How Pakistan could effectively cripple Indian’s air force with rocket artillery, and what is needed.

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Stooping down to personal insults is a classic display of intellectual defeat.

Poor souls were children of poor people while the ones who encourage them to Jihad always send their own children to live in UK, Europe etc.

What defeat???????????????????, they sent to hell 15 elite indian soldiers from a nation that is 275x bigger than the whole population of IOK...................

 

[KaiserX]

More than any other Pakistani missile, with other missiles i would love to see, few nuclear tipped "Nasr" dropped among the Indians attacking ground forces. And few other depleted Uranium products Pakistan has.
Pakistan shouldn't worry about wider nuclear war. Indians would be foolish to start it, but if they do, let them start it.
That would be a game changer on huge scale. At the moment, Indians have no answer to it.
As a matter of fact, if we look at their missiles in "Operational" category, Indians have relied heavily on Russiaa and now on Israel.
Israeli co-operation we should be keeping an eye at.

Im all for it.. Include a few nuclear tips nasr's and other missiles with sub-5kt yield. An initial tactical nuclear strike on indian air bases would surely crippled their air force. Send a warning along that any retaliation would ensure the full destruction of bhindia and our enemy will cower to their knees.

Pakistan would be able to call indias nuclear bluff while avoiding a full scale nuclear war... the question is would our generals be willing to play poker?

Also at the end of the day Pakistans conventional forces if used wisely could defeat india without nukes regardless. We have a ballistic missile program more advanced than Irans and we have seen how accurate their missiles were. Pakistan can replicate something similar on a scale x100 along with cruise missiles and UCAV's on indian air bases.

Keep in mind we dont need to destroy each and every single air base. We have to keep our focus on IAF bases in the north west area. Once those are destroyed Pakistani forces would be able to provide area denial and have their own operational perimeter setup. After the initial strike the area of denial can be expanded as we knock out more indian air bases.

The goal should be to keep the IAF as far away as possible from their frontline ground forces. This will provide our ground forces with air superiority and will allow PAF to have situational awareness and strike at IAF planes that are coming in from hundreds of miles away (outer perimeter zone). Our population centers are very close to the loc/border. We can mobilize our reserves extremely quick to the front lines (500,000-1 million) and take jammu/amristar.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Im all for it.. Include a few nuclear tips nasr's and other missiles with sub-5kt yield. An initial tactical nuclear strike on indian air bases would surely crippled their air force. Send a warning along that any retaliation would ensure the full destruction of bhindia and our enemy will cower to their knees.

Pakistan would be able to call indias nuclear bluff while avoiding a full scale nuclear war... the question is would our generals be willing to play poker?

Also at the end of the day Pakistans conventional forces if used wisely could defeat india without nukes regardless. We have a ballistic missile program more advanced than Irans and we have seen how accurate their missiles were. Pakistan can replicate something similar on a scale x100 along with cruise missiles and UCAV's on indian air bases.

Keep in mind we dont need to destroy each and every single air base. We have to keep our focus on IAF bases in the north west area. Once those are destroyed Pakistani forces would be able to provide area denial and have their own operational perimeter setup. After the initial strike the area of denial can be expanded as we knock out more indian air bases.

The goal should be to keep the IAF as far away as possible from their frontline ground forces. This will provide our ground forces with air superiority and will allow PAF to have situational awareness and strike at IAF planes that are coming in from hundreds of miles away (outer perimeter zone). Our population centers are very close to the loc/border. We can mobilize our reserves extremely quick to the front lines (500,000-1 million) and take jammu/amristar.

Agreed. Indians dare not go for full scale nuclear war. Pakistan have substantial edge over Indians both in missile and nuclear technology. I cannot go in to details here, but Pakistan has many undeclared weapons, which can create havoc in Indian ground forces.

We have already seen how PAF created havoc on 27th Feb 19. Indians were clueless and moved all their prize possessions including Su 30s away from Pakistani borders. On missile front apart from Brahmos, not much to worry about. Even them shouldn't pose no problems.
That's why i had objected to PAF not destroying all 9 targets locked by them. That' would have given Indians lesson never to forget.

 

[KaiserX]

Agreed. Indians dare not go for full scale nuclear war. Pakistan have substantial edge over Indians both in missile and nuclear technology. I cannot go in to details here, but Pakistan has many undeclared weapons, which can create havoc in Indian ground forces.

We have already seen how PAF created havoc on 27th Feb 19. Indians were clueless and moved all their prize possessions including Su 30s away from Pakistani borders. On missile front apart from Brahmos, not much to worry about. Even them shouldn't pose no problems.
That's why i had objected to PAF not destroying all 9 targets locked by them. That' would have given Indians lesson never to forget.

