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How to Overtake the Indian Armour ?

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Either you are really ignorant or you have not been reading this thread at all. This has been explained many times, NASR is an insurance policy and will be used by Pakistan if she is on the verge of a collapse.

Now that being said, i dont think Pakistan will need to use NASR looking at the current balance of power in South Asia. Seeing how the level of balance stands between both India and Pakistan, Pakistan is perfectly capable of defending herself against India. India still does not has the numbers and the level of technology that is required to effectively tame Pakistan's war machinery.


It just seems ridiculous that a country on the verge of collapse will invite anhilation ... your logic says, you fire NASR on a group of IBG out of desperation due to their incursion deep into pakistan when your war machinery is on "verge of collapse"

So if you are on verge of collapse you fire a series of tactical nukes of IBG, you better fire your strategic ones too ... because if you miss to take out even one of or nuke assets remaining in the country .. you are inviting for a full blown nuke response from india...

So now you guys should declare ... if IBG's are knocking on our door we will start a full scale nuke war because your NASR is really not going to be insurance... its rather an invitation for Indian strategic nukes....
 
A badazz volley of A-100,SH-1,M109A5,Pantars,AZAR,and other arty assets plus AKs,T-80UD/84,AZs ,tye-84s backed by gunships n PAF are enough...keepin in mind tht we have an "offensive-defense" strat.. NASR will be used in some sort of emergency situation n in retaliation india cant launch stat nukes coz we wouldnt have nuked indian cities/soil ... but on our own soil ... NASR will do the same job an MRLS does... and im sure indian govt is tht dumb to launch stat nukes n want retaliation...


But im sure situation wont come to tht(us launchin tac nukes).
 
you dont use ballistic cruise missiles to wipe out indiv. tanks; the recently tested battle field missiles like the Nasr aim to fulfill that role....they can be rapidly deployed on eastern sector if and when need arises --at any time.


hell -- there are so many conventional and unconventional means. A 155mm improvised arty shell packed with ball bearings and shrapnel and a shaped charge will blow an indian tank to kingdom come --and one could pull that off for less than twenty US dollars

Artillery is not accurate enough and has too long a response time to actually hit moving targets like tanks.
you cant jugaad an artillery shell to add ball bearings etc to it.
the idea of putting ball bearings in a arty shell is an old one. shells in the 1800s had ball bearings in them
tank armor is heavy enough to stop such shells. lighter vehicles and infantry are however goners.


Nasr while a great achievement just raises the stakes too high. Using the nuclear warhead means nuclear war and we know that nobody wins that.
 
Artillery is not accurate enough and has too long a response time to actually hit moving targets like tanks.
you cant jugaad an artillery shell to add ball bearings etc to it.
the idea of putting ball bearings in a arty shell is an old one. shells in the 1800s had ball bearings in them
tank armor is heavy enough to stop such shells. lighter vehicles and infantry are however goners.


Nasr while a great achievement just raises the stakes too high. Using the nuclear warhead means nuclear war and we know that nobody wins that.

Well we have precision guided arty ... anti tank cluster bombs... gunships.... PA armour .... anti tank missiles .... UCAVs .... anti tank mines....IFVs.... PAF cover.... pick ur poison bro.
 
I am sure all of Pakistan weapons like cluster bombs warehouses etc are all within reach easily for India to destroy quickly with Pakistan geographical location.
 
Well we have precision guided arty ... anti tank cluster bombs... gunships.... PA armour .... anti tank missiles .... UCAVs .... anti tank mines....IFVs.... PAF cover.... pick ur poison bro.

you are not the only one with those things are you?
your opponents also have the arty...anti tank cluster bombs...gunships...Armour...anti tank missiles...etc etc.

the question is, will we be able to put ours in place faster and in large enough numbers to overcome your home field advantage

naming and mentioning weapons is futile unless the opponent does not have them and you do.
 
you are not the only one with those things are you?
your opponents also have the arty...anti tank cluster bombs...gunships...Armour...anti tank missiles...etc etc.

the question is, will we be able to put ours in place faster and in large enough numbers to overcome your home field advantage

naming and mentioning weapons is futile unless the opponent does not have them and you do.

India doesnt posses precision guided arty,ucav,IFV... also abt other things... we also posses them n in almost equal numbers... how do u lan to ovr run them all ? by a miracle... i guess.
 
you dont use ballistic cruise missiles to wipe out indiv. tanks; the recently tested battle field missiles like the Nasr aim to fulfill that role....they can be rapidly deployed on eastern sector if and when need arises --at any time.


hell -- there are so many conventional and unconventional means. A 155mm improvised arty shell packed with ball bearings and shrapnel and a shaped charge will blow an indian tank to kingdom come --and one could pull that off for less than twenty US dollars

A.Zulfiqar , i ain't suggesting the use of Raad or Babur against IGBs as it is not as effective and not as economical as those 155mm improvised shells. We can use these cruise missile capability to take out the vital C&C centers as well as the communication infrastructure leaving those IGBs blinded.
 
