How to beat the "1971Civil War " Psychological Syndrome !

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I am not sure about that. Most of the media in Pakistan is based in Karachi. Media is what spreads and makes influence. Most of Karachi is Indian. I give you one example of increasing Indian influence. In my family I grew up eating meat pilau, karah ghosht, chapli kebabs etc. Then few years ago I began to hear of Biriani. I did not even first know what it was. Next thing I hear it is Pakistan's national dish. Wtf?

This biriani fever was brought from India. Today pilau takes second place to apparently Pakistan's national dish. Then have you seen PTV classical music? It's all shyte imported fron India. That form of music is alien to Pakistani provinces. It's from Hindu and Utter Pradesh region of India.

Why not rubab as national instrument of Pakistan? Instead of some Indian trash as peddled by PTV which is dominated by certain community. Most of PTV's celebs are from India and over the decades have made peoples of Pakistan "Indian".


Anwar Maqsood Hameedi (Urdu: انور مقصود حمیدی) popularly known as Anwar Maqsood is a Pakistani scriptwriter, television presenter, satirist, humorist, and infrequent actor. He was well known for his drama write-ups for PTV in the late 1970s and 1980s.[1]

Early life and family
Anwar Maqsood was born on 7 September 1940, in Hyderabad State. He studied at the Gulbarga Trust School in Aurangabad. His large family migrated to Karachi in 1948, after the creation of Pakistan in 1947. His childhood years were spent in PIB Colony, Karachi with his siblings and family.[2]

Agreed for the most part. The main difference however is that over the last few years I have noticed many Pakistani families (both in Pakistan and the UK) who used to watch indian stuff, slowly stopping it all together. indian/bollywood mania is NOWHERE near as popular with Pakistanis now like it was in the 1980s/1990s. This is anecdotal evidence so I could be wrong.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Hadiya Kiyani

I love this woman. She can sing in score of languages and pulls it off.

 

[Baibars_1260]

Most migrants in Karachi came between 1948-58. Well after Pakistan was made. So did this guy [1948] but will claim we owe them a debt. I don't know how that works. Migrants want us to thank them.

Am I missing some thing here

Some migrants can be useful.
Abdul Qadeer Khan for example.
In the 1960s communal riots in much of Eastern India's core industrial, mining, steel and heavy engineering belt sent a wave of engineering manpower as refugees into Pakistan.

Fantasizing...but Pakistan could have used Abdul Kalam, Zahoor Qasim, Saleem Ali and others.

Jewish refugees from Europe helped the USA scientific and engineering manpower pool.

 

[peagle]

Honestly, your post has gone a bit on the over-thinking side. I can see your intentions, and it does make sense, perhaps the formulation of your core arguments could have been better.

Besides the realities of the situation at the time, everyone somehow forgets that Pakistan was a new nation-state. It matters because as a nation it was still finding its feet, so mistakes were a natural part of that evolution, external pressures, a distance of 1000 miles, with hostile India, did not help the matters.

Pakistan got a lot of things right, in East Pakistan, that simply does not get mentioned.
Their parliament building was approved and began construction by Pakistan before 1971, it was part of a plan to develop a second capital in East Pakistan, as part of the process to reduce their sense of neglect, but the process to find remedies was in place. Things do take time.

Pakistan built a new port, in process of approving the construction of a nuclear power plant, there are so many examples, that I would need to revisit for sake of accuracy, but anyone can spend a few hours researching and will find the right answers if they are looking. Please do not search for the established arguments, search your own arguments, and people will find new answers.

I feel no shame, except sadness for those who died and suffered, on all side. I wish I could take that back, I so sorely wish that. But, anything else, hell I am extremely proud of what Pakistan has achieved, very proud indeed. I know you said it's been discussed already, but, sorry couldn't help adding the above lol, because it never gets mentioned.