Key here would be a total rethink in strategy for pakistani armed forces. The strategy should be to inflict as much loss as possible on IAF bases in the north west region BEFORE their forces can react. This requires us to be proactive rather than reactive as we were in Feb last year. We much align our resources ie missiles and aircrafts to strike at predetermined air bases. Thermobaric warheads would allow for a much larger destruction radius against protected aircraft hangars. Missiles should strike first followed by fighter jets. Airbases close to the border can be followed up with UCAV's. Once aircrafts are taken out focus should quickly fix to destroying SAMS and army targets.

All this will require our forces to be fluid in war. Aircrafts change positions on airbases esp once attacked. Multiple waves following up will get rid of this issue.

I estimate following resources would be needed for the first few initial strikes
-A100 MBRL: Positioned to strike air bases close by such as pathankot
- NASR: same as above
-Ghauri/shaheen 1: Would take the bulk of airbases beyond 100km from the border within the northwest region
-Babur:Same as above
-Raad : Same as above
- Jf-17/F-16/Mirages: Launch standoff weapons to destroy any remaining aircraft targets
- Buraq/UCAVS: Launch guided missiles to destroy air crafts located at bases close to the border sub 100km

Once again no map was provided but if we assume 12 IAF airbases in the northwest theatre then x15 ballistic missiles and x15 cruise missiles for each base would be about 360 missiles total. 15 fighter jets for each base targets we would need 180 Fighter jets and UCAV's for these initial strikes. All resources we have already available.

This strategy would allow us to use our geographical disadvantage to our complete advantage. Since Pakistan would only have to make airbases in northwest india inoperable whereby India would have to make every airbase in Pakistan inoperable.

 

[GumNaam]

How do you know that no terrorists were sent to see their 72 virgins? The area was cordoned off for quite some time before the press was allowed to see anything.

never mind what I say, why don't you ask everyone else on the world who posted satellite pictures & said thar l that you failed! besides...your own fat cow shusma suwwaraj (may she be bbq's in hell) came out and admitted no one was killed in your misadventure.

With the tech they have, and it's lethality, we have to insure that Pakistanis crows are not driven to extinction. This is a very serious situation.

yes, crows & kabootars both!

 

[Osiris]

This writing is my short opinion, and research based article for the Best Writer completion. I don't expect to win, and that was not my complete goal here I am just trying to give my opinion on a underutilized strategic weapon. This is my first real article here that I gave a good effort on so go easy on me please.


Long range multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) are somewhat underappreciated systems that can be used effectively in a suppressive role and are a much cheaper alternative then cruise missiles yet allow much more payload delivered on target. Pakistan could in theory use rocket artillery with ranges varying from 100 to 400km acquired from nations that are recent suppliers of Pakistan that produce these systems namely, Turkey, and China.[1][2] Assuming Pakistan could use its MLRS in an offensive role like how America used its Tomahawk cruise missiles in the early stages of the Iraq war, and more recently in the April 2017 strikes on Syrian airbases thereby rendering roughly 20% of the Syrian air force destroyed. [3]


Currently Pakistan has A-100 which lacks range, and accuracy to hit more then a few airbases without coming very close to the LOC and within striking range of well-placed strikes. I have taken the liberty of making a map of the Western Air Command to the best of my knowledge with public sources with the range of the A-100 overlapped. As you can see at most Pakistan can take out a few airbases with concentrated strikes of 50+ rockets absolutely decimating targets with a large 200kg fragmentation warhead that will decimate aircraft runways and allow PAF aircraft to destroy the aircraft on the ground.[4]

View attachment 621095

One solution to this problem would be Pakistan acquiring longer range MLRS such as the A300 manufactured by China and currently used by the PLA army. The A-300 has a maximum range of 290 kilometers, a 150kg warhead roughly 1/3 the explosives of the Tomahawk and is not bound by MTCR rules which China follows.[5] This range would allow destruction, or a significant disruption in operation of airbases which would allow Pakistani fighters to operate much more easily inside of India without a major fighter threat for at least a few weeks as India is forced to make new airbases and operate further inside of India. I have again taken the liberty of making a map with the A300 launched from or near Lahore overlain over Indian airbases. As is evident, only about five bases would survive assuming a success rate of 100%, this scenario is only about the Western air command, but it can be applied to the South Western Air command as well. The other five airbases could be taken out by cruise missiles in Pakistani service such as the Babur.[6]

View attachment 621096


@Slav Defence @Irfan Baloch @WebMaster @WAJsal @Horus

These are the major Indian airbases.

And these are the Pakistan airbases, Majority of them with in 100 -150 Km of Indian border.

Now redo your assessment, based on these maps, which country can cripple, who's airforce using MBRLs (even if that were a viable option.

 

[KaiserX]

These are the major Indian airbases.

And these are the Pakistan airbases, Majority of them with in 100 -150 Km of Indian border.

Now redo your assessment, based on these maps, which country can cripple, who's airforce using MBRLs (even if that were a viable option.

Medium range ballistic missiles upto 1200km range
Cruise missiles- Upto 750km range puts the north western airbases all within range

Also it has been clearly stated many times that in this scenario Pakistan would have to be reactive meaning strike first. Any side which strikes first would have a clear advantage... to bad when you guys struck first last year it was a total shit show for ya...

