Featured How Pakistan Is Preparing to Kill India’s New Aircraft Carriers

[Tornado23]

you are underestimating the pakistani airforce a little and btw they would just need to get a nuke close to it if they were at war the issue would not even matter if they could get a conventional weapon through or not because they could just nuke it and stopping a ballistic missile which detonated right on top is quite impossible the laughable defenses lack the kinetic power to stop such a warhead when its seperated in the last stage its done already

 

[Amin Bactria]

i have high expectations for pakistans future dont come short of what you can do and stop being hostile to us we never see pakistan as enemy we are iranians its when you forget that we are all muslims than still you arent ethnically different and therefore iran has no reason to see you as hostile anyway rather in the opposite even the eastern people of punjab in farsi panjab 5 water are kind of like us and more so than anything what is behind pakistan specially the cowbelt which is an imposter larping arian has nothing to do with us ethnically they look like weird monkeys in fact
you guys are the same as us so stop the hostility its nonsense
yes your language has this hindi tone i dont like it at all i wished you would still speak farsi and not this language your colonizers put on you to make it easier for india to win you over which in fact pakistan is more interested in india than it is in iran which is crazy and its the doing of british they killed the connection in 100s of ways making it easy for india to dominate this conflict but they underestimated how capable muslims are compared to hinds because they took farsi and alot of islamic high culture away from you and gave you english colonial culture and language and urdu which is an incomplete language without its higher form farsi and the english culture is worthless as is england itself

 

[KaiserX]

i have high expectations for pakistans future dont come short of what you can do and stop being hostile to us we never see pakistan as enemy we are iranians its when you forget that we are all muslims than still you arent ethnically different and therefore iran has no reason to see you as hostile anyway rather in the opposite even the eastern people of punjab in farsi panjab 5 water are kind of like us and more so than anything what is behind pakistan specially the cowbelt which is an imposter larping arian has nothing to do with us ethnically they look like weird monkeys in fact
you guys are the same as us so stop the hostility its nonsense
yes your language has this hindi tone i dont like it at all i wished you would still speak farsi and not this language your colonizers put on you to make it easier for india to win you over which in fact pakistan is more interested in india than it is in iran which is crazy and its the doing of british they killed the connection in 100s of ways making it easy for india to dominate this conflict but they underestimated how capable muslims are compared to hinds because they took farsi and alot of islamic high culture away from you and gave you english colonial culture and language and urdu which is an incomplete language without its higher form farsi and the english culture is worthless as is england itself

I dont think any Pakistani is hostile against Iranian people. Infact we think of Iran-Pakistan-Kashmir-Afghanistan- Punjab (Indian occupied) as being under the same cultural/ethnic sphere of influence. In this land Indo-iranian land and people are the far majority with Iranian ethnicity/Punjabi being dominant at 80% of combined.

It is certain policies of the Shia Revolutionary Regime which is of concern. As you are aware this regime has caused a lot of chaos in the region from Lebanon to Iran today. There was a time once when Iran was decades ahead of development compared to Paksitan or even Turkey.

Today Turkey is ahead and Pakistan is fast catching up in development. Iran has fallen far behind due to its leaderships mismanagement of its economy, sanctions, inflation, and other issues with Irans IRGC state led economic model which is good in surviving sanctions but cannot compete on a regional/global scale.

Iran should work more closely with its muslim neighbors such as Saudi arabia, UAE, and Turkey to create a common cooperation environment for this Pakistan can play a lead role since it enjoys close relations with all stakeholders including Iran.

At the same time there is huge opportunity when it comes to Trade between Iran-Pakistan. The energy trade potential is easily worth 10+bn alone per year. This is not taking into consideration other trade in textiles, manufactered goods, food products, etc... which can even be exported to Turkey through Iran Iran-Pakistan have a combined population of 300+ Million people which is almost the same size as the US. The trade potential is 100+BN easily one day inshallah. With CPEC being expanded infrastructure between Iran-Pakistan-China-Afghanistan can be expanded significantly.

 

[drunken-monke]

Are bhai, 7 pages ke baad Indian Aircraft carrier Duba ke Nahi??

 

[Black Tornado]

this is laughable india has no serious navy pakistan could seize this thing if it came to close to it simply take out the command the deck and either engine or make it unmanouverable end of story its not really a real threat in my view its a costly joke
if there even was war pakistan wouldnt even need to worry a single nuke it wouldnt even need a direct hit the thing would be gone so yes its an airfield in the middle of the sea but that can also become a huge loss in a very short time

I understand that that you Iranian guys have quite an experience of seizing Aircraft Carriers.

but please dude, don’t get swayed away by emotion.

nobody can understand cow language

The same is understood by Pakistani members.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Pakistan’s maritime strategy is the essence of simplicity:

• Protect its coast with a combination of Arabian Sea and attacking the Indian Navy as close to its home bases as possible.
• destroyers in the second-line, ranging upto 250 kilometers or so from the coast.
• torpedo and missile boats in the third-line, operating close to the coast.
• maritime reconnaissance aircraft, anti-submarine helicopters, and strike aircraft operating in conjunction with the surface forces.
• Keep its larger Indian opponent off balance by using its small submarine force to threaten Bombay High and Indian shipping.