A couple of things..
NATO forces knew throughout the 80's.. that eventually Soviet armor.. due to sheer numbers and improving weaponry would break open their lines. There was no way to match it tank for tank, shell for shell. Technology for technology.

However, late 80's.. USAF did a study on the Soviet logistics system and found that the Soviet supply system was made of some key hubs. If these key hubs could be taken out.hubs such as fuel supply stations and forward ammo dumps. The Soviet thrust would grind to a halt. The study was called "checkmate".

A similar approach may be adopted or may already be adopted or planned by the PAF. It is crystal clear that India CANNOT EVER be matched in terms of numbers and perhaps technology as well.
What must be adopted are smarter tactics, and a constant lookout for possible weakness that would negate the numerical and technological advantages.

What must also be understood, that unlike europe which has certain depth for fallback, Pakistan has none.
Any intrusion deeper than a few deca kilometers will threaten key industrial, logistical, population and infrastructure center's.
The effectiveness of an Indian force to penetrate this fault line is increasing exponentially with time.
The PA knows this, SPD knows this..
It is , whether anybody likes it or not.. very clear to the establishment that a determined Indian attack will be through within a few days if not hours.

One must also consider the PA doctrine, since the 80's and Brasstacks.. The PA is now convinced that its immediate goal is to slow down a certain IA advance, grab as much Indian territory as possible ..then hope that the diplomatic circles can get them a ceasefire.
Had the establishment been smarter , it would have slowly shifted logistical and industrial center's west, into the bad lands of Balochistan. Where there was possibility of falling back. However.. by their own folly and with a little encouragement by the perceived threat. Balochistan isnt going to be as welcoming to another encroachment by the PA.. Although efforts are underway to move the communication and logistical lines further back.

As ridiculous as it sounded.. The IA is moving to improve its mobility on the plains of Punjab, and its airborne element... but more on that later. The Idea of Cutting Pakistan in two (breaking it has been done already) via a thrust in the south.. blockading Karachi and perhaps cutting if off entirely.. the three main highway's.. and a rail artery are within a 180km from the Border.
The alternate link runs through balcohistan.. an area that can be made hostile for any resupply routes by the enemy through conventional and unconventional means.
Fuel and weapons may still arrive in Pakistan via alternate ports that may be defended for two weeks or so(if PA manages to hold its ground).

Then comes the captial, relatively open for Aerial attacks.. and if the Shakargarh bulge is taken.. a highway away from being overtaken.

Now that the likely scenario has been laid out.
The weight falls.. yet again.. on the PAF to save the day.
It must survive against insurmountable odds, and deliver precise blows that must cause any Indian IBG to slow down in its tracks.
It does not need to keep air superiority all over Pakistan, Just prevent key logistical lines of the PA from failing. These are fairly well protected in the Punjab.. but in the Thar and Cholistan areas.. and in Sindh.. they are well exposed to air attack.
the IAF will not have an easy time supporting its troops directly as the PA is in possession of many and very effective MANPADS and AAA. Which will extract losses from the IAF no matter what..as the nature of the Battlefield is as such.

However, whilst the reserves from the PA pour in.. the PAF must ensure that it survives long enough to make sure that these troops reach the fight quick.. and that their weapons do so as well.

PakMil can NEVER hope to annihilate, obliterate or do anything "ate" otherwise to the Indian Armour beyond what it is capable of.
What it must ensure is to keep it at bay long enough for diplomacy to prevail.
Problem is, if Pakistan has already lost on the Diplomatic front, then what?
Then sirs.. Weapons like the NASR come in.
However.. that is a new game.
A single NASR will invite a similar response on a greater scale from India.. We will retaliate with a strike on some airfield..
They will retaliate with a strike on GHQ or AHQ.. and we launch it all.. and they launch it all.
And the Indian subcontinent will be a quiet neighborhood for the next 300 years.

A balanced Article..

The key remains.. WHy Would India Cross a border?

Only if it is attacked in another 26/11 fashion..

Otherwise. It will continue to work on its economy
 
India doesnt posses precision guided arty,ucav,IFV... also abt other things... we also posses them n in almost equal numbers... how do u lan to ovr run them all ? by a miracle... i guess.

That's where air power comes in, Large number of air superiority fighters with Air Interdiction power overcomes most of the hurdles of MLRS and forward artillery, the question is how will you contain breach of LOC in 25-30 different locations , We will have enough strike packages for Air interdiction, and enough CAS support to support IBG's for initial 48 hrs of IBG's until the Armored corp breaks the LOC at 3 - 5 sectors. Then its all SEAD missions by ground attack a/c's and chopping down supply routes by strike missions.