6. Patriots ( Type 1) constantly remember primarily the enemy involvement in the Civil War. It is the enemy on whom the blame lies, and our former brethren are entirely innocent, ; our own follies not withstanding.
We must therefore :
(a) Restore the faith and trust in our former brethren and take back our territory.
(b) Avenge 1971 by causing an enemy territory to secede.

I have never come across this way of thinking in my life, never. The first part yes, where a large portion of the blame is placed on India, but wanting to be united or to take back, never. Not even a hint of such thinking.

I cannot speak of your experiences, maybe you have heard this thinking here, as I have a couple of times, but that means nothing. You get odd individuals here, who do not know anything, but they get a chance to think out loud, things they would never repeat in normal society because they would be laughed at.
In real life, from my experiences, the thinking in your statement is non-existent.

7. Patriots (Type 2):
We will never forgive, never forget the treachery of our former brethren, We will never forgive, never forget, the "defeat" our enemy inflicted on us and we will avenge even if it takes 1000 years, or even if we mutually annihilate each other.

On the contrary, most views I have come across are that we did not treat them well, placing an overwhelming burden on our own heads, which is simply redicilous, but it is the predominant view i have encountered, a sense of guilt, that maybe we did not try hard enough. Not that we did bad things as claimed.

I do not think there are two types of patriots among Pakistanis, regarding Bangladesh, people have mixed views, where certain things hold more value than others, depending on who you speak with.

But, broadly speaking, it spells out as some sort of guilt, combined with sadness that we could have parted on better terms. Never in my life, have I experience a hint of the desire for unification.

In my youth, I had vivid imaginations about uniting with Afghanistan, which went into a fair amount of detail, even the basic structure of our constitution, but even a dreamer like me never imagined such a thing with Bangladesh. I think we wish them well, and hope and wish we can be close again, one day, with mutual respect, not Pakistan going over on its knees with an apology.

Regarding Afghanistan, I've learnt, actually only in the past decade that it is wise to keep them at an arm's length. But, that's for another day and another topic.

I love this woman.

I thought you would stop, after the full stop
I wouldn't have blamed you lol

A serious Apology for off-topic, but, let's not fight love

 

[Baibars_1260]

But, broadly speaking, it spells out as some sort of guilt, combined with sadness that we could have parted on better terms. Never in my life, have I experience a hint of the desire for unification.

Thanks for your imputs.. I should have done a better job explaining the objective of the OP, though I believe the title is indicative.
Everyone has different feelings, and these need to be discussed;
which was the secondary purpose of the OP .
@PakistaniAtBahrain is still suffering the trauma and if you check the post below a very soulful and sad video has been linked within. The post also attributed the Civil War to the fact that we were not good Muslims.
I respect the views and everyone is entitled to their own, but such sentiments only cause mental anguish.
It is precisely this kind of syndrome that we must address.

go through the trauma daily. there is hardly a day that goes by where i dont read Naseer Turabi's ghazal about East Pakistan leaving us. that ghazal became the title track for the hit show Humsafar. just facing the facts in a post here or there isnt going to make the trauma go away.

Nice poem, and I have heard this before.
Just to let you know there is no ( to my knowledge) any matching poem in Bengali lamenting the break up. In fact any poems you search and find are best left untranslated.
Unless you would like to know what our former brethren really think of us.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Honestly, your post has gone a bit on the over-thinking side. I can see your intentions, and it does make sense, perhaps the formulation of your core arguments could have been better.

Besides the realities of the situation at the time, everyone somehow forgets that Pakistan was a new nation-state. It matters because as a nation it was still finding its feet, so mistakes were a natural part of that evolution, external pressures, a distance of 1000 miles, with hostile India, did not help the matters.

Pakistan got a lot of things right, in East Pakistan, that simply does not get mentioned.
Their parliament building was approved and began construction by Pakistan before 1971, it was part of a plan to develop a second capital in East Pakistan, as part of the process to reduce their sense of neglect, but the process to find remedies was in place. Things do take time.

