How many sabres were captured?

[SQ8]

Is victory defined by you as being badly shot and damaged and limping back to your home base?!?!? Unbelievable , the guy who barely made it home is the victor? Have you taken all leave of common sense?

The 4 Indian Gnat pilots were Flt Lt Roy Andrew Massey, Fg Offr SF Soarez, Flt Lt MA Ganapathy and Fg Offr D Lazarus.

They all made it home, intact and on their own steam. Here is what these four heros were guilty of:

The control tower :'We have four Gnats beating up the airfield and Calcutta at low level for the past ten minutes!'. The victorious Gnat pilots have returned from the sortie and proceeded to do a royal lowlevel beatup of Calcutta and the environs. The Bengali populace could only glance up in curiosity and amusement at the continous roar of the Orpheous engines as the Gnats made several passes over the city before landing back at Dum Dum as they started nearing the end of thier fuel reserves."

A field day for the Church of India as you can tell from the names, no doubt

This incident may be verified by other sources.. but you will have to wait till the evening.
Since your story is from one angle and it clearly shows in the bravado used by the text.

 

[Areesh]

Also the sort of language used in the study makes it very clear that it was written in a very biased state.
What other reason would the author give credibility treason.. and the triumph of democracy over dictatorship in a study on kills.
So Im going to disregard this report.

Not only that the source is highly biased but it also gives us a hint about the state of mind of the person who is using it as a credible source.

 

[Ganga]

As far as I know , no Indian jet was lost over Boyra.

 

[John Doe]

This incident may be verified by other sources.. but you will have to wait till the evening.
Since your story is from one angle and it clearly shows in the bravado used by the text.

I should have given the source, my bad.It is written by Jagan, but forum rules will not let me post BR links.

About the 1st link I posted, it was written by B.Harry, a very informative young guy. I realize it is very pro-India, but try to ignore the bias and glance at the factual stuff.

OT, the gold standard in defense history writing must be Kaiser Tufail.

 

[SQ8]

I should have given the source, my bad.It is written by Jagan, but forum rules will not let me post BR links.

About the 1st link I posted, it was written by B.Harry, a very informative young guy. I realize it is very pro-India, but try to ignore the bias and glance at the factual stuff.

OT, the gold standard in defense history writing must be Kaiser Tufail.

Ama yar that is the problem..
The guy's prose has left me wondering what is factual or not..

 

[Areesh]

Ama yar that is the problem..
The guy's prose has left me wondering what is factual or not..

 

[SQ8]

John

The three pilots who shot down IAF aircraft were content with having joined the elite club of fighter pilots with aerial kills. A month after the war, the PAF was able to line up 22 Mirages for all to see on the tarmac at Sargodha, while the 23rd Mirage was under maintenance in a hangar.[6] The impressive sight belied claims of any losses that had been incurred by the Mirage fleet during the war.

Aeronaut: Mirages at War

 

[Windjammer]

@ Santro,

The occasion author mentioned is what I posted and explained to JD some where else, but he was more inquisitive about the white marks that appeared on the image....... waste of space if you ask me.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/TLCPrado/scan0001-6.jpg

Read under conflicting claims.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt269/TheHoustonRocket/scan0005-3.jpg?t=1277801953

 

[Myth_buster_1]

My question satisfies your definition of captured.Pakistan did not leave those jets behind.They were still there when the Indians came and took possession by force .

So Indian military was shown resistance when they tried capturing those self destruct sabres? Im sure those dismantled sabres showed a lot of resistance and only one Indian jawan with his kitchen knife managed to breach in the air base and captured the planes from the hands of Pakistanis. Im sure this will make a good chapter in one of many Indian mythological books.

 

[Jango]

Good debate going on, nice info as well.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

@ Santro,

The occasion author mentioned is what I posted and explained to JD some where else, but he was more inquisitive about the white marks that appeared on the image....... waste of space if you ask me.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u311/TLCPrado/scan0001-6.jpg

Read under conflicting claims.

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt269/TheHoustonRocket/scan0005-3.jpg?t=1277801953

John frickr was a ISI agent who was paid to wright this propaganda. Pakistani books lies only Indian books tells the truth.

 

[ARSENAL6]

/////// deleted

 

[deckingraj]

So Indian military was shown resistance when they tried capturing those self destruct sabres? Im sure those dismantled sabres showed a lot of resistance and only one Indian jawan with his kitchen knife managed to breach in the air base and captured the planes from the hands of Pakistanis. Im sure this will make a good chapter in one of many Indian mythological books.

So as per you the terminology used should be...PAF surrendered their sabres to IAF and not captured???

---------- Post added at 11:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 AM ----------

John frickr was a ISI agent who was paid to wright this propaganda. Pakistani books lies only Indian books tells the truth.

I don't think anyone claimed that...However there are certain aspects in both the theories which are questionable....If Pakistani books are telling the truth then certainly Indian one's are as well...and if Pakistani books have certain lies then certainly India one's as well...The truth lies somewhere in the middle...

 

[SQ8]

To end the Sabre riddle..
After the runaway at Tejagon and Dhaka was wrecked beyond repair.. the PAF decided to abandon posts since the Army was surrendering.
To that end they planned to blow the F-86's up. However Gen "tiger" Niazi requested the PAF base commander not to blow the sabre's up citing that the noise may demoralize his troops(how much further demoralization was possible after surrender..I fail to understand).. My theory on this is that there was some deal with Niazi and the occupation forces that if maximum hardware was left intact for the Mukti Bahni to capture some lenincy would be shown to the POW's.
Still.. the PAF officer's ordered the engines and other vital electronics of the F-86's riddled with gunfire...and then left.
However.. some spare parts did survive and Bengali personnel of the PAF who had worked on the jets were able to get one or two airborne again.

 

[Zabaniyah]

To end the Sabre riddle..
After the runaway at Tejagon and Dhaka was wrecked beyond repair.. the PAF decided to abandon posts since the Army was surrendering.
To that end they planned to blow the F-86's up. However Gen "tiger" Niazi requested the PAF base commander not to blow the sabre's up citing that the noise may demoralize his troops(how much further demoralization was possible after surrender..I fail to understand).. My theory on this is that there was some deal with Niazi and the occupation forces that if maximum hardware was left intact for the Mukti Bahni to capture some lenincy would be shown to the POW's.
Still.. the PAF officer's ordered the engines and other vital electronics of the F-86's riddled with gunfire...and then left.
However.. some spare parts did survive and Bengali personnel of the PAF who had worked on the jets were able to get one or two airborne again.

That is 100% correct.

Had the F-86s been captured by the Indians, they wouldn't have been in BAF service in the first place!

The Indians captured many M-48s though.