India is still not ready for cold start scenario until
> we have atleast 75 -100 MMRCA a/c's
>additional 80 Super MKI's
> Forward air support Helicoptors for IBG's and Armored corp
> Operational Nirbhay in large quantities
> MKI's with Brahmos capacity
> Atleast 100 point defence fighter
> 3 additional Phalcons,
 
After "carefully" reading 11 pages of trolls and posts that don't make much sense to my naive understanding. Only Santro baba's post worths replying to.

@Santro , i am getting the picture and it raises concerns about the Naval blockade , lets forget about the IGBs for a minute as we might be able to mobilize more assets on the ground and in the air than on our shores.

Please explain the operational possibility of such a blockade , what is our window of opportunity and what assets we can use to avoid or defeat it ?

C-602 Batteries ?
 
That's where air power comes in, Large number of air superiority fighters with Air Interdiction power overcomes most of the hurdles of MLRS and forward artillery



the question is how will you contain breach of LOC in 25-30 different locations , We will have enough strike packages for Air interdiction, and enough CAS support to support IBG's for initial 48 hrs of IBG's until the Armored corp breaks the LOC at 3 - 5 sectors. Then its all SEAD missions by ground attack a/c's and chopping down supply routes by strike missions.


It would be relatively easier for us to defend... We will also scatter our jets.. plus SAMs like SPADA,RB,HQ-9.....not to forget we have almost equal number of tanks ,... which r more advanced... and than we have numbers on our side with inhouse productio of A-100,Panters and new indigenous arty guns n the rest of advanced precisio strike arty systems.

India is still not ready for cold start scenario until
> we have atleast 75 -100 MMRCA a/c's
>additional 80 Super MKI's

By the time u will have MMRCAs we will be also fielding 150 FC-20s.. 64 F-16 blk 52+ (Might buy more according to chief of air staff)... 250-300 JF-17 blk-IIIs...

> Forward air support Helicoptors for IBG's and Armored corp

Cobras,super cobras n ATAK -T-129 helis.

> Operational Nirbhay in large quantities
> MKI's with Brahmos capacity

Baburs and Raad ALCMs.

> Atleast 100 point defence fighter
> 3 additional Phalcons

And we will have 8 AWACS... 4 SAAB,4 Korakoram Eagles.
 
In my earlier post I stated a scenario where the IBG;s thrust would be in two separate modes, light Ibgs, with 30 odd tanks fast moving IFVS and smaller support vehicles, and heavy Ibgs with around 50 tanks and larger support vehicles, if there are such 28 odd IBG's inside pakistani Airspace, are you going to fire 28 nukes on Indian IBG's??? with the 3 strike corp's still waiting in India for offensives ?

NASR seems to be the only answer for the pakistani members...

lets reverse the equation ... if pakistan had the opportunity to field say 30 odd IBG's against India and decisive majority in air power to support the IBG's with Air interdiction, full close air support and 20 strike packages available to operate every hour on ground ... do you think pakistan would have the advantage then????

---------- Post added at 02:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 AM ----------



Unfortunately .. you need a navy to exploit that red line.. and please spare chinese piggy back ride
and we dont have one right???????
 
we don't waste our daytime fantasizing about annihilating other countries. That's the pastime of our beloved neighbors during blackouts.

Humm. Good.

And the pace with which PK is degenerating, we don't even need to lift a finger.

OK. Can see the reason and the excuse that can be used in future for not implementing Cold Start. Looks OK to me.;)

You guys are quite adept at killing each other already, your enemies just need to stand and watch

Looking at your colorful red corridor one can say the same to you too but anyways. I will take that as some future excuse.:)

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:28 AM ----------

After "carefully" reading 11 pages of trolls and posts that don't make much sense to my naive understanding. Only Santro baba's post worths replying to.

@Santro , i am getting the picture and it raises concerns about the Naval blockade , lets forget about the IGBs for a minute as we might be able to mobilize more assets on the ground and in the air than on our shores.

Please explain the operational possibility of such a blockade , what is our window of opportunity and what assets we can use to avoid or defeat it ?

C-602 Batteries ?

In my opinion a potent and effective submarine force with some good numbers of advance FAC's like Azmat class and reasonable air support can do the job.
 
To counter the column of Indian armor Pakistan have many option available
a a short list
a100.jpg

A-100 mrls equip with anti armor warhead
apc equip with ATGM
Nasr bbm
helicopter gunship

in future
Along with this shoulder launch atgm of turkish origin omtas :) in the shoulder of die hard pakistani soldier :smokin:
 
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