How The US Military Spends $800B Per Year On War Machines | True Cost | Business Insider

[Goritoes]

@SQ8 @gambit @F-22Raptor @Hamartia Antidote @jhungary @PakFactor @Windjammer @Jango @HRK

The comment of Pilot with call sign Ghost, are rather interesting. I wonder if he meant that even the Latest F-16's holds no chance against the F-35's but saying that it can shoot down F-16 without them knowing what hits them is very mind boggling, because we still can say that F-16 is easily the most modern in South Asia, so what on earth does this F-35 carries but its something that comes to to technical details, systems, EW's but no matter the cost but that fighter can be game changer for any AF in the world, and the part of FORD Carrier man that thing is massive.

 

[PakFactor]

@SQ8 @gambit @F-22Raptor @Hamartia Antidote @jhungary @PakFactor @Windjammer @Jango @HRK

The comment of Pilot with call sign Ghost, are rather interesting. I wonder if he meant that even the Latest F-16's holds no chance against the F-35's but saying that it can shoot down F-16 without them knowing what hits them is very mind boggling, because we still can say that F-16 is easily the most modern in South Asia, so what on earth does this F-35 carries but its something that comes to to technical details, systems, EW's but no matter the cost but that fighter can be game changer for any AF in the world, and the part of FORD Carrier man that thing is massive.

I was not surprised by the comments regarding the F-16s being trashed against the F-35. Hence, I was saying invest in stealth with Turkey or China and bring it into our region because eventually, the Indians will get their hands on one soon rather than later as being America's new lovechild.

 

[Goritoes]

I was not surprised by the comments regarding the F-16s being trashed against the F-35. Hence, I was saying invest in stealth with Turkey or China and bring it into our region because eventually, the Indians will get their hands on one soon rather than later as being America's new lovechild.

As @SQ8 said, if Indians get their hands of F-35's than they have the permanent quality edge over PAF, I wonder if PAF is considering this a actual threat. Because Indians do have the financial resources to get F-35's and if sh!t hits the fan they can order them in few numbers and that would make things more difficult for PAF.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

@SQ8 @gambit @F-22Raptor @Hamartia Antidote @jhungary @PakFactor @Windjammer @Jango @HRK

The comment of Pilot with call sign Ghost, are rather interesting. I wonder if he meant that even the Latest F-16's holds no chance against the F-35's but saying that it can shoot down F-16 without them knowing what hits them is very mind boggling, because we still can say that F-16 is easily the most modern in South Asia, so what on earth does this F-35 carries but its something that comes to to technical details, systems, EW's but no matter the cost but that fighter can be game changer for any AF in the world, and the part of FORD Carrier man that thing is massive.

It's because the F-16's radar can't see them easily at long range meanwhile the F-35 can easily see them.

Remember the F-16 (and AA missiles) don't carry big ground radars so anything that is low observable to a ground radar is even lower to a plane/missile. Thus increasing the chances of being snuck up on.

 

[jhungary]

@SQ8 @gambit @F-22Raptor @Hamartia Antidote @jhungary @PakFactor @Windjammer @Jango @HRK

The comment of Pilot with call sign Ghost, are rather interesting. I wonder if he meant that even the Latest F-16's holds no chance against the F-35's but saying that it can shoot down F-16 without them knowing what hits them is very mind boggling, because we still can say that F-16 is easily the most modern in South Asia, so what on earth does this F-35 carries but its something that comes to to technical details, systems, EW's but no matter the cost but that fighter can be game changer for any AF in the world, and the part of FORD Carrier man that thing is massive.

Communication Suite. (Link -16 or something like that)

Link 16 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We used to have Link-3 (Or system link 3 or uplink 3 or something I forget) in our Bradley, which is a communication system I have in my command console, I can't really tell you what it did and how do it do it, but what it allow me to do is that I can send a target into some other Bradley or Abrams targeting computer or even Apache so if I can see an enemy target, but the other couldn't, and I don't want to expose my position and engage that target, I can pipe that Target info into Link-3 system and say A M-1 Abrams 1 mile away from me can "See" that target in its targeting computer and it can engage that target even that M-1 Commander did not visually see it, or I can do the same with my Tow on my Bradley if someone give me a target and I can engage it even if I did not see that target.

Think of it like a sniper hidden in some scrub with a 2 ways radio, he can use his position to call in or laze artillery strike instead of the artillery firing blind. All in the while that sniper team stay hidden.

And that system I use back in early 2000s. Now that system is probably been upgrade and been upgrading for a long time. And if it allow me to do that back then, imagine what can it allow people to do now.

