How to defend Brahmos?- American analysis.

[Sine Nomine]

On one hand Indians were boasting that Pakistani CM-400AKG will be unable to penetrate carrier defense of IN using this weapon because of massive ECM capabilities but on other hand you are boasting that Brahoms a copy of P-800 will be able to damage USN carrier lol.

 

[vsdave2302]

Right! But as per the DRDO, that speed will be increased to Mach 5 with a new engine under development.

Excellent if true?

Can you provide the link.

Actually the engine of hypersonic Brahmos is also ready but the issue is materials that can protect missile electronics and seekers from high temperature generated from friction of air at hypersonic velocity. So unless that material is realized, Brahmos shall not be able to cruise at hypersonic velocity , I guess.

 

[OrionHunter]

Excellent if true?

Can you provide the link.

Actually the engine of hypersonic Brahmos is also ready but the issue is materials that can protect missile electronics and seekers from high temperature generated from friction of air at hypersonic velocity. So unless that material is realized, Brahmos shall not be able to cruise at hypersonic velocity , I guess.

I guess these problems would be sorted out. Check out the second last paragraph here....

Press Releases :: BrahMos.com

 

[vsdave2302]

I guess these problems would be sorted out. Check out the second last paragraph here....

Press Releases :: BrahMos.com

Yes, but it is not mini brahmos but hypersonic brahmos. Problem with materials is there for test. Russians have some material which can sustain mach 7 speed. let is wait and see.

 

[ayesha.a]

On one hand Indians were boasting that Pakistani CM-400AKG will be unable to penetrate carrier defense of IN using this weapon because of massive ECM capabilities but on other hand you are boasting that Brahoms a copy of P-800 will be able to damage USN carrier lol.

It's not just ECM capabilities - Pakistan's launch platform (the aircraft) will first have to get within firing radius of IN's aircraft carrier. Considering the fact that the carrier is very well defended against aerial threats, both by SAMs on the escorting fleet, as well as the carrier's own very potent fighter jets, that is a very remote possibility for PAF. Even if that happens, CM-400AKG does not have the terminal maneuverability that Brahmos has, to be able to defeat all the point defence systems on the carrier.

I'm not saying it is impossible - of course any AshM is a threat to a ship. But Brahmos should worry PN more than CM-400AKG should worry IN, because of the defences we have against aircrafts (which PN lacks).

From the POV of the USN, they have enough assets to counter both the IN's or PLAN's carrier based fighters. So for them, which one is more of a threat is only based on the missiles' own capabilities. It is taken for granted that they have enough super hornets, E-2s etc to ward off our mig-29Ks or PLAN's J-33s.

 

[Kinetic]

• Not intelligent

This statement is not correct I read this on Janes in 2005 on Keypublishing... After that they have upgraded the missile a lot....





excerpt from Janes missiles and rockets, oct 1 2005.
..............
For that final 'all-up' test,
the missile's intended target, a decommissioned ship,
was hit by 3,000 kg of BrahMos, including a 200 kg
warhead, travelling at almost Mach 3 - and was chopped
in half.

The significance of BrahMos lies in its very
high-speed and intelligent behaviour. Each missile has
been designed to operate as part of a salvoed attack,
with a datalink net between the inflight missiles
updating them on target co-ordinates plus the status
of the other weapons in the attack. BrahMos's high
speed makes it a difficult target to defeat - Western
intelligence agencies believe it may also have a
low-probability of intercept (LPI) 'stealthy' radar
option available to it, adding to its chances of
reaching the target.


India will initially deploy a ship-launched BrahMos
system, but work on an air-launched variant is also
underway. This has not moved forward according to the
original timetable (which called for trial launches in
2004) but the BrahMos team says that only funding and
a requirement are needed - the missile design is
ready. Launch aircraft for the BrahMos, at least in
Indian air force service, would be the Su-30MKI
'Flanker'. But beyond this move from airborne- to
surface launch comes an even more important
development - a land-attack missile.

