How Pakistan could effectively cripple Indian’s air force with rocket artillery, and what is needed.

[PanzerKiel]

don’t know why people lie so much in PDF

Yes you are right.

don’t know why people lie so much in PDF

... to quote you, if people so much lie on PDF, then i am sure you are sensible enough that you wont like yourself to be found in the company of liars.
Or did you join PDF to make it right and make us all truthful?

AWACS exited and went towards Tibet to run from F-16 and AMRAMS as Pakistan and Chinese are friends so PAF weapons don’t kill anything in China....

Phalcon flight path was well inside in Himachal and was more near to Tibetan border than LOC don’t know why people lie so much in PDF

Getting back to topic...
In case you missed my previously posted message, i said it exited the THEATRE.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theater_(warfare) (Do please read how do you define a THEATRE OF WAR)
In warfare, a theater or theatre is an area in which important military events occur or are progressing.A theater can include the entirety of the airspace, land and sea area that is or that may potentially become involved in war operations.

AWACS exited and went towards Tibet to run from F-16 and AMRAMS as Pakistan and Chinese are friends so PAF weapons don’t kill anything in China....

Phalcon flight path was well inside in Himachal and was more near to Tibetan border than LOC don’t know why people lie so much in PDF

Seems like you misunderstood, from my post, that Phalcon was lurking around right along the LOC, if that is the case then i leave it to you. How you interpret posts here is your personal responsibility.

AWACS exited and went towards Tibet to run from F-16 and AMRAMS as Pakistan and Chinese are friends so PAF weapons don’t kill anything in China....

Phalcon flight path was well inside in Himachal and was more near to Tibetan border than LOC don’t know why people lie so much in PDF

Would be a good gesture if you contact the mods of PDF, do please give them a list of users here who lie, along with the relevant posts as proof. Lets make PDF better.

AWACS exited and went towards Tibet to run from F-16 and AMRAMS as Pakistan and Chinese are friends so PAF weapons don’t kill anything in China....

...And as far as this proposition of yours is concerned, if it is like that PAF weapons dont kill anything in or over China, do please let IAF know this thing well. May save your country a plane or two in the next encounter.

 

[MastanKhan]

Long range multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) are somewhat underappreciated systems that can be used effectively in a suppressive role and are a much cheaper alternative then cruise missiles yet allow much more payload delivered on target. Pakistan could in theory use rocket artillery with ranges varying from 100 to 400km acquired from nations that are recent suppliers of Pakistan that produce these systems namely, Turkey, and China.[1][2] Assuming Pakistan could use its MLRS in an offensive role like how America used its Tomahawk cruise missiles in the early stages of the Iraq war, and more recently in the April 2017 strikes on Syrian airbases thereby rendering roughly 20% of the Syrian air force destroyed. [3]


Currently Pakistan has A-100 which lacks range, and accuracy to hit more then a few airbases without coming very close to the LOC and within striking range of well-placed strikes. I have taken the liberty of making a map of the Western Air Command to the best of my knowledge with public sources with the range of the A-100 overlapped. As you can see at most Pakistan can take out a few airbases with concentrated strikes of 50+ rockets absolutely decimating targets with a large 200kg fragmentation warhead that will decimate aircraft runways and allow PAF aircraft to destroy the aircraft on the ground.[4]

View attachment 621095

One solution to this problem would be Pakistan acquiring longer range MLRS such as the A300 manufactured by China and currently used by the PLA army. The A-300 has a maximum range of 290 kilometers, a 150kg warhead roughly 1/3 the explosives of the Tomahawk and is not bound by MTCR rules which China follows.[5] This range would allow destruction, or a significant disruption in operation of airbases which would allow Pakistani fighters to operate much more easily inside of India without a major fighter threat for at least a few weeks as India is forced to make new airbases and operate further inside of India. I have again taken the liberty of making a map with the A300 launched from or near Lahore overlain over Indian airbases. As is evident, only about five bases would survive assuming a success rate of 100%, this scenario is only about the Western air command, but it can be applied to the South Western Air command as well. The other five airbases could be taken out by cruise missiles in Pakistani service such as the Babur.[6]

View attachment 621096


@Slav Defence @Irfan Baloch @WebMaster @WAJsal @Horus

Hi,

That is a feel good article---. I had written on this subject years ago on this forum---. Did you steal my post on this subject---it is here on this forum---.

As you position your MRL's to hit enemy targets---the enemy can move its MRL's inside of you inner cirlce and target you MRL's---.