Pakistan built a new port, in process of approving the construction of a nuclear power plant, there are so many examples, that I would need to revisit for sake of accuracy, but anyone can spend a few hours researching and will find the right answers if they are looking. Please do not search for the established arguments, search your own arguments, and people will find new answers.

I feel no shame, except sadness for those who died and suffered, on all side. I wish I could take that back, I so sorely wish that. But, anything else, hell I am extremely proud of what Pakistan has achieved, very proud indeed. I know you said it's been discussed already, but, sorry couldn't help adding the above lol, because it never gets mentioned.




On the contrary, most views I have come across are that we did not treat them well, placing an overwhelming burden on our own heads, which is simply redicilous, but it is the predominant view i have encountered, a sense of guilt, that maybe we did not try hard enough. Not that we did bad things as claimed.

I do not think there are two types of patriots among Pakistanis, regarding Bangladesh, people have mixed views, where certain things hold more value than others, depending on who you speak with.

But, broadly speaking, it spells out as some sort of guilt, combined with sadness that we could have parted on better terms. Never in my life, have I experience a hint of the desire for unification.

In my youth, I had vivid imaginations about uniting with Afghanistan, which went into a fair amount of detail, even the basic structure of our constitution, but even a dreamer like me never imagined such a thing with Bangladesh. I think we wish them well, and hope and wish we can be close again, one day, with mutual respect, not Pakistan going over on its knees with an apology.

Regarding Afghanistan, I've learnt, actually only in the past decade that it is wise to keep them at an arm's length. But, that's for another day and another topic.


I thought you would stop, after the full stop
I wouldn't have blamed you lol

A serious Apology for off-topic, but, let's not fight love

Apparently she is Indian and sings in Hindi. Will these guys ever stop.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

You are obviously a highly intelligent, well-read and articulate poster. I pretty much agree with most of the things you say as you explain your points succinctly and you back them up with GENUINE, CREDIBLE and IRREFUTABLE facts and evidence.

Just wanted to ask was what now for Pakistan's international relations? I know our relations with China and somewhat with Turkey too are of paramount importance but I also think we need to increase relations with Iran and mend those with Afghanistan. As both Iran and Afghanistan are Muslim nations that border Pakistan, whatever happens in those countries internally generally does affect Pakistan as history has shown.

@Baibars_1260 what are your thoughts?

He is an Indian false flagger.

- PRTP GWD

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Better this, better that,
do you people ever get out of your fantasies?



At that time China and India had similar levels of development. Please stop your BS.

Nope, totally wrong story. Ayub khan was fearing against Chinese aggression. The same reason, he did not support to Chinese. And also, Chinese didnt take over AP and ladakh... False information.

Pakistan was put under military sanctions by its principal supplier USA, from 1965 to 1982, but after the war..... Till now had already supplied advanced military tanks, aircrafts etc...

Between September and November 1971, Indira Gandhi visited every major European country,

Yes, because more then 10 millions refugees crossed the border and entered into India. Situation was too bad and she wanted to convey message and take help from as she can.

But Pakistan was darling of US and west, and the finally we needed to sign a treaty with Soviet. Not sure, what is wrong ¿

 

[Baibars_1260]

Nope, totally wrong story. Ayub khan was fearing against Chinese aggression. The same reason, he did not support to Chinese. And also, Chinese didnt take over AP and ladakh... False information.

Pakistan was put under military sanctions by its principal supplier USA, from 1965 to 1982, but after the war..... Till now had already supplied advanced military tanks, aircrafts etc...

Between September and November 1971, Indira Gandhi visited every major European country,

Yes, because more then 10 millions refugees crossed the border and entered into India. Situation was too bad and she wanted to convey message and take help from as she can.

But Pakistan was darling of US and west, and the finally we needed to sign a treaty with Soviet. Not sure, what is wrong ¿

Waiting for your answers to questions below:

How to beat the "1971Civil War " Psychological Syndrome !