BrahMos thread - Part 2 [Archive] - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums

 

[ayesha.a]

You're going to hit a maneuvering ship with a GPS guided missile...... What??? Brahmos will use a radar seeker during its anti-ship runs:

Midcourse - ins

Terminal - radar

BrahMos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Radar guidance can be fooled using our EW assets

SatNav on an anti-ship missile. GPS gets you to an area, our LRASM uses it too, not a specific ship. Radar guidance is used for the terminal attack and it is defeatable

Could you explain why sat based navigation cannot be used in the entire trajectory? My GPS enabled cell phone can track almost every step I take when running. From what I know, the resolution of GPS even for civilians is in the order of about a meter. So theoretically, shouldn't satellite navigation be enough to guide the missile all the way to the ship?(Since ships are all bigger than a few meters.) Even if the ship is maneuvering, shouldn't the Indian navy's monitoring satellite (they launched one recently) be able to keep track of it, since ships are relatively slow moving objects?

(I know you are right, that most missiles use radar navigation for terminal guidance. I'm just wondering why.)

Also, is there any way to "soft attack" satellite based navigation? I mean, other than launching ASAT missiles, is it possible to do any sort of electronic attacks to disrupt the communication of missiles or ships to satellites?

 

[Sine Nomine]

CM-400AKG does not have the terminal maneuverability that Brahmos has

How are you so much sure about that CM-400kg lacks that critical quality and about half of Pakistani Defense capabilities are not known we can not just talk on internet data.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

1. Why and how does the US encounter Brahmos?

2. Has no one paid attention to my EW threads? Hard-kill options are always augmented by EW assets. Nulka, SLQ-32, we have options.

3. This isn't our first time playing the super/hypersonic game. We are well trained and equipped to deal with high-speed weapons. Hell, that was the forte of the Soviets.

Brahmos isn't the only high-speed missile around. Some of our target drones, targets used to test ship defenses, are faster than Brahmos. We knock them out, and yes, they are maneuverable too, we'll deal with this threat too.

The analysis is fine, but this is hardly a problem for a navy that deals with such threats on a consistent basis.

And on the laser. Let's see... 5-7 mach versus the speed of light in a medium. I think I'll take the laser.

Here's my non-EW response to Brahmos:

RIM-174 Standard ERAM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Laser changes everything. Eventually the only weapon capable of targeting them will be other lasers. Inevitably they'll end up space based. At that time Navy as we know it will disappear, used only for low level conflicts.

 

[ayesha.a]

How are you so much sure about that CM-400kg lacks that critical quality and about half of Pakistani Defense capabilities are not known we can not just talk on internet data.

I can only comment using publically released information. That is implicitly understood. That applies to you too. So if Pakistani missiles have secret dragon slaying capabilities, or Indian missiles can play "Crysis", neither of us can be aware of that. We can only discuss based on what we know.

Claiming secret capabilities can be done by both sides.

 

[gambit]

If you didn't know, the active radar seeker locks on only in the final phase by which time it would be too late to react.

I do know.

A missile's radar lock do not happen instantaneously. At least one sweep cycle is required, but if we are talking about a low altitude flight, that mean the Brah-less radar must be active prior to it breaking the horizon of the area to detect anything. I pointed this out a long time ago. Were you asleep in my class ?

Radar is line-of-sight (LOS) limited.

Horizon calculator - radar and visual

The higher the flight altitude, the sooner the missile will expose its own radar emissions to the defender. Speed is actually the negative factor here when it comes to lower altitude. Too fast and by the time the Brah-less break the horizon of the general area, its radar will not have enough information to target anything, even as large as an aircraft carrier.

 

[Storm Force]

Brahmos will utterly destroy Indian enemies.

None of them have the defense of s Ashley Burke Sam capability at sea.

Indian naval power is immense now in this region.

 

[Kinetic]

Brahmos will utterly destroy Indian enemies.

None of them have the defense of s Ashley Burke Sam capability at sea.

Indian naval power is immense now in this region.

Brahmos is almost 10 years old... now this is coming....

 

[ayesha.a]

I do know.

A missile's radar lock do not happen instantaneously. At least one sweep cycle is required, but if we are talking about a low altitude flight, that mean the Brah-less radar must be active prior to it breaking the horizon of the area to detect anything. I pointed this out a long time ago. Were you asleep in my class ?

Radar is line-of-sight (LOS) limited.

Horizon calculator - radar and visual

The higher the flight altitude, the sooner the missile will expose its own radar emissions to the defender. Speed is actually the negative factor here when it comes to lower altitude. Too fast and by the time the Brah-less break the horizon of the general area, its radar will not have enough information to target anything, even as large as an aircraft carrier.

Typically, how long is one sweep cycle?

 

[ptltejas]

vsdave2302
thanx lot for nice link too00.........