How Kashmir was stolen from Pakistan by Mountbatten

[jbond197]

Lol my grandmother was not qadiani but that was her city of birth.

ah, here comes the Punjabi blood now..

anyways, I am not saying there were no Muslims in Gurdaspur but the claims that they were majority only stands if Qadianis are counted as Muslims.. You guys don't consider them Muslims.. Isn't it??

 

[Joe Shearer]

He very much is, as my father's side as well. I can understand koshur and speak a little as well. My grandfather's sisters and my aunts still speak it between each other.

I did not deny your heritage. Please remember that I have some standards, whether or not others do.

I doubted your ability to comprehend the situation. That does not come with the genes.

 

[RazPaK]

ah, here comes the Punjabi blood now..

anyways, I am not saying there were no Muslims in Gurdaspur but the claims that they were majority only stands if Qadianis are counted as Muslims.. You guys don't consider them Muslims.. Isn't it??

No need to deviate off topic. I have said my father's side is Kashmiri which is true. I can post a pic and you would end up looking foolish. I never identified myself as Kashmiri. I was born in Punjab and speak punjabi from my mothers side. They came from Jalandhar. Thanks.

 

[EjazR]

Here is a census record on the different populations in Punjab before and after partition. Ofcourse there could be slight discperancy but givesn an idea of the dislocation of people from both sides

http://paa2004.princeton.edu/download.asp?submissionId=41274


http://www.global.ucsb.edu/punjab/journal_11_1/6_krishan.pdf

 

[RazPaK]

I did not deny your heritage. Please remember that I have some standards, whether or not others do.

I doubted your ability to comprehend the situation. That does not come with the genes.

I don't believe it was my fault for mistaking which point you were addressing due to your limited answer previously.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Mountbatten's views

A monumental interview of Mountbatten, by Larry Collins and Dominique Lapierre, from Mountbatten and the Partition of India, Volume 1.

Let me give the link - https://sites.google.com/site/cabin...en-and-jinnah-negotiations-on-pakistan-april-

Thanks for posting.

This piece more or less sums up the bitter feelings between Jinnah and Mountbatten

You have to understand that Jinnah was getting his strength from the British deep state, as represented by Churchill. Jinnah was in close contact with Churchill throughout. The book by Narila (Book Review: The Shadow of the Great Game) completes the picture.

Also the book Churchill's Secret War, By Madhusree Mukerjee , about the engineered genocides by famine, gives us an insight into Churchill's mindset.

 

[third eye]

I would like to open this thread to discuss the circumstances how one single incident took Kashmir away from Pakistan because of Mountbatten's Manipulation. As Punjab was being divided up by the Radcliffe Commission, Gurdaspur District which was Muslim Majority District was awarded to Pakistan by Radcliffe commission, initially. Mountbatten kept the Radcliffe partition plan of Punjab secret till two days after Partition ( August 17th, 1947) and changed the status of Gurdaspur District as an area which was awarded to Pakistan to instead being awarded to India. This had a huge implication as two out of the three roads leading to Kashmir went through Gurdaspur district. These two roads were the shortest route to Kashmir. The third road went through leh and was the longest way to Kashmir.

Had Gurdaspur District been rightfully awarded to Pakistan being a Muslim majority district ( as decided by Radcliffe ), India could never have taken over Kashmir. I want Pakistanis to be aware of this historical manipulation that ended in a loss of Kashmir to Pakistan and we owe it all to the dastardly act of Lord Mountbatten.

Lord Mountbatten had requested both Jinnah and Nehru to let him remain the Governor-General of both India and Pakistan after the Partition. Nehru agreed to Mountbatten's request but Mr. Jinnah declined. Mountbatten never forgot that insult and paid back Pakistan by being biased in the partition matters.

Please research and give your opinions, respectfully.

I do not have the patience to go thru all the posts hence am commenting on the 1st one.

The premise of the argument presented is that since Gurdaspur did no go to Pak, it lost J&K.

Physical connevtivity back then did not matter for if did, East Pakistan would not have gone to Pak or existed. If EP could survive thousands of miles away why not J&K ? The answer is that it was not meant to be.

Why blame Mountbatten or any one else ?

If J&K was to come to Pak it could have done so without a land connection like EP hung on till 71 ?

