How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[dbc]

Yes. Phalcons can able to track multiple, fast manoeuvring targets at a range of up to 250 miles (400km). This means it can agument the IAF strike packages whithout leaving the Indian airspace. This in addition to Indian ground radars along the borders, satellites and MKI's BARS radar if used effectively will give it a definite advantage.

I assume there are highways near the Pakistan's border with India long enough to launch a few JF-17's carrying MAR-1.
Flying nap of the earth these can get close enough to represent s serious threat to the AWACS. PAF may succeed in forcing a retreat by removing the Phalcon from the equation leaving your strike force without coverage. I don't know the latest on the IAF's Combined Interrogator Transponder (CIT) project, if its not fully operational then the JF-17's have a reasonable chance at getting close to the Phalcon. Even if the JF-17's are detected close to the Pakistan-India border the Phalcon will retreat to beyond 100 kms reducing its influence on the battle.

Pakistan may sneak a few 'combatants' with MANPADS close enough to the Indian AWACS base. The point I'm trying to make is don't take your numerical or tech superiority for granted for those who have seen war there are plenty of things that can go horribly wrong.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

I assume there are highways near the Pakistan's border with India long enough to launch a few JF-17's carrying MAR-1.
Flying nap of the earth these can get close enough to represent s serious threat to the AWACS. PAF may succeed in forcing a retreat by removing the Phalcon from the equation leaving your strike force without coverage. I don't know the latest on the IAF's Combined Interrogator Transponder (CIT) project, if its not fully operational then the JF-17's have a reasonable chance at getting close to the Phalcon. Even if the JF-17's are detected close to the Pakistan-India border the Phalcon will retreat to beyond 100 kms reducing its influence on the battle.

Pakistan may sneak a few 'combatants' with MANPADS close enough to the Indian AWACS base. The point I'm trying to make is don't take your numerical or tech superiority for granted for those who have seen war there are plenty of things that can go horribly wrong.

So you are saying that you will enter Indian airspace and shoot down our AWACS and won't be intercepted in the way? Also, how will you know the location of AWACS in the first place, AWACS won't come near the border till our own air superiority jets are inside pakistani airspace.

 

[dbc]

So you are saying that you will enter Indian airspace and shoot down our AWACS and won't be intercepted in the way? Also, how will you know the location of AWACS in the first place, AWACS won't come near the border till our own air superiority jets are inside pakistani airspace.

How do you locate the AWACS? Are you serious?

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

How do you locate the AWACS? Are you serious?

Yes. Kindly tell me. How will you locate it, then enter our airspace without being intercepted, then fry our AWACS, and return back to pakistan safely? Ever heard of escort aircraft?

 

[Mujraparty]

I assume there are highways near the Pakistan's border with India long enough to launch a few JF-17's carrying MAR-1.
Flying nap of the earth these can get close enough to represent s serious threat to the AWACS. PAF may succeed in forcing a retreat by removing the Phalcon from the equation leaving your strike force without coverage. I don't know the latest on the IAF's Combined Interrogator Transponder (CIT) project, if its not fully operational then the JF-17's have a reasonable chance at getting close to the Phalcon. Even if the JF-17's are detected close to the Pakistan-India border the Phalcon will retreat to beyond 100 kms reducing its influence on the battle.

The city-based Centre for Air-Borne Systems (CABS), an arm of DRDO, has successfully developed and productionised the ‘Identification of Friend or Foe’ (IFF) System, which will be fitted on the Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft that will be received shortly from Brazil.

TheIFFMk-12(S) system comprises three elements — interrogator, transponder and combined interrogator transponder (CIT).

..................................

 

[dbc]

So you are saying that you will enter Indian airspace and shoot down our AWACS and won't be intercepted in the way? Also, how will you know the location of AWACS in the first place, AWACS won't come near the border till our own air superiority jets are inside pakistani airspace.

Sure, a few may be intercepted in time but it will force the AWACS off station and that is mission accomplished for the PAF.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Sure, a few may be intercepted in time but it will force the AWACS off station and that is mission accomplished for the PAF.

Not few. All, remember who has numerical strength. And its not PAF.

Btw, why are you talking about AWACS in the first place? This thread is about stopping the MKI isn't it? MKI itself can function as a mini AWACS, and it carrier 14 BVR missiles too.

 

[DARKY]

I assume there are highways near the Pakistan's border with India long enough to launch a few JF-17's carrying MAR-1.
Flying nap of the earth these can get close enough to represent s serious threat to the AWACS. PAF may succeed in forcing a retreat by removing the Phalcon from the equation leaving your strike force without coverage. I don't know the latest on the IAF's Combined Interrogator Transponder (CIT) project, if its not fully operational then the JF-17's have a reasonable chance at getting close to the Phalcon. Even if the JF-17's are detected close to the Pakistan-India border the Phalcon will retreat to beyond 100 kms reducing its influence on the battle.

Pakistan may sneak a few 'combatants' with MANPADS close enough to the Indian AWACS base. The point I'm trying to make is don't take your numerical or tech superiority for granted for those who have seen war there are plenty of things that can go horribly wrong.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/51985-thales-chosen-modernise-iff-india-s-mig-29-a.html

You mean something like this.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/219130-attack-pakistans-erieye.html

IAF Phalcons are spread out 1000Km apart and on different bases well over 1000Km from Pakistan Border.

 

[airomerix]

Matra was never a BVR. You are insulting yourself.

Matra R530 was always a medium range radar guided air to air missile.

I don't care about your opinions on R73 or R77, it is clear if you had a source for proving the superiority of AMRAAM, you would have posted it by now.

Russian AAMs are always primitive compared to Western weapons. AA-8 (R-60) v/s AIM-9L etc. So there is no surprise if R-77 is piece of junk when compared with AMRAAM. The word is that the R77 has better aerodynamic performance (G's, speed, manueverability) but the AMRAAM has better radar, ECCM and guidance. And this is why it is called 'Fire and Forget' missile.

 

[DARKY]

Sure, a few may be intercepted in time but it will force the AWACS off station and that is mission accomplished for the PAF.

IAF Phalcon even being 100 miles inside the Indian border can see what is going on 200 miles inside the Pakistan border such is its coverage.

 

[dbc]

Yes. Kindly tell me. How will you locate it, then enter our airspace without being intercepted, then fry our AWACS, and return back to pakistan safely? Ever heard of escort aircraft?

Locating the AWACS is easy it emits a lot of radiation. The Phalcon is worth the loss of a few JF-17's. And yes the JF-17's can take off from highways, regardless of fighter escort cover the AWACS will retreat it is too valuable to take chances with. The scenario I described has been tried in mock combat and has a decent chance of succeeding.

 

[Shadow_Hunter]

Matra R530 was always a medium range radar guided air to air missile.



Russian AAMs are always primitive compared to Western weapons. AA-8 (R-60) v/s AIM-9L etc. So there is no surprise if R-77 is piece of junk when compared with AMRAAM. The word is that the R77 has better aerodynamic performance (G's, speed, manueverability) but the AMRAAM has better radar, ECCM and guidance. And this is why it is called 'Fire and Forget' missile.

We are talking about BVR here, not medium range. Mirages were never BVR ready, case closed.

About Russian AAMs, your chinese friends seem to disagree.

R-73 (AA-11) Short-Range Air-to-Air Missile - SinoDefence.com

 

[dbc]

IAF Phalcon even being 100 miles inside the Indian border can see what is going on 200 miles inside the Pakistan border such is its coverage.

and the MAR-1 has a range of 100 kms, flying full AB how long do you thing the PAF will take to get to launch range?

 

[dbc]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/51985-thales-chosen-modernise-iff-india-s-mig-29-a.html

IAF Phalcons are spread out 1000Km apart and on different bases well over 1000Km from Pakistan Border.

Are you saying an enemy combatant can't catch a train or drive to the base with a hidden MANPAD? He or she will look like an Indian, talk like an Indian and probably carry fake Indian ID. Is this far fetched?

 

[DARKY]

Russian AAMs are always primitive compared to Western weapons. AA-8 (R-60) v/s AIM-9L etc. So there is no surprise if R-77 is piece of junk when compared with AMRAAM. The word is that the R77 has better aerodynamic performance (G's, speed, manueverability) but the AMRAAM has better radar, ECCM and guidance. And this is why it is called 'Fire and Forget' missile.

There is no fire and forget for the Aim120C5 If the F-16 turns away just after the launch.

However when we talk about RVV-AE/RVV-AE-SD on a Su30MKI... It is a different thing... with the rear facing radar and much wider coverage the the main radar alone... which supports multiple engagements much easily done well within upto 120 degree arc.

Besides that It is not necessary that Russian AAMs are good at Kinematics and US AMMs good at Electronics... for instance RVV-SD is mch better than Aim120C5 in electronics however inferior to Aim120D in kinematics... thanks to the dual-pulse rocket motors... similarly R-73M/74 is a far superior missile as compared with Aim9L/M which PAF fields.