How Kashmir was stolen from Pakistan by Mountbatten

[Joe Shearer]

Because Sindh was a Muslim Majority State/Province. Punjab was also a Muslim majority State, so it should have come to Pakistan as a whole. The whole division of Punjab and Bengal was unjust as they were both MUSLIM MAJORITY STATES.

It would be so nice if people did their homework before commenting.

Sind was never part of the Pakistan movement. There was a vigorous and active Sind-first movement under G. M. Sayed which opposed the Muslim League. It was an unwilling Sind that was awarded to Pakistan by Radcliffe, solely on the basis of the agreement worked out at high level, between the leaders, and contrary to the wishes of the Sindi people.

In case you don't know, NWFP was also hostile to the partition. Bacha Khan called it a betrayal. And as for Punjab, the feudals vehemently opposed the League until the end, when they came on board to protect their privileges, which they did with brilliant success so far.

When you talk about the people of Kashmir, you make two errors: you forget the people of Sind and of NWFP, and you have no clue about what Kashmiris really wanted.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

This was a downright mischievous post.

The Radcliffe Commission made many compromises, on both sides. You have quoted one, although there were decisions made in favour of Pakistan (some already pointed out).



It could have been done if the initial post had not been worded as it was. If you want a discussion on facts, and on issues, you have the duty of defining the topic rather more completely than we got. As it stands, it is an open invitation to riot.

When he started talking about ayodhya massacres , an event that never happened in the first place , I knew having a discussion with him based on facts was impossible .

 

[Joe Shearer]

Hello ! I'm an ethnic Kashmiri myself...no way do we want 'Independence' either...! Maybe some guys on the Indian side of Kashmir but here in Pakistan - Proud to be a Pakistani, sir jee !

There are a dozen different reasons why we shouldn't be with Pakistan but we followed Jinnah to get 'Our Pakistan', we gave so many sacrifices to have a homeland of our and by God we're not going to give up on it...just yet !

P.S Don't pull any surveys, guys ! Around 4 families on my Dad's side were cut down in Jammu and near Srinagar...so nah, we're pretty set calling ourselves Pakistanis ! And so are those of my family who remained on the Indian side...about 3 families left.

In fair exchange, I suggest that you approach the topic not from your personal family point of view but from the factual point of view about the situation at large.

The sovereign of Kashmir was the Maharaja. He had sovereign authority to decide whom to join. He used those powers, after an invasion, not of Mirpuris or of Muslims from Jammu, who were not ethnic Kashmiris anyway.

The popular leader of Kashmir was Sheikh Abdullah. He and his National Conference were opposed by fringe elements in the Jammu and the Muzaffarabad area, who favoured Pakistan. The bulk of the people followed Abdullah's leadership and participated in the defence of the Valley against the invaders.

It seems that most people commenting on the events of 1948 have no clue about what actually happened, but are going by urban legend.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

In fair exchange, I suggest that you approach the topic not from your personal family point of view but from the factual point of view about the situation at large.

The sovereign of Kashmir was the Maharaja. He had sovereign authority to decide whom to join. He used those powers, after an invasion, not of Mirpuris or of Muslims from Jammu, who were not ethnic Kashmiris anyway.

The popular leader of Kashmir was Sheikh Abdullah. He and his National Conference were opposed by fringe elements in the Jammu and the Muzaffarabad area, who favoured Pakistan. The bulk of the people followed Abdullah's leadership and participated in the defence of the Valley against the invaders.

It seems that most people commenting on the events of 1948 have no clue about what actually happened, but are going by urban legend.

Urban Legend -

Yes , a good two word summary of pakistani history education

 

[Joe Shearer]

The rule was that those States with Muslim Majority had to go to Pakistan. All the States of West Pakistan had Muslim majority including Punjab, so according to the guiding principle there should not have been any division of Punjab. Similarly Bengal was a Muslim majority area and there was no Justification of division of Bengal.

Both East Punjab and West Bengal were stolen by India in contravention to the guiding Priciple of Partition.

You are wrong, and totally uninformed.

There were in fact two guiding principles (not rules).

One was that there would be two Muslim majority groups, to be defined, formed around the Muslim majorities in the north west and in the east. There was no commitment about entire provinces. The precise definition was to be adjudicated, and it was, by a five person commission headed by Radcliffe, a British judge. This commission defined the precise lines, and sought to keep contiguity as far as possible. We have already seen that this was a guideline, and vast concessions were made to common sense. If this had not been done, today Pakistan would not have had Lahore and Karachi. Your biggest cities would have been Multan, Quetta, Peshawar, Hyderabad.

The second was that the Indian princes would once more be independent.

I think you are seriously confused. The terrorism started because of the injustices of Kashmir. Please don't put the Cart in front of the horse.

Talking of carts and horses, the terrorism - murder, rape and abduction, and widespread looting - started in 1948.

Guess who it was?

Really ? The 90% Happy include the 3000+ Gujarati Muslims Massacred on Modi's orders.

So the 3000+ innocent Indian Muslims who were Slaughtered died HAPPY ?