But before that---even if you are positioning them---the enemy will become aware of their position and warn you to withdraw them or face consequences---. Don't take the enemy to be a complete idiot.

You may have your 40 miles range MRLS closer to the border---but not your 300 KM ones if you get them---.

MRL's are tactically not very accurate---they are a very good weapon against infantry and light armor vehicles but not against aircraft that are in concrete hangars---.

It is amazing how desperate the pakistani fanboys are on this forum to find fickle ways to fight the enemy air bases---.

Now if you had stated that you could target one enemy air base as you could slip the MRLS within range---I would okay---it is doable---worth the chance---but not five bases---.

 

[Philip the Arab]

MRL's are tactically not very accurate---they are a very good weapon against infantry and light armor vehicles but not against aircraft that are in concrete hangars---.

GPS guided rockets have 30-45 meters CEP and large fragmentation warheads so I would say they are accurate enough.

Now if you had stated that you could target one enemy air base as you could slip the MRLS within range---I would okay---it is doable---worth the chance---but not five bases---.

What do you mean slip within range? You can hide MLRS far inside of Pakistan and target most of WAC bases.

But before that---even if you are positioning them---the enemy will become aware of their position and warn you to withdraw them or face consequences---. Don't take the enemy to be a complete idiot.

At that point war would have already been full blown for at least a few days if not longer. This is something to use when you cannot win conventionally.

haha sounds about right ... 50 Brahmos rofl ...

how many published tests India has conducted for Brahmo —- 70 from 2001 onwards

Start of production— 2004
In production in 2020 BrahmosIII version With more production lines to be added for BrahmosA version

lol ... you can safely assume India has more Brahmo just in ARMY than whole MRLS rocket numbers in Pakistan

50 LACM Brahmos not sea attack, radar seeker Brahmos are useless against land targets.

You may have your 40 miles range MRLS closer to the border---but not your 300 KM ones if you get them---.

They don't need to be close to the border, even 50km inside of Pakistan will allow them to strike targets 240kms away. Groups of at least 5 MLRS plus associated vehicles each targeting 1 airbase and these groups each being 10km away would be hard for India to take out.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Are we comparing MLRs with tomahawk cruise missiles? MLRS are far less less accurate. No guidance. And very limited in range.

Only good for concentration bombing on infantry , light armor and or light concrete buildings.

However they are very cheap but still can't be compared to cruise missile advantages.

 

[Tumba]

50 LACM Brahmos not sea attack, radar seeker Brahmos are useless against land targets.

Brahmos MK1 was sea skimming attack missile
Brahmos MK2 was ground attack missile
Brahmos Mk3 was top down ground attack missile
Brahmos A is Air Launched Cruise Missile

all of above are in production.

Brahmos NG is in development
Brahmos 2 is hypersonic cruise missile in development.

The highest number of inventory is Brahmos Mk2 and Mk3 which are deployed in plenty by Army and Air Force many times overlapping.
All of these are able of strike 450 kms in Top Top low mode and 300 km in Top Lo Lo mode

same for Navy version

Brahmos A has a range of 600 kms as Fighter jet already gives it speed and angle advantages.

Leaving aside Navy version.
If you take a rough estimate Ground Attack version which both Army and Airforce has and is in full production from over a decade is easily in conservative scenario more that 1500.

 

[Rafale+Meteor+Spectra]

SU30 shot down.

No Su-30 were shot down, repeating a lie a 100 times does not make it the truth

IAF was inferior in BVR (R77 vs Aim 120 C5) , AWACS (No AWACS at Indian side), SOW Range (60 km SPICE vs [120 km H4, 60-100 km REKs]), Network Capability (Abhinandone had no idea about situation), Management/Preparedness (Mi-17 shot down) and Jammers. A Force which is inferior in BVR, AWACS, SOW, Network Capability, Management/Preparedness and Jammers should not even think about killing crows and trees of superior force

Aim-120C5 failed to hit a single Su-30.
IAF has 6 AWACS (more on the way)
IAF has Spice 250 with 100-120 km range.
IAF now has BNET SDR which has far better networking capability than anything in PAF.
RAW's Global 5000 have Elta Standoff jammers

 

[kongn]

There are some misconceptions.MBRL rockets are
1.Extremely inaccurate(guided rounds being very costly).
2.Ineffective in mountains(unless at very short ranges) due to slopes blocking rocket trajectory.
3.Ineffective against targets such as hardened aircraft shelters in FOBs which can withstand 1000-2000 LB bomb strikes,and marginally effective against runways.The new IAF base upgradation program that concluded phase 1(FOBs)in dec 2019 replaced concrete runways with fiberglass mats,as well as new hardened shelters being built.It takes six hours to put a runway back in shape with soft concrete even if it is destroyed.For fiberglass mats its even easier,faster and less manpower intensive.The MBRL is primarily a plains weapon,and devastating against soft skinned vehicles and infantry if used as an area saturation weapon.
4.MBRL concentrations are easy to detect in the open plains of punjab and thar with no camouflage available by satellites,drones and ISTAR aircraft.Its highly optimistic to believe that these concentrations will be allowed to mobilize without counter concentration,or that IAF aircraft/drones will sit in their shelters and wait to be hit rather than taking these out at standoff ranges with PGMs,or that they will not be subject to counter battery fire by smerch or pinaka 2 MBRL,or that being close to the border they will not be targeted by nap of the earth flying hit and run apache attacks with hellfires.
These factors need to be counted on.

 

[Philip the Arab]

1.Extremely inaccurate(guided rounds being very costly).

Costly, yet worth it in the long run as it is much cheaper then CMs and other PGMs.

2.Ineffective in mountains(unless at very short ranges) due to slopes blocking rocket trajectory.

You have proof of this?

3.Ineffective against targets such as hardened aircraft shelters in FOBs which can withstand 1000-2000 LB bomb strikes,and marginally effective against runways.

Nope, 200 kgs of a unitary explosives is hard to shrug off. Runways would have huge holes in them, stop speaking out of your ***.

 

[kongn]

Costly, yet worth it in the long run as it is much cheaper then CMs and other PGMs.

You have proof of this?


Nope, 200 kgs of a unitary explosives is hard to shrug off. Runways would have huge holes in them, stop speaking out of your ***.

CMs and PGMs have more explosive power and less vulnerable to being taken out at source due to longer launch range.Either way unless you deliver heavy penetrator warheads to destroy the hardened shelters(generally requires aircraft delivery),or catch aircraft out in the open or in hangars,runways will be back in action in a few hours and not much lasting damage will be done.Ammo storage depot in airfield is a good target however,but it can be underground if the defender is smart.Radar-command stations of the airfield are a soft and much easier target but requires precision to hit.200 KG is merely 450 pounds.Even the older gen blast pens can handle that.Our worry are conventional chinese SRBMs in eastern theatre which is why we started building 108 Next gen hardened shelters with 2000 lb bomb protection in eastern airbases.Pakistan doesnt have enough stock of SRBMs to use more than a handful in conventional role due to cost,whereas PLA have a total of nearly a 1000 SRBMs which makes it necessary to both disperse assets and to build next gen hardened shelters capable of withstanding direct SRBM hit.
https://www.indiastrategic.in/2019/...en-blast-pens-at-strategic-eastern-air-bases/
Holes in runways can be filled with soft concrete/gravel with a mat on top and made useable in a few hours,ask any professional.If the runway was mined by submunition that would delay the process,but not more than 12-24 hours at most.24 US tomahawk cruise missiles struck the syrian airbase and next morning it was launching fighter sorties again as an example.

Basic physics.In mountain terrain you can only use MBRL at very short ranges generally in direct fire mode like pinaka on tiger hill.Long range MBRL is plains weapon,the rockets fired can't fly over mountain peaks and slopes 10-20,000 feet high.Even a steep ravine would prematurely detonate rockets.Its for the same reason targets on reverse slope in mountains are immune to most artillery fire unless you use guided shells like excalibur.Terrain matters.So the idea of decimating srinagar FOB with MBRL would require magical phasing technology to phase the rockets through the pir panjal range.

These are current main indian airbases.
MBRL tactics that you are proposing with A-100(40-100km range)are viable mostly for FOBs in punjab .
Pathankot from shakargarh is 40 km is within effective strike range,from sialkot is 100 km plus at max range.
Adampur to Lahore outskirts is 120 km.Beyond max range.
Lahore to Halwara is 150 km,and thus beyond.Even if you take a risk and bring it right upto border near kasur still 120 km from kasur to halwara.Pakpattan to sirsa is 180 km,same for bawahalnagar.Bawahalnagar to suratgarh 100km, fort abbas to suratgarh approx same.So at most pathankot and suratgarh can be targeted.Both of which have obsolete mig21 bisons.Apaches at pathankot are a high value target though.