 

[Osiris]

Medium range ballistic missiles upto 1200km range
Cruise missiles- Upto 750km range puts the north western airbases all within range

Also it has been clearly stated many times that in this scenario Pakistan would have to be reactive meaning strike first. Any side which strikes first would have a clear advantage... to bad when you guys struck first last year it was a total shit show for ya...

Ballistic missiles armed with conventional are too expensive and do not cause enough damage to in operationalize an airbase. Iran fired a dozen ballistic missile against Al Assad airbase in Iraq, managed destroy 5 hangars. But airbase was operational within few hours.

 

[KaiserX]

Ballistic missiles armed with conventional are too expensive and do not cause enough damage to in operationalize an airbase. Iran fired a dozen ballistic missile against Al Assad airbase in Iraq, managed destroy 5 hangars. But airbase was operational within few hours.

OSINT shows that the ballistic missiles were accurate to a few meters. Not many weapons were destroyed because they only chose to target the hangars with a 5 hour advanced notice to save face. Also the use of these missiles in Yemen/KSA have shown that they are accurate enough to strike ground targets. Long gone are the days of the SCUD that is off its target by miles. Chinese gyroscope tech is said to be even more advanced than the iranian ones...

Ballistic missiles might be more expensive than cruise missiles but pack a much more powerful punch. In Pakistans case it would be more worthwhile to use missiles in an initial strike followed by fighter jets than vice versa. It wouldnt be worth the risk of sending in jets until half the IAF has been destroyed on the ground via missiles.

Pakistans investment in missiles over the last few decades and its threat of retaliated 3-1 for every indian missile launched last years shows that they are thinking along similar lines...only problem is that they are defensive not offensive

 

[Philip the Arab]

I have come up with extra steps PAF could take disabling IAF even more. Use large barrages of Raad launched by PAF targeting those faraway bases.i

These are the major Indian airbases.

And these are the Pakistan airbases, Majority of them with in 100 -150 Km of Indian border.

Now redo your assessment, based on these maps, which country can cripple, who's airforce using MBRLs (even if that were a viable option.

Lol, major Indian airbases shit map? All it needs is taking out Western Air Command, and South Western Air Command, the rest are insignificant for at least a few weeks.

India has nothing conventional to use buddy that wouldn't arouse suspicion.

 

[KaiserX]

I have come up with extra steps PAF could take disabling IAF even more. Use large barrages of Raad launched by PAF targeting those faraway bases.i

Lol, major Indian airbases shit map? All it needs is taking out Western Air Command, and South Western Air Command, the rest are insignificant for at least a few weeks.

India has nothing conventional to use buddy that wouldn't arouse suspicion.

He didnt even bother posting an accurate map..

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...af-close-to-pak-border/slideshow/68202304.cms

Looks like PAF would be fine taking out all airbases up until Gwalior air base. About 13 air bases total (close to my estimate of 12 ).

Airbases with most squadron are Jodhpur (5), Amabala (3), Gwalior (3), Jamnagar (3).

 

[Philip the Arab]

They have Brahmos which they threatened to launch on 27th feb

They have at the most 50, not enough to destroy even 1 PAF base especially with EW from radars.

It took like 60 to take out a Syrian airbase in 2017.

He didnt even bother posting an accurate map..

Damn, PAF could take out Western, and South Western air command which would be something like at least 30% of IAF if executed correctly.

Again, all it needs to beat IAF is take out AWACS bases, without AWACS IAF will be ravaged in the air.

 

[KaiserX]

They have at the most 50, not enough to destroy even 1 PAF base especially with EW from radars.

It took like 60 to take out a Syrian airbase in 2017.


Damn, PAF could take out Western, and South Western air command which would be something like at least 30% of IAF if executed correctly.

Again, all it needs to beat IAF is take out AWACS bases, without AWACS IAF will be ravaged in the air.

Im estimating more like 50-60% of the whole IAF. We can forget all other assets, Jets/AWACS would be of critical priority.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

He didnt even bother posting an accurate map..

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...af-close-to-pak-border/slideshow/68202304.cms

Looks like PAF would be fine taking out all airbases up until Gwalior air base. About 13 air bases total (close to my estimate of 12 ).

Airbases with most squadron are Jodhpur (5), Amabala (3), Gwalior (3), Jamnagar (3).

Does Jamnagar House Mig29Ks?

 

[Philip the Arab]

Im estimating more like 50-60% of the whole IAF. We can forget all other assets, Jets/AWACS would be of critical priority.

They are in 2 airbases. 2 are in Punjab shouldn't be hard targets. 3 are in Central India in a bunker.

PAF needs solid intel to take them out(which shouldn't be hard), and let's say hypothetically some IAF jets do get in the air. Obviously they will be taken out quite handily without AWACS support.

Does Jamnagar House Mig29Ks?

Yes, they can be hit by MLRS, but that is a different air command all together and I haven't mapped it out yet.