Or the Muslims butchered during the Ayodhya Massacre were dying HAPPILY by the Hindu Fundamentalists.

Are'nt you even Embarrased making such Bogus and BS claims ?

Or are you so brainwashed that you have lost sight of right and wrong ?

This has nothing to do with the loss of Kashmir due to a biased award by Radcliffe, the cornerstone of this thread.

What happened is Gujarat is something that was criminal, the result of a criminal conspiracy. It has nothing to do with the way our country is, and the way it is run. When you talk about it, please try not to use the deaths of innocents as propaganda pieces; 748 Muslims died, and that was 748 too many. In contrast, in my state, there have has been one communal riot in the last forty years, one in which a Hindu was injured and died.

Try to keep the discussion from sliding further into the gutter.

 

[Speaker]

Let us just say, Pakistani leaders were Gentlemen and not as devious and immoral as the Indian ones.

Everybody knows about the affair Nehru was having with Mrs. Mountbatten ( a married woman).

Mountbatten has enough accounts of where he casts doubts on the abilities and intentions of Jinnah over the other politicians of the day (Including LAK) and none of them described MAJ as a gentleman. Anyway, you are bringing way too many out-of-topic unsubstantiated topics in this discussion.

 

[jbond197]

First of all let's clear some misconceptions about Gurdaspur. People are claiming that it was Muslim majority district which is plain wrong. They were in majority only if Qadianis are counted as Muslims, the very idea, which most of the Muslim clerics of that time were rock solidly against.. So stop the farce of claiming it Muslim majority..

Rest, about Kashmir, I would only say stop dreaming. Kashmir is there where it belongs.. Learn to accept the facts/realities of life.. You have already messed yourself up enough due to this obsession which is not worth your people's life, money, blood.. Better forget it and concentrate on getting rid of terrorism from your land..

 

[jbond197]

during census in Gurdaspur, Qadianis strategically differentiated themselves from the Muslim population which finally made Gurdaspur a part of India. This development also provided India a safe ground access to Kashmir, and India easily occupied Kashmir.

Qadianis opposed Muslim League during freedom movement| Pakistan News

Pakistanis never considered Qadinianis as Muslims and even during meetings with Radcliffe Qadianis strategically differentiated themselves from Muslim population.. But now most of the Pakistani Kids on one hand counts Ahmadis as Non-Muslims but on the other hand want to show them as Muslims just to get their purpose served.. How Cheap can one get?? I pity such sick people!!

 

[Pakistanisage]

Mountbatten has enough accounts of where he casts doubts on the abilities and intentions of Jinnah over the other politicians of the day (Including LAK) and none of them described MAJ as a gentleman. Anyway, you are bringing way too many out-of-topic unsubstantiated topics in this discussion.

This is not OFF TOPIC because it shows how Nehru Manipulated MOUNTBATTEN who in turn used his bias against the Muslims. This is not my assessment, I am only reporting that which is widely known. Please read abouyt it and inform yourself.


The shocking love triangle between Lord Mountbatten, his wife and the founder of modern India | Mail Online

 

[Joe Shearer]

Problem is you Indian growup with flase history. You are beyond fix.

There are 500k Indian army soldiers posted in Kashmir and you call it better?

Apparently Indian Kashmir is worst than Syria and is like this since last 60 years.

If you were not a complete slave to muscle-bound thinking and rhetoric, you would ask yourself the question: how oppressive can things be, when unarmed women have no fear of standing around an armed man and making hostile demonstrations? Or that kids can chuck stones at armed people with no fear of being shot?

 

[RazPaK]

Joe shearer, after reading your posts I've come to the conclusion that you have commendable ability for sugar coating, rather than being intellectually honest. Much like Jinnah and Nehru during the partition movement.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The 200,000 Kashmiris you have butchered are not Punjabi Taliban , my friend. They are from Sirinagar valley and are Kashmiris. I think you need to come out of Denial, Son.

Perhaps a touch of realism on both sides would be nice to see.

Why don't you stop concocting figures, and he agrees not to use the phrase Punjabi Taliban?

 

[SamantK]

Joe shearer, after reading your posts I've come to the conclusion that you have commendable ability for sugar coating, rather than being intellectually honest. Much like Jinnah and Nehru during the partition movement.

dude, first debunk the points he has put forward, then you can comment on his dishonesty. He is more knowledgeable than my father and your father combined...

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe shearer, after reading your posts I've come to the conclusion that you have commendable ability for sugar coating, rather than being intellectually honest. Much like Jinnah and Nehru during the partition movement.

I don't write for good chits. The day you contribute usefully - to any thread - it will be useful to read your conclusions.

The last time I read your posts, you were claiming that the people of Inner Mongolia were fierce nomads, unaware of the fact that they were 80% Han Chinese agriculturists.

People who contribute at such abysmal levels have no business sitting in judgement on others.

 

[RazPaK]

dude, first debunk the points he has put forward, then you can comment on his dishonesty. He is more knowledgeable than my father and your father combined...

He may be your father, but not mine. I do appreciate a lot of his posts, but he no god and is biased even if it comes off as subtle. To say a human is not biased, is completely irresponsible.