 

[Goritoes]

It's because the F-16's radar can't see them easily at long range meanwhile the F-35 can easily see them.

Remember the F-16 (and AA missiles) don't carry big ground radars so anything that is low observable to a ground radar is even lower to a plane/missile. Thus increasing the chances of being snuck up on.

But don't F-16's use the same AA missiles that F-35's use ? AIM and sidewinders ? with same range, how they give edge over the F-16 ? I understand the Radar on F-35 will have longer range so it can detect the F-16 from much long distance but to engage it wouldn't it use the same range/missile ?

Communication Suite. (Link -16 or something like that)

Link 16 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We used to have Link-3 (Or system link 3 or uplink 3 or something I forget) in our Bradley, which is a communication system I have in my command console, I can't really tell you what it did and how do it do it, but what it allow me to do is that I can send a target into some other Bradley or Abrams targeting computer or even Apache so if I can see an enemy target, but the other couldn't, and I don't want to expose my position and engage that target, I can pipe that Target info into Link-3 system and say A M-1 Abrams 1 mile away from me can "See" that target in its targeting computer and it can engage that target even that M-1 Commander did not visually see it, or I can do the same with my Tow on my Bradley if someone give me a target and I can engage it even if I did not see that target.

Think of it like a sniper hidden in some scrub with a 2 ways radio, he can use his position to call in or laze artillery strike instead of the artillery firing blind. All in the while that sniper team stay hidden.

And that system I use back in early 2000s. Now that system is probably been upgrade and been upgrading for a long time. And if it allow me to do that back then, imagine what can it allow people to do now.

So basically every team on Ground/Air and sea are interconnected with each other, whatever ground team see and observe that DATA can be shared with units on Air or Arty for them to engage, If that was something US achieved in 2000's I wonder what more they can improve ? Maybe making the Systems more autonomous like they have discussed in video ? But than Civilians will never privy to such information, one thing that shocked me was the cost of Ford AC and F-35 program which according to video is 13B for AC and 1.7 trillion for F-35 Program. US put money in one next gen fighter program than many countries GDP combined.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

But don't F-16's use the same AA missiles that F-35's use ? AIM and sidewinders ? with same range, how they give edge over the F-16 ? I understand the Radar on F-35 will have longer range so it can detect the F-16 from much long distance but to engage it wouldn't it use the same range/missile ?

Yes, the AIM-120 AMRAAM is a BVR radar guided missile carried by both the F-16 and F-35. However I'm sure it can see the F-16 better.

If the F-35 can get a lock for the AIM-120 on an F-16 before the F-16 can get a lock on the F-35 then naturally the F-35 is going to come out on top.

Another reason missiles are going to eventually need computer vision.

 

[Goritoes]

Yes, the AIM-120 AMRAAM is a BVR radar guided missile carried by both the F-16 and F-35. However I'm sure it can see the F-16 better.

If the F-35 can get a lock for the AIM-120 on an F-16 before the F-16 can get a lock on the F-35 then natually the F-35 is going to come out on top.

Another reason missiles are going to need computer vision.

I wonder if there is another AIM version in production with longer range for Future Next Gen fighters including F-35's. What about the counter measures ? if the range of the missile is same, F-16 can still try to escape from the missile using counter measures, and its own threat detection systems ? do you think that could play a role ? I mean F-16 and F-35 won't come face to face, but still its interesting to even imagine a face off.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

I wonder if there is another AIM version in production with longer range for Future Next Gen fighters including F-35's. What about the counter measures ? if the range of the missile is same, F-16 can still try to escape from the missile using counter measures, and its own threat detection systems ? do you think that could play a role ? I mean F-16 and F-35 won't come face to face, but still its interesting to even imagine a face off.

Planes have been tossing chafe and flares for decades to try and confuse missiles. We have to assume the missile builders have been working on making the missile less likely to be fooled by diversions. But again this why they need computer vision. They can see the plane and identify what is chafe and flares and simply ignore it.

 

[HRK]

As @SQ8 said, if Indians get their hands of F-35's than they have the permanent quality edge over PAF, I wonder if PAF is considering this a actual threat. Because Indians do have the financial resources to get F-35's and if sh!t hits the fan they can order them in few numbers and that would make things more difficult for PAF.

F-35 is not just a fighter jet but a representation of NG Technologies & Systems, it not just about kill chain but complete military aviation cycle of 5th gen technologies, which began right from the start of manufacturing till its final use.

