How Putin outsmarted everyone

[gau8av]

Western regions under full control of the Nazis. They removed all professional managers and put "ideologically correct" ones. No one requires professionalism any more - the main thing to shouting Nazi slogans. In Kiev, every day for 8 hours electricity is cut off. Everywhere strikes, prices increased by 2 times. Gloom, in general. And this is only the beginning of "reforms".

I'm sorry to hear that and sincerely wish for the the situation to be peacefully resolved before it gets any worse for the citizens.

 

[Superboy]

But u r a Canadian.

ethnically Chinese

If Crimea is what they wanted, then explain to me why they are fighting in Eastern Ukraine??

How easy for Russia to march 20,000 soldier to Eastern Ukraine and finish it off? Or you are saying Russia enjoy spending money and their soldier but denial any involvement?? How fun is that??

Crimea alone is not punishment enough for violently overthrowing a democratically elected government. The price has to be MUCH MUCH higher than that. Already, some 5,000 Ukrainians have died, including thousands of Ukrainian soldiers. How many Russians died? 0

 

[jhungary]

ethnically Chinese




Crimea alone is not punishment enough for violently overthrowing a democratically elected government. The price has to be MUCH MUCH higher than that. Already, some 5,000 Ukrainians have died, including thousands of Ukrainian soldiers. How many Russians died? 0

You sure 0 Russian Soldier died??

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/05/russia-tv-funeral-soldier-killed-ukraine-on-leavev

Putin awards medal to Russian soldier killed in the Donbas | EUROMAIDAN PRESS | News and Opinion from Across Ukraine

Silent Deaths: The Price of a Russian Soldier's Life | Opinion | The Moscow Times

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Forgotten death of Russian soldier

The third one is from the Moscow time, I got a lot more of those reference, you want me to show you??

And @Horus s seems to me this @Superboy is celebrating civilian death in war, he call for more Ukrainian (not soldier) to be kill for punishment. Can you check if he had violate any rules of this forum. Thank You

 

[Penguin]

@Superboy You really think Ukraine will invade Donbas?

Invade? Reclaim would be more appropriate a term

 

[Superboy]

You sure 0 Russian Soldier died??

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/05/russia-tv-funeral-soldier-killed-ukraine-on-leavev

Putin awards medal to Russian soldier killed in the Donbas | EUROMAIDAN PRESS | News and Opinion from Across Ukraine

Silent Deaths: The Price of a Russian Soldier's Life | Opinion | The Moscow Times

BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Forgotten death of Russian soldier

The third one is from the Moscow time, I got a lot more of those reference, you want me to show you??

And @Horus s seems to me this @Superboy is celebrating civilian death in war, he call for more Ukrainian (not soldier) to be kill for punishment. Can you check if he had violate any rules of this forum. Thank You

Maybe some volunteers KIA, but no service soldiers. Reason is because Ukrainian soldiers do not dare to shoot at Russian soldiers.

Invade? Reclaim would be more appropriate a term

That would be against the will of the people.

 

[jhungary]

what, the part about literally not being allowed out of their barracks when the Russians went in to save Crimea from the maidan nazis ? hell yes.. and they had full stocked armories and small and heavy arms but pussied out of a fight.

To be fair though, the political situation in Kiev was all chaos with no real leadership (thanks to the US sponsored coup and all the ensuing violence)

Have you ever stopped and wonder why Ukraine did not fight in Crimea but instead fighting the rebel and Russian in Eastern Ukraine. Where there are way, way more support from Russia. Can you try to answer me that, cos this is the reason why Ukrainian themselves are idle in Crimea.

This is from my friend in the Kiev Government, Crimea is cancer for Pro-West Ukraine government. Losing Crimea would actually take out almost half the eventual vote to apply for EU and NATO membership. I cannot vouch for this, but he said the Ukraine government actually made a deal with the Russia before March and have their force sneak out of Crimea.

Now, I don't know if that is true, although this sound reasonable, otherwise there are no way Ukraine can pull all 4000 soldier and civilian withdrawal from Crimea with that amount of Russian force present.

he is quite big within the military and I know him personally during NATO training mission, Iraq 05. He is currently a high ranking Ukrainian Commander.

firstly, you're exaggerating a bit there but Russian paras/SF did come and help the rebels beat back the Kiev forces, but only for a short period during the counter offensive after they had to retreat from Kramatorsk and Sloviansk.

and NATO did sit idle and will continue to if this escalates, else they risk a direct confrontation with the Russian military.. article 5 does not apply to Ukraine. They've done some joint drills in Lviv and the western parts with the Ukies apart from state department contractors training (confirmed) and possibly even fighting alongside the Kiev forces in the donbass

Again, do you really believe that?? I am not going to speculate, but what you are saying seems far fetch, and biased. Bear in mind, I am just commending on pure militaristic situation. There are no way, an under supplied and under trained Ukraine Force can hold out any kind of organised attack, from anyone. Especially when you factor in Russian GRU troop and Spetsnaz.

Now, I am not going to say they are or they aren't, but news comes in that Rusky force did not withdraw, in fact, they renewed the attack on the airport on Dec 1, only to be beaten back by the "Ukrainian" Force

If you can read Ukrainian

Для прекращения огня в Донецкий аэропорт выехали украинский и российский генералы - АТО : Новости УНИАН

Боевики пообещали оставить "киборгов" в покое | УКРИНФОРМ

And I personally have some SF friend from US and UK are currently operating on the Area.

not going to tell me there are US state department mercenaries ?

man, there are literally miles of nuclear blast proof underground bunkers and tunnels under the Donetsk airport (old soviet architectural doctrine)

my old "cyborg" granny could sit in those with her cat all day knitting as grad salvos fell from the skies

Well, they are special force Volunteer, like the Russian counterpart. Or you are going to call the Rusky SF merc too??

hmm, if your granny can do it, maybe you too should sit on those bunker when grad rocket flies by. Dude, you are seriously underestimate war. And There are multiple level on that Airport, the last report indicate that there are NO RUSsIAN OR REBEL FORCE PRESENT AT ALL LEVEL, above or underground.

appétit

I know @vostok is not a neutral observer but perhaps he can come and give you some facts and back it up with citations and proper proof, and correct me if I got something wrong.

lol, his facts?? If you called him "Not a neutral observer" their his view is not "Facts" anymore, as he is biased. And I don't think I can learn from anyone or someone who said Russia win WW2 single handedly. So, no thanks.

Why don't we just wait and see what happened next, will Russia withdraw or will they start an all out war

 

[Superboy]

And @Horus s seems to me this @Superboy is celebrating civilian death in war, he call for more Ukrainian (not soldier) to be kill for punishment. Can you check if he had violate any rules of this forum. Thank You

If anyone is to blame for the deaths of thousands of Ukrainians, it must be blamed on Ukrainian soldiers. Their actions are responsible for all the deaths. Donbas speaks Russian. Donbas does not belong to Ukraine.

Have you ever stopped and wonder why Ukraine did not fight in Crimea but instead fighting the rebel and Russian in Eastern Ukraine. Where there are way, way more support from Russia. Can you try to answer me that, cos this is the reason why Ukrainian themselves are idle in Crimea.

This is from my friend in the Kiev Government, Crimea is cancer for Pro-West Ukraine government. Losing Crimea would actually take out almost half the eventual vote to apply for EU and NATO membership. I cannot vouch for this, but he said the Ukraine government actually made a deal with the Russia before March and have their force sneak out of Crimea.

Now, I don't know if that is true, although this sound reasonable, otherwise there are no way Ukraine can pull all 4000 soldier and civilian withdrawal from Crimea with that amount of Russian force present.

he is quite big within the military and I know him personally during NATO training mission, Iraq 05. He is currently a high ranking Ukrainian Commander.



Again, do you really believe that?? I am not going to speculate, but what you are saying seems far fetch, and biased. Bear in mind, I am just commending on pure militaristic situation. There are no way, an under supplied and under trained Ukraine Force can hold out any kind of organised attack, from anyone. Especially when you factor in Russian GRU troop and Spetsnaz.

Now, I am not going to say they are or they aren't, but news comes in that Rusky force did not withdraw, in fact, they renewed the attack on the airport on Dec 1, only to be beaten back by the "Ukrainian" Force

If you can read Ukrainian

Для прекращения огня в Донецкий аэропорт выехали украинский и российский генералы - АТО : Новости УНИАН

Боевики пообещали оставить "киборгов" в покое | УКРИНФОРМ

And I personally have some SF friend from US and UK are currently operating on the Area.



Well, they are special force Volunteer, like the Russian counterpart. Or you are going to call the Rusky SF merc too??

hmm, if your granny can do it, maybe you too should sit on those bunker when grad rocket flies by. Dude, you are seriously underestimate war. And There are multiple level on that Airport, the last report indicate that there are NO RUSsIAN OR REBEL FORCE PRESENT AT ALL LEVEL, above or underground.



lol, his facts?? If you called him "Not a neutral observer" their his view is not "Facts" anymore, as he is biased. And I don't think I can learn from anyone or someone who said Russia win WW2 single handedly. So, no thanks.

Why don't we just wait and see what happened next, will Russia withdraw or will they start an all out war

Correct me if I'm wrong, but something like half of Ukraine army was stationed in Crimea. 20,000 soldiers if memory services. On top of that, 40 out of 80 MiG-29s were stationed there, even though only 4 worked. Yet Russia annexed Crimea without firing a shot. 18,000 out of those 20,000 Ukrainian soldiers became Russian citizens.

 

[jhungary]

Maybe some volunteers KIA, but no service soldiers. Reason is because Ukrainian soldiers do not dare to shoot at Russian soldiers.




That would be against the will of the people.