I sympathize. Your psychological trauma goes back 1000 years and the last trauma in the third battle of Panipat is so severe that in Marathi you have coined a phrase to symbolize total ruin with the word Panipat. So instead of saying you have ruined us , you say : "You have done a Panipat on...

defence.pk

 

[Baibars_1260]

He is an Indian false flagger.

Please report all false flaggers to the moderator.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

So let's discuss the 1971 aftermath:
@Raj-Hindustani @Jackdaws @Chhatrapati @achhu
@PAKISTANFOREVER

1. India went nuclear in 1974 . What were the reasons?
(a) Did India fear a rearming Pakistan?
(b ) Any other threats ?
(c ) Was the nuclear test intended to deflect opinion from the Jayaprakash Narayan total revolution movement?

2. Why did the Indira Gandhi government come under such pressure from the Jayaprakash Narayan movement in Bihar in 1974 ?

3. Why was India as a victor of 1971 war so heavily impacted economically that a total revolution was imminent?

4. Why did India continue the refugee tax for three years after the Bangladeshi refugees had gone home ?

5. The Anandpur Sahib resolution demanding special privileges for Sikhs was launched in 1973 ? Why would Sikhs whose Generals were showered with honors for delivering India its "1000 year victory " suddenly feel the need for more privileges?

6. Why did India declare an Emergency in 1975 ?

7. Why did India keep insisting on renewing post and communications links with Pakistan?

1.India went nuclear in 1974 . What were the reasons?
(a) Did India fear a rearming Pakistan?
(b ) Any other threats ?
(c ) Was the nuclear test intended to deflect opinion from the Jayaprakash Narayan total revolution movement?

=> Chinese were the main reason. however, plan was started from early 1950s only.

Rest questions are irrelevant to the topic and most are internal and political issues.

If I talk about Pakistan after the war then even the situation was not good enough. But I will no go to your internal issues..

 

[Baibars_1260]

1.India went nuclear in 1974 . What were the reasons?
(a) Did India fear a rearming Pakistan?
(b ) Any other threats ?
(c ) Was the nuclear test intended to deflect opinion from the Jayaprakash Narayan total revolution movement?

=> Chinese were the main reason.

Rest questions are irrelevant to the topic and most are internal and political issues.

If I talk about Pakistan after the war then even the situation was not good enough. But I will no go to your internal issues..

Ok here are some questions related:

1. Why did India hold the Simla Summit just 7 months after the war ?

2. Why is there no mention of " Bangladesh " in the agreement?

3. Why is there no mention of the famous December 16, Surrender?

Refer to the link:

Text of the Simla Agreement:
( Does this look like a victory document? Compare it to other Armistice documents such as signed by Germany at Versailles.)

SIMLA AGREEMENT:
02, July 1972

The Government of India and the Government of Pakistanare resolved that the two countries put an end to the conflict and confrontation that have hitherto marred their relations and work for the promotion of a friendly and harmonious relationship and the establishment of durable peace in the subcontinent so that both countries may henceforth devote their resources and energies to the pressing task of advancing the welfare of their people.
In order to achieve this objective, the Government of India and the Government of Pakistan have agreed as follows:
(i) That the principles and purposes of the Charter of the United Nations shall govern the relations between the two countries.
(ii) That the two countries are resolved to settle their differences by peaceful means through bilateral negotiations or by any other peaceful means mutually agreed upon between them. Pending the final settlement of any of the problems between the two countries, neither side shall unilaterally alter the situation and both shall prevent the organization, assistance or encouragement of any acts detrimental to the maintenance of peace and harmonious relations.
(iii) That the prerequisite for reconciliation, good neighborliness and durable peace between them is a commitment by both the countries to peaceful coexistence respect for each others territorial integrity and sovereignty and noninterference in each others internal affairs, on the basis of equality and mutual benefit. That the basic issues and causes of conflict which have bedeviled the relations between the two countries for the last 25 years shall be resolved by peaceful means.

(iv) That they shall always respect each others national unity, territorial integrity, political independence and sovereign equality.