In any case we need to MOVE ON and not exhume the dead, carry out a post mortem & bury again till the next exhumation.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I would like to open this thread to discuss the circumstances how one single incident took Kashmir away from Pakistan because of Mountbatten's Manipulation. As Punjab was being divided up by the Radcliffe Commission, Gurdaspur District which was Muslim Majority District was awarded to Pakistan by Radcliffe commission, initially. Mountbatten kept the Radcliffe partition plan of Punjab secret till two days after Partition ( August 17th, 1947) and changed the status of Gurdaspur District as an area which was awarded to Pakistan to instead being awarded to India. This had a huge implication as two out of the three roads leading to Kashmir went through Gurdaspur district. These two roads were the shortest route to Kashmir. The third road went through leh and was the longest way to Kashmir.

Had Gurdaspur District been rightfully awarded to Pakistan being a Muslim majority district ( as decided by Radcliffe ), India could never have taken over Kashmir. I want Pakistanis to be aware of this historical manipulation that ended in a loss of Kashmir to Pakistan and we owe it all to the dastardly act of Lord Mountbatten.

Lord Mountbatten had requested both Jinnah and Nehru to let him remain the Governor-General of both India and Pakistan after the Partition. Nehru agreed to Mountbatten's request but Mr. Jinnah declined. Mountbatten never forgot that insult and paid back Pakistan by being biased in the partition matters.

Please research and give your opinions, respectfully.

1- Why jinnah and muslim league agreed on partition without first defining each and every inch of future border? Itni jaldi kia ti?
2- why jinnah and muslim league agreed with formula that rulers of princely state would decide to choose to join either india and pakistan?. Why muslim league did'nt raise the kashmir as special case before 1947?
3- why jinnah was so eager to become governer general?. Lord mount baiton remained governer general in india, nothing went wrong there. Jinnah sahab ko akhir kia parhi ti ke lord sahab se khamakha dushmani mol le... Chief of army of pakistan was angraiz, so why not governer general. Later we see that jinnah declare himself GG, without being member of assembly, and start using prime minister's powers for himself.
4- there was another state "nabha", small state with 64% muslim population, adjacent to pakistan border whose ruler was hindu and joined his state to india. Pakistan did'nt raised the case of nabha. Par kashmir par jangay karta raha, kyun ka zameen ka tukrra bohat barha ta.

 

[Joe Shearer]

For those Indians who are not jingoistic I appologise if I offend you.

For those of you Indians that are jingoistic. Those that insist all of Kashmir is written in blood as part of India and that in 60 years plus we are this and that and we should not China and this and that let me tell you this:

India has been claiming all of Kashmir for over 60 years. We Pakistan have and control about a third. You are a country that is six times the size of Pakistan in population a super power in the making as some of you like to tell us. Why do you not take what you claim is yours??

Because we are a status quo power. We do not invite trouble, we do not wage war on our neighbours. What happened in 1962 was an aberration; our political leadership believed that dealing with the Chinese was all about an extremely intellectual game of GO; they did not realize that China was prepared to go to war to enforce its boundary claims. If you look at all the armed conflict that India has been involved in other than that, you will see what I mean. The previous two incidents prior to 1962 were called police actions; nobody really wanted to be associated with anything that smacked of military belligerency.

Look at what being a pacifist power gets you. Sneers, crude, tasteless remarks about our being ruled by banias, and a whole chorus line of Pakistani (and other) fanboys doing high kicks about our not being warlike.

You know something funny?

We aren't warlike. You are. We don't plot the downfall of our neighbours; you do. We don't have funny people coming on TV explaining why a holy war against the neighbour is inevitable; you do. Our religious fanatics are people who shame and embarrass large sections of our society, sections that are committed to secularism; not for you.

That's why we didn't move in and take over the rest of Kashmir, when there were times we could have. But like those two great pacifiers, Inder Gujral and Manmohan Singh, even our most war-like Prime Minister took a chance, hoped against hope, that a magnanimous approach would bring peace.

We still try, even though we know the other side is high on macho jingoism. Just don't think we don't know.

We know, but we still want peace.

Funny lot of buggers, aren't we?

 

[EjazR]

@jbond197

The term Qadiani comes from the fact that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed the founder of the Ahmediyah movement was born in Qadian. Not that it consisted of his followers. His movement didn't take off until the 1900s and the vast majority of his converts were mainly the elites in Punjab, Delhi and UP and the Muslims based in London and the US.

Qadianis were involved in the Pakistan movement from the very begnning. For example, the Lahore resolution of 1940 was drafted by Sir Zafurllah Khan. They had promimnent presnce in various Muslim League comittes and British India administrative machinery. Basically pretty much supported the Pakistan movement in all respects from the very begnning even when there was no support for it by others.

Its another story that soon after Pakistan was formed, a vicious campaign was launched against them in Pakistan and have been completely marginalised today.

 

[RazPaK]

@jbond197

The term Qadiani comes from the fact that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed the founder of the Ahmediyah movement was born in Qadian. Not that it consisted of his followers. His movement didn't take off until the 1900s and the vast majority of his converts were mainly the elites in Punjab, Delhi and UP and the Muslims based in London and the US.

Qadianis were involved in the Pakistan movement from the very begnning. For example, the Lahore resolution of 1940 was drafted by Sir Zafurllah Khan. They had promimnent presnce in various Muslim League comittes and British India administrative machinery. Basically pretty much supported the Pakistan movement in all respects from the very begnning even when there was no support for it by others.

Its another story that soon after Pakistan was formed, a vicious campaign was launched against them in Pakistan and have been completely marginalised today.

This is where I disagree with joe shearer about his urban legend argument. My grandfather had a more truthful account of partition in Punjab. Likewise shearer must have a more exentisive knowledge about Bengal partition.

@jbond197

The term Qadiani comes from the fact that Mirza Ghulam Ahmed the founder of the Ahmediyah movement was born in Qadian. Not that it consisted of his followers. His movement didn't take off until the 1900s and the vast majority of his converts were mainly the elites in Punjab, Delhi and UP and the Muslims based in London and the US.

Qadianis were involved in the Pakistan movement from the very begnning. For example, the Lahore resolution of 1940 was drafted by Sir Zafurllah Khan. They had promimnent presnce in various Muslim League comittes and British India administrative machinery. Basically pretty much supported the Pakistan movement in all respects from the very begnning even when there was no support for it by others.

Its another story that soon after Pakistan was formed, a vicious campaign was launched against them in Pakistan and have been completely marginalised today.

This is where I disagree with joe shearer about his urban legend argument. My grandfather had a more truthful account of partition in Punjab. Likewise shearer must have a more exentisive knowledge about Bengal partition.

 

[kumarkumar1867]

Yea right, as I said 99.99 dare I say 99.99999999 of you will not even know what hit you. But then the ones whoa are going to do the deal will use the press that they own in India to brainwash the masses

No answer to this wet dreams & dellusions, All I can do at best is to have PITY on You & Your thinkings. With same delusions PA started bombing Indian Airbases in 1971, do you need me to tell you what followed after that??

I was going to answer the second part of your post mate but why waste bandwidth. Sorry to have to say your intellect and education prevent meaningful discussion

Dont be sorry, we never expect meaningful discussion with peoples who are unaware of Past, Present & who bring up stupid future theories.It was you who brought Your Master-Maseeha China's Future role from no where in thread related to Kashmir's history and I responded accordingly.

For those Indians who are not jingoistic I appologise if I offend you.

For those of you Indians that are jingoistic. Those that insist all of Kashmir is written in blood as part of India and that in 60 years plus we are this and that and we should not China and this and that let me tell you this:

India has been claiming all of Kashmir for over 60 years. We Pakistan have and control about a third. You are a country that is six times the size of Pakistan in population a super power in the making as some of you like to tell us. Why do you not take what you claim is yours??

Well its fault Indian political leaders of past. They wanted peaceful solution to issue.

 

[karan.1970]

Yea right, as I said 99.99 dare I say 99.99999999 of you will not even know what hit you. But then the ones whoa are going to do the deal will use the press that they own in India to brainwash the masses

Yup.. Your commando expected the same in Kargil.. And your leaders before that in 1971 and 1965 (when you tried to liberate Kashmir..

Look at Pakistan now and what it was set up as. Your Quaid e azam must be turning in his grave thinking what he set out to make Pakistan as and what it has ended up being.... Keep up with the false jingoism, and you will be left with even lesser than what you have now...

 

[kumarkumar1867]

amazing find bro...... but very few will care to read it..... ppl are too blind to figure out that millions of muslims/sikhs/hindus burned in flames of a single mans fiery personal ambition

It needs courage to read & understand truth...... Its most credible source as its interview of person who designed the partition process.I posted this link on very second post of this thread, but no pakistani dared to read & speak about it.

Yup.. Your commando expected the same in Kargil.. And your leaders before that in 1971 and 1965 (when you tried to liberate Kashmir..

Look at Pakistan now and what it was set up as. Your Quaid e azam must be turning in his grave thinking what he set out to make Pakistan as and what it has ended up being.... Keep up with the false jingoism, and you will be left with even lesser than what you have now...

No one cares about Qaid-E-Azam and his ideology in present day Pakistan.They have even destroyed his speech recordings about his vision of creating pakistan. Jinnah entