How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[farhan_9909]

BTW how is F-16 going to evade Python-4?
SIPRI revealed that we acquired a Python-4's in 2007.

python 4?

oh yeah we will receive python 4 alternative aka ''maa-1b'' next month

now tell me how will MKI escape from maa-1b lock?

along with jft 2 with klj7v2

 

[danger007]

just a messenger

"Internet Hindus" caught in online frays | The Stream - Al Jazeera English




I am just the messenger
"Internet Hindus" caught in online frays | The Stream - Al Jazeera English

you just confirmed what the news item says with your bolding of letters and shooting the gun.

thanks

Let it be bro... you don't need to go off-topic.... come back to topic....

just a messenger

"Internet Hindus" caught in online frays | The Stream - Al Jazeera English




I am just the messenger
"Internet Hindus" caught in online frays | The Stream - Al Jazeera English

you just confirmed what the news item says with your bolding of letters and shooting the gun.

thanks

Let it be bro... you don't need to go off-topic.... come back to topic....

Long enough for the Indians to retreat.

The entire premise behind India's new war-fighting doctrine is to fight a short war without reaching the nuclear threshold. Indians are expecting to fight a war for 96 hours in this new strategy, that means PAF has more than enough reserves to keep afloat during this time period.

Don't be fanboy..... This is not proper answer... can you enlighten me...

 

[Windjammer]

@ topic.... PAF main AIM is to restrict the advancement of MKI ..... and there is no necessity of superior JETS to restrict advancement..... PAF can hold it's airspace..... but the question is how long????

If the scenario is played out, then certainly how long.....
How long is a piece of string......how long will the world sit uneasy while the two nuclear powers battle it out......how long the war will remain conventional......i say it's anybody's guess. !!

 

[karan.1970]

After Pakistan purchased it's initial 40 F-16s, the Indians went berserk with a spending spree, purchasing MiG-23s, Mirage-2000 and the MiG-29

PAF ordered the F 16s from USA in 1981 and the 1st delivery was in 1983, whereas evaluation of Mig 29 for IAF began in 1980...And I think, the 1st Mig 23 entered service with IAF in 1980 as well... Also wasnt the initial plan had a figure of 111 111 F 16s. But after the delivery of 1st 40, USA decided to sanction Pakistan and hold back the balance due to the infamous Presseler Act..??

 

[dbc]

Nops, but i remember you to be good at this, such short analysis were not what you were used to be good at and known for

I just wanna say, i was expecting more out of you.

You want me to write a lengthy analysis about the Su-30 MKI's range and buddy refueling capability?

 

[TaimiKhan]

You want me to write a lengthy analysis about the Su-30 MKI's range and buddy refueling capability?

Nops, i wanted you to write a fair analysis taking into consideration all factors and both sides.

We all know about what MKI is and what it can do and what its worth.

 

[Windjammer]

PAF ordered the F 16s from USA in 1981 and the 1st delivery was in 1983, whereas evaluation of Mig 29 for IAF began in 1980...And I think, the 1st Mig 23 entered service with IAF in 1980 as well... Also wasnt the initial plan had a figure of 111 111 F 16s. But after the delivery of 1st 40, USA decided to sanction Pakistan and hold back the balance due to the infamous Presseler Act..??

According to Pushpinder Singh, "The purchase of 40 F-16 by PAF did more for IAF within a decade than what the bureaucrats may have allowed in 30 years.! ( Breakdown of type and quantity of aircraft given).

 

[karan.1970]

According to Pushpinder Singh, "The purchase of 40 F-16 by PAF did more for IAF within a decade than what the bureaucrats may have allowed in 30 years.! ( Breakdown of type and quantity of aircraft given).

I still dont see how Mig 29 for which the ordering process began in 1980 be a reaction to PAF's ordering of F 16 in 1981 ....

PS: ( Breakdown of type and quantity of aircraft given) .. where.. Link???

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@ topic.... PAF main AIM is to restrict the advancement of MKI ..... and there is no necessity of superior JETS to restrict advancement..... PAF can hold it's airspace..... but the question is how long????

the subject is aimed at Indian primary air asset and PAF's likely counter strategy to it. when the forces will face off in the air they wont be posting comments and waiting for the replies to quote them and respond back. so the "restrictions" will be in the form of missiles flying about. how it will do it is anyone's guess based on what front line fighters are and what front line ground based air defenses are available to it


thats very true re ( unlimited amount of time to hold on)

mind you.. the air war is very short. we are not talking about planes and pilots being mass produced by the opposing forces like in WW1 and WW2.

I doubt that either side will continue to press on despite suffering a dozen of air losses. so PAF might not have to hold on and defend for too long (too long? whats too long? do you know? I dont)

again its my hypothesis, the air chiefs of either forces might decide that its ok to loose 100s of air crafts and continue with the campaign.

 

[manofwar]

python 4?

oh yeah we will receive python 4 alternative aka ''maa-1b'' next month

now tell me how will MKI escape from maa-1b lock?

along with jft 2 with klj7v2

As was extensively discussed earlier, Bars had a range of 140kms at 5m2 RCS, while Klj7v2 had a 120km range at 5m2.
It was a general coensus that due to the Su 30's overall dismal RCS, the radars of both the plane will be able to locate and lock each other at the same time. Now comes the part which you miss- Does PAF have a missile with long enough range, so it can counter Su 30??It hsa Ra'ad with a range of 350kms, which is unfortunately subsonic. So, no it does not.
On the other hand , we have K-100 Novator, the "AWACS Killer" with a range of 400 kms and a speed of Mach 3.2. Thus, we will be able to utilize our full range of Su 30's radars............

 

[The_Sidewinder]

@irfan sir
now thats a sensible reply..
Coz we can both sides can only can do bla bla thing via internet, but real pilots will fight he wars. We will than no the real capabilities of aircrafts. Coz when first missile will be fired, all the strategies, doctrains, assumed scenarios will go invain.
Thnxxxx
But I hope that day will never come.

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

You want me to write a lengthy analysis about the Su-30 MKI's range and buddy refueling capability?

--Looking forward for some informative posts. thread is not worth replying so far.

 

[Harry Potter]

Chaffs, flares, evasive manoeuvres, ECM and several other tactics a pilot can employ to shake off a WVR missile. Problem is that WVR missiles have a great kill ratio due to the reduced range. The lesser the range is, the great the probability of a kill.

The question you should be asking is what will the MKI pilot do to shake of the AIM9-M from its tale. I would put my money on the AIM9-M due to the sheer R&D and testing this missile has gone through. Python 4 no matter how innovative it is, cannot match the reliability of the AIM9-M. Those huge exhaust engines off the MKI will be a magnet for a IR seeking missile which will home in right at those engines due to their massive IR signature.

Chaff,flares,evasive maneuvers are time tested methods but they are no longer effective in front of modern WVR like Python 4.

See the Video where Oron Oriel who was in Python 4 development team mention that a Python 4's computer is way ahead of an computer of an F-16!!.

Anything that flies can be brought down. This is where the tactics come in. It will be upto PAF how effectively they employ Babur to overcome Indian defences. Babur is a subsonic missile which is designed to fly low, huge the terrain so it can evade the radar. How good Babur is or how good IAF radar system is to track low flying cruise missiles is up for the professionals to answer.

Countering Cruise Missiles like Babur and Stand-off weapons is the main role of Spyder in IAF.YOu will see the recent induction of MKI's in Rajasthan was with Spyder deployment in base along with AESA radar.

Force multipliers

AWACS enable PAF to look deep into IAF territory without getting close to the danger line. Any airborne IAF asset will be tracked by the AWACS and any low flying strike package will be spotted too. Instead of loading up every aircraft with an expensive radar, AWACS enables PAF to data-link all her assets giving them a comprehensive situational awareness. In the past the MKI could fly with impunity with its exceptional PESA radar. It enabled the MKI to look deep into PAF territory without crossing the border. Now this has changed. I would argue the AWACS are without a doubt the single most precious asset in PAF's inventory.

A2A refuelling allows PAF to increase the endurance of its planes. The biggest hurdle that PAF faced in the past was that its airplanes had short legs. An aircraft burns almost half of its fuel during take off due to the usage of its after burner. Now PAF can load its planes with heavy ordinance, fill enough fuel for it to take off and than refuel in the air. This increases the endurance of the aircraft. Now our Mirage V can carry out long range precision strikes close to the border, in the past PAF did not have this luxury.

A rank 0 noob knows what are advantages of AWACS and A2A refueling
My point was that AWACS and A2A refueling is present with IAF too and is not the sole property of PAF.

Thats why i love the AIM120. As soon as the opposing pilot tries to jam the AIM 120, it switches its Active Sensors into Passive Sensors and homes into the jamming source . So far the pilots using the AIM120 have not faced any problems even though its a semi active missile. Its quality and its kill ratio speaks for itself .

I think you wanted to say it's an Active Missile.

Anyways as IAF is most probably going to be on the offensive it will have a good advantage over PAF
An offensive approach has many advantages. It keeps the initiative and forces the enemy to react. It carries the war to the enemy. It makes maximum use of aircraft and keeps great pressure on the enemy. Finally, assuming the offensive operations are against an appropriate center of gravity, collateral damage probably will be inflicted on facilities that would be attacked in the next phase of operations.
A defensive force needs 2:1 advantage over the offensive force(Assuming both are technologically of the same level).

Whenever possible, the offensive course should be selected -- if for no other reason than that it is a positive measure that will lead to positive results.

 

[mylovepakistan]

As was extensively discussed earlier, Bars had a range of 140kms at 5m2 RCS, while Klj7v2 had a 120km range at 5m2.
It was a general coensus that due to the Su 30's overall dismal RCS, the radars of both the plane will be able to locate and lock each other at the same time. Now comes the part which you miss- Does PAF have a missile with long enough range, so it can counter Su 30??It hsa Ra'ad with a range of 350kms, which is unfortunately subsonic. So, no it does not.
On the other hand , we have K-100 Novator, the "AWACS Killer" with a range of 400 kms and a speed of Mach 3.2. Thus, we will be able to utilize our full range of Su 30's radars............

official link please for k-100 you are talking about..

 

[Viper0011.]

@ topic.... PAF main AIM is to restrict the advancement of MKI ..... and there is no necessity of superior JETS to restrict advancement..... PAF can hold it's airspace..... but the question is how long????

Well, the how long depends on how the world can pis* in their pants and uncomfortably scrambling all available options to stop the conflict. This is the stupidest part about this region, you are both nuclear, you are BOTH poor and you are BOTH neighbors!!!! One conflicts or one hundred, you'll still be sharing borders, culture and similarities. So why not turn that negative energy into trade and towards human prosperity???

Btw, I've read all the posts above and I hate to disagree with many of them. The Indian members (as always and unfortunately) love to portray themselves as the next US. That is NOT and will NEVER be the case. The python 4, 9 and 11, the K-100 and K 900's don't mean crap. Nothing is 100% guaranteed. It's been projected in a way that India is much superior and they can stop any attack. I am concerned as if this is the mentality in the Indian military's hq, there may be a severe conflict that may result in loss of human life. So I hope and pray that such testy mentality has some oversight from calm people who can think realistically!

And yes, I think I've already mentioned many times that SU-30 with its load carrying capability, buddy refueling, two pilots and twin turbine is a superior aspect. BUT that doesn't mean it can't be locked upon. It just means more headache for the Pakistanis.