(v) That in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, they will refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of each other.
Both governments will take all steps within their power to prevent hostile propaganda directed against each other. Both countries will encourage the dissemination of such information as would promote the development of friendly relations between them.
In order progressively to restore and normalize relations between the two countries step by step, it was agreed that:
(i) Steps shall be taken to resume communications, postal, telegraphic, sea, land, including border posts, and air links, including over flights.
(ii) Appropriate steps shall be taken to promote travel facilities for the nationals of the other country.

(iii) Trade and cooperation in economic and other agreed fields will be resumed as far as possible.
(iv) Exchange in the fields of science and culture will be promoted.

In this connection delegations from the two countries will meet from time to time to work out the necessary details.

In order to initiate the process of the establishment of durable peace, both the governments agree that:

(i) Indian and Pakistani forces shall be withdrawn to their side of the international border.

(ii) In Jammu and Kashmir, the line of control resulting from the ceasefire of 17 December 1971, shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognized position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally, irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this line.

(iii) The withdrawals shall commence upon entry into force of this agreement and shall be completed within a period of 30 days thereof.

This agreement will be subject to ratification by both countries in accordance with their respective constitutional procedures, and will come into force with effect from the date on which the instruments of ratification are exchanged.
Both governments agree that their respective heads will meet again at a mutually convenient time in the future and that in the meanwhile the representatives of the two sides will meet to discuss further the modalities and arrangements for the establishment of durable peace and normalization of relations, including the questions of repatriation of prisoners of war and civilian internees, a final settlement of Jammu and Kashmir and the resumption of diplomatic relations.

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto
President
Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Indira Gandhi
Prime Minister
Republic of India

 

[peagle]

Thanks for your imputs.. I should have done a better job explaining the objective of the OP, though I believe the title is indicative.
Everyone has different feelings, and these need to be discussed;
which was the secondary purpose of the OP .
@PakistaniAtBahrain is still suffering the trauma and if you check the post below a very soulful and sad video has been linked within. The post also attributed the Civil War to the fact that we were not good Muslims.
I respect the views and everyone is entitled to their own, but such sentiments only cause mental anguish.
It is precisely this kind of syndrome that we must address.


Nice poem, and I have heard this before.
Just to let you know there is no ( to my knowledge) any matching poem in Bengali lamenting the break up. In fact any poems you search and find are best left untranslated.
Unless you would like to know what our former brethren really think of us.

I wouldn't say you did a poor job, because you are very articulate and knowledgeable, that's why I always enjoy reading your posts, whether I agree or not.

Perhaps the post touched on issues that hold no traction among the majority of Pakistanis, which is why it came across a bit differently. We are a nation of around 232 million and counting, I am sure there are few individuals who are still traumatised, especially those who experienced those times first hand. But, that's not to say it is the predominant feeling among the population, or, it exists among a large minority.

I think we need to be careful in presenting the feelings of a few individuals, or a tiny minority as something that exists more than it does.

Regarding our brethren, I am more aware than I let out, about what they really feel about us lol, My view is we moved on because we are 1000 miles away, they are still in those lands, those corners, the corners that refresh bad memories, so in my book, I am willing to give them more time to find their peace. For that, I have to try and look at the positives, whilst looking after my own interests, as much as I can.

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Please report all false flaggers to the moderator.

There is @PAKISTANFOREVER to do this job.

- PRTP GWD

 

[peagle]

Apparently she is Indian and sings in Hindi. Will these guys ever stop.

I read the title properly after I had posted the video,
then I thought let's see if anyone comments,
you passed lol


They can claim what they want, they always have their panties in a twist.
I like to think we are a fairly confident nation, and improving by the day,
Pakistan is not made of glass that few comments or bad intentions will harm it.

But, if you look at Indians, they seem to think India is made of glass, ready to break at a moment's notice, that's why they feel obliged to defend the undefendable and create lies and stupid facts.