Oh, I forgot, there are NO RUSSIAN SOLDIER in Ukraine, that's the official stance of Putin.

lol, so, when an Russian soldier start shooting Ukraine, what you are saying is, the Ukrainian just lay down their arms and get shot?? Jesus, you make me laugh, dude

 

[Superboy]

Oh, I forgot, there are NO RUSSIAN SOLDIER in Ukraine, that's the official stance of Putin.

lol, so, when an Russian soldier start shooting Ukraine, what you are saying is, the Ukrainian just lay down their arms and get shot?? Jesus, you make me laugh, dude

There isn't any deployed in Donbas by the Russian army. Ukrainian soldiers never dare to shoot a single bullet into Crimea, do they? It's been almost a year since Crimea was annexed and Ukrainian soldiers never dared to do that. If Ukrainian soldiers dare to shoot a single bullet into Crimea, then I will say there are Russian soldiers in Donbas.

 

[jhungary]

There isn't any deployed in Donbas by the Russian army. Ukrainian soldiers never dare to shoot a single bullet into Crimea, do they? It's been almost a year since Crimea was annexed and Ukrainian soldiers never dared to do that. If Ukrainian soldiers dare to shoot a single bullet into Crimea, then I will say there are Russian soldiers in Donbas.

lol......

Dude, you probably need to get your head checked, this would be my advice to you. Until then...

Yeah, you are right, Ukrainian Soldier dare not to shoot at Russian, and when they meet any Russian Soldier on Donetsk, the Ukrainian would just surrender, that's probably why the war is on a stalemate over there.

I felt on the floor laughing.

 

[Declein]

What you are saying is a 2 way street. Nobody would risk a nuclear war to stop Russia, on the other hand, Russia would also not risk a nuclear war for Ukraine

Have you ever wonder why Russian stop short from a full assistance? We know they are supplying rebel with arms, we knows this, you know this, the world knows this, but yet, even this is an open secret, and Russia are getting strike at economically, still Russian denial that they are helping the rebel. Have you ever think why?

+1, may people tend to overlook this simple thing - which is - Russia will do anything possible not to escalate this further. They are hurt, and hurt badly already. There is nothing else to gain.
USA/EU, on the other hand, aren't satisfied with the current situation and will keep pushing, how further I don't know..

The second thing that gets constantly repeated is the inability of Ukraine (or E Europe for that matter) to pose any danger to Russia in case of a full scale invasion. The notion is laughable and stupid at the same time, but I understand the reasons for repeating this fallacy, which is to induce a (false) seance of superiority...propaganda, in other words.

 

[jhungary]

+1, may people tend to overlook this simple thing - which is - Russia will do anything possible not to escalate this further. They are hurt, and hurt badly already. There is nothing else to gain. USA/EU, on the other hand, aren't satisfied with the current situation and will keep pushing, how further I don't know..

The second thing that gets constantly repeated is the inability of Ukraine (or E Europe for that matter) to pose any danger to Russia in case of a full scale invasion. The notion is laughable and stupid at the same time, but I understand the reasons for repeating this fallacy, which is to induce a (false) seance of superiority...propaganda, in other words.

US/EU is pushing putin to either declare war, or to back down. Traditional wisdom suggest that being Russian, they may try to bluff for a while, like the Cuban Missile Crisis, but in the end, we are going to allow them to back off and save face.

People keep saying Russian can go to war or will roll Ukraine over in days have to wake up, with a roll of toilet paper cost more than a beer in the west. It's going to be very costly for the Russian to keep supporting the rebel, let alone start a war. One need to realise, every thing in war cost money, from the meal soldier's eating to the bullet in their gun. With interest rate now at 17%, there are not much money to spend on anything. And you cannot fight a war without resource.

But being in PDF, pro-Russian member would think Putin would make them alright somehow, even tho there are no way and it's illogical in real world. In fact, it would be the dumbest move Russian did if Russia want to fight a war they cannot physically afford. Try to imagine, things goes the way it is now, putin would have problem paying their soldier....let alone starting a war

 

[Nefer]

US/EU is pushing putin to either declare war, or to back down. Traditional wisdom suggest that being Russian, they may try to bluff for a while, like the Cuban Missile Crisis, but in the end, we are going to allow them to back off and save face.

People keep saying Russian can go to war or will roll Ukraine over in days have to wake up, with a roll of toilet paper cost more than a beer in the west. It's going to be very costly for the Russian to keep supporting the rebel, let alone start a war. One need to realise, every thing in war cost money, from the meal soldier's eating to the bullet in their gun. With interest rate now at 17%, there are not much money to spend on anything. And you cannot fight a war without resource.

But being in PDF, pro-Russian member would think Putin would make them alright somehow, even tho there are no way and it's illogical in real world. In fact, it would be the dumbest move Russian did if Russia want to fight a war they cannot physically afford. Try to imagine, things goes the way it is now, putin would have problem paying their soldier....let alone starting a war

Depends how big the reserve of the Russian state is.

 

[jhungary]

Depends how big the reserve of the Russian state is.

probably not wise to use reserve to fight war...

 

[Nefer]

probably not wise to use reserve to fight war...

True, but it gives an calculation to the state on how much risk they can take.