This is clearly a strategy of sea denial.

India, on the other hand, will seek to impose its naval will on Pakistan, a strategy of sea control by:

• Aggressively seeking to attack all Pakistani coastal bases and targets, including the landing of amphibious forces to help the Army achieve strategic results.
• Seeking to clear the Arabian Sea of all Pakistani shipping, military or civilian.

The dominant reality of the naval balance between the two countries is that sea-denial (Pakistan’ s strategy) is far easier and cheaper to achieve than sea-control (India’s strategy). The situation may be linked to that between Germany and the Allies in World War II. With a much smaller investment in men and equipment, the German Navy neutralized the much larger Allied fleets for almost five year;


Today the major naval bases of Karachi and Gwader are well protected by anti-ship missiles. A small but adequate, reconnaissance element exists as well. Sea King holicopters, capable of anti- submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-ship missile strikes are available. Long-range strike elements of PAF equipped with AShMs are there. All this makes simply sailing in and blasting Gwader or Karachi impossible.

Today a repeat of 1971 may prove, more expensive to IN than to PN. If IN sends twenty warships to sink three Pakistani warships, and damage the port, but lose four or five of its expensive ships in return, the exchange ratio cannot be considered favorable.

A point to be kept in mind regarding PN's old destroyers equipped with anti ship missiles is that the sophistication lies in the missile, which is basically an inert round till fired, not in the ship.


If IN wants to fight the Pakistan Navy in its home waters, then even the otherwise insignificant Chinese missile boats become deadly. The Pakistan Navy may not be able to attack, except with submarines, but it certainly can defend.

The problem with defending against submarines is that the cost- benefit ratio favors the submarine. This has led the submarine to be a preferred weapon of the weaker naval power. As with any other weapon, no matter how good, numbers themselves are the best force multiplier, and Pakistanis submarines today present a threat more than twice its four, submarines presented in 1971.

 

[LeGenD]

I know right.. Aircraft carriers are obsolote in this age and time.. It is a bygone era product and a sitting target.. You can take it out in 100 ways

Many military assets have a counter but this is not sufficient grounds to declare one obsolete.

For instance, submarines are vulnerable to ASW assets so shall WE assume that they are obsolete?

Aircraft carrier have numerous uses, and WE need to be mindful about what an entire CBG can do.

1. Surface warships provide anti-ship, A2/AD and ASW cover to an aircaft carrier. These warships can also be used to attack/counter-attack enemy assets across sea, air and land.

2. Airborne assets provide ISR coverage, additional ASW coverage, and can also be used to attack/counter-attack enemy assets across sea, air and land.

3. Submarines provide additional ASW coverage yet again.

It is not easy to attack a well-guarded aircraft carrier unless its escort is largely outdated. ASBM and cruise missiles can miss targets as well, particularly in dense EW environments and/or if deceived by sophisticated decoys. And if attacking forces suffer heavy losses while attempting to sink an aircraft carrier, then? Mazeed Kuut khanay wali situation afterwards?

Well-funded blue water navies are not stupid for keeping aircraft carriers.

 

[Basel]

Dear distance of Duqam port from Gawadar port is around 500 miles while from Karachi its around 700 miles thing need to be understand here is that Duqam is mention here as reference point not as exact location where Indian Navy would deploy its carrier they will obviously deploy its at some distance let say 200-300 miles so overall IN carrier group would be deployed at acdistance of around 800-100 miles from the coast of Pakistan

In this case even with IFR JF-17 would have some limitations keep in mind JF-17 with 3 extarnal fuel tank and two 1000 pound bombs have have combat radius of 1000 KM

Plz also note

- Around 79 JF-17 are not IFR capable

- With 2 C-802 or CM-400 AKG it will have smaller combat radius due to the absence of 2 external fuel tank

- In that scenario Indian carrier group would be deployed +1200 to 1600 km away from coast of Pakistan

- Inflight refuelears either have to fly earlier than strick package to reach the refueling point with will put them in danger against Indian interceptors

So comparatively indian navy would be in less danger zone

How about deploying MRTT with Escort package out side Pakistani??

 

[HRK]

How about deploying MRTT with Escort package out side Pakistani??

We could as I said earlier

Inflight refuelers either have to fly earlier than strike package to reach the refueling point with will put them in danger against Indian interceptors

but this will engage the number of aerial assets for operation over sea, to keep Indian Navy busy ideally we would be required constant presence or maximum presence and for this we have to employe number of Aerial assets for Naval Operation that to at the distance of 1,200-1,600 km Pakistan's coast.

Every additional number of Aerial assets employed in Naval Operation let say for escort of Aerial Refueler or Aerial Cover for Naval Ships at +1,200 km away from Pakistan mean less number of Aerial Assets available for Operations against IAF. We have limited number of Modern fighter Jets

This is the limitation we must understand and because of this reason we are not into Sea Control Strategy but A2/AD. We have to understand with current resource we can not fight a Naval war which could stretch our Naval Ships and Aerial Assets (particularly Modern Fighter Jets) in vast area of Indian Ocean

If we really want to secure our SLOC by denying India Navy 'Freedom of Operation' from the south of Duqum Port till Babe-ul-Mandab we need 2 things

- Naval Bombers like H-6
- Naval Base near Babe-ul-Mandab or Horn of Africa Region (which is almost impossible in current situation)

 

[Basel]

We could as I said earlier

but this will engage the number of aerial assets for operation over sea, to keep Indian Navy busy ideally we would be required constant presence or maximum presence and for this we have to employe number of Aerial assets for Naval Operation that to at the distance of 1,200-1,600 km Pakistan's coast.

Every additional number of Aerial assets employed in Naval Operation let say for escort of Aerial Refueler or Aerial Cover for Naval Ships at +1,200 km away from Pakistan mean less number of Aerial Assets available for Operations against IAF. We have limited number of Modern fighter Jets

This is the limitation we must understand and because of this reason we are not into Sea Control Strategy but A2/AD. We have to understand with current resource we can not fight a Naval war which could stretch our Naval Ships and Aerial Assets (particularly Modern Fighter Jets) in vast area of Indian Ocean

If we really want to secure our SLOC by denying India Navy 'Freedom of Operation' from the south of Duqum Port till Babe-ul-Mandab we need 2 things

- Naval Bombers like H-6
- Naval Base near Babe-ul-Mandab or Horn of Africa Region (which is almost impossible in current situation)

What is max range of our Mirages with 2 fuel tanks, IFR and RAAD-2??

Also PN can look into other option like JH-7As (already rejected) or if possible Tornadoes from KSA or Su-34 ( naval version) from Russia to mitigate short comings.

 

[Tornado23]

What is max range of our Mirages with 2 fuel tanks, IFR and RAAD-2??

Also PN can look into other option like JH-7As (already rejected) or if possible Tornadoes from KSA or Su-34 ( naval version) from Russia to mitigate short comings.

Tornadoes are old and less capable than say the su35s. Id prefer the flanker e tbh. Good payload for anti shipping and a2a, swap out the pesa radar for aesa. Only problem is cost and its air to air armament.

 

[Basel]

Tornadoes are old and less capable than say the su35s. Id prefer the flanker e tbh. Good payload for anti shipping and a2a, swap out the pesa radar for aesa. Only problem is cost and its air to air armament.

For Naval role Tornadoes can be good as we are talking about long range strike role and can be cheap to procure, but Su-34 in naval configuration as per PN needs will be best even with PESA as it's primary role will be sticking enemy and also Su-34 can defend it self better so it will not need escort on most of the missions.

Su-34 can be multipurpose aircraft for Navy as it can be mini MPA etc.

Su-34 can perform role of many naval aircrafts specially following one with better performance.

 

[Tornado23]

For Naval role Tornadoes can be good as we are talking about long range strike role and can be cheap to procure, but Su-34 in naval configuration as per PN needs will be best even with PESA as it's primary role will be sticking enemy and also Su-34 can defend it self better so it will not need escort on most of the missions.

Su-34 can be multipurpose aircraft for Navy as it can be mini MPA etc.

Su-34 can perform role of many naval aircrafts specially following one with better performance.

Id prefer the su35. Bigger combat range, better ordanace, aesa radar option, better top speed and its a newer airframe. Just its a2a missiles that are lacking. Also india has some of the weaponry that is equipped on the su35 such as the r77 and the r73

 

[Basel]

Id prefer the su35. Bigger combat range, better ordanace, aesa radar option, better top speed and its a newer airframe. Just its a2a missiles that are lacking. Also india has some of the weaponry that is equipped on the su35 such as the r77 and the r73

We are talking about PN not PAF so for that the aircraft must be able to perform variety of roles for PN making it a good platform for PN needs and budget.

 

[Mentee]

Fire 80% of the missile arsenal of every kind in the early minutes of the war and the 20% after assessing the situation via satellites within 10-15 minutes. Then throw in the manned assets