No country who do not have true 5th gen Technologies would fully benefit from any 5th gen jet in isolation, for 5th gen to work whole 5th gen system of systems are required to work, stealth, radar, EW, DATA link and manpower all have to be at 5th gen stage in terms of technology cycle.

As of now US is the ONLY country in this domain other are trying to achieve the same level of Technological parity, other than China no one look capable enough to achieve this parity.

 

[Sam6536]

F-35 is not just a fighter jet but a representation of NG Technologies & Systems, it not just about kill chain but complete military aviation cycle of 5th gen technologies, which began right from the start of manufacturing till its final use.

No country who do not have true 5th gen Technologies would fully benefit from any 5th gen jet in isolation, for 5th gen to work whole 5th gen system of systems are required to work, stealth, radar, EW, DATA link and manpower all have to be at 5th gen stage in terms of technology cycle.

As of now US is the ONLY country in this domain other are trying to achieve the same level of Technological parity, other than China no one look capable enough to achieve this parity.

What about SU 35?
Russia seems to have the expertise, vision and technology but not the industrial capability or resources to build the said weapons.

 

[HRK]

What about SU 35?

No 4+++ gen fighter jet be it F-16, Su-35 or even Rafale could withstand any true 5gen fighter aircraft

 

[Sam6536]

No 4+++ gen fighter jet be it F-16, Su-35 or even Rafale could withstand any true 5gen fighter aircraft

makes sense
I was looking at the su57, a good fighter but ironic that they can design something so capable but don't have the capability to mass produce it, i mean they'll just haze dozens of them by 2030s or so.
We were offered to co-develop it but afaik it was an hassle both diplomatically and technologically.

 

[Abid123]

I was not surprised by the comments regarding the F-16s being trashed against the F-35. Hence, I was saying invest in stealth with Turkey or China and bring it into our region because eventually, the Indians will get their hands on one soon rather than later as being America's new lovechild.

What are the chances of India actually buying a 5th generation any time soon? There are options are very limited.

Which country will they acquire 5th gen fighter from?

US? Is the US willing to sell the F-35 knowing how close Russia-India relations are? The US was not even willing to export F-35 to KSA.

China? They are both enemies as everybody. So no chance in hell for that to happen.

Russia? Is the SU-57 even a proper 5th generation? IAF was not impressed by the SU-57.. So chances again are low for India. Not to mention CAATSA.

They would have to wait till a Japanese or EU 5th generation fighter comes on the export market.

But I agree with you Pakistan should acquire 5th generation after J-31/J-35 comes for export.

 

[jhungary]

So basically every team on Ground/Air and sea are interconnected with each other, whatever ground team see and observe that DATA can be shared with units on Air or Arty for them to engage, If that was something US achieved in 2000's I wonder what more they can improve ? Maybe making the Systems more autonomous like they have discussed in video ? But than Civilians will never privy to such information, one thing that shocked me was the cost of Ford AC and F-35 program which according to video is 13B for AC and 1.7 trillion for F-35 Program. US put money in one next gen fighter program than many countries GDP combined.

Strange this didn't hit my alert box, anyway...

Yes, anything anyone can see can be put into target solution, there are more than Link 16 actually, there are an entire network of Tactical Datalink that connect just about anything to anything else.

If I am not mistaken (Can't be proven as I am out of the game for almost 20 years) that Tactical Link System now can handle full spectrum battlespace information to achieve something call "If someone can see it, someone else can touch it" Think about a tactical scenario. A submerged sonar buoy picks up an enemy ship on an area, that buoy then send a datalink request on any drone that loiter around the target, and that select 2 closest drone to engage that enemy ship. The entire process is passive which mean that enemy ship will not know what's coming to hit them until missiles is fired from that drone and since it picks the closest one, the reaction time we gave the enemy is minimal, which enhanced the chance of that missile hitting the target.

We know this technology exist as F-35 and Patriot can automatically prioritise target. I mean even uber can send you the closest carride to you from where you are, I think it's pretty much a guarantee the US Military can achieve that. And I think in the future, everything is connected to everything. If you see an enemy ship or aircraft on SAT Image, you can put that in the datalink and it will formulate a target solution so you can hit it. And it is already boundary-less, Link 16 are used in all NATO member, Japan, South Korea, Australia, Singapore, Taiwan and across all platform (Air, Sea and Land) and all weapons system, even down to JDAM.

US spend second most of their money on R&D. Just behind paying service member their wages and welfare. And we did that for a reason, so we are one step ahead of everyone. You never know what you are getting into when you are actually fighting, so what we do here, we are using our combat experience to improve both Tactical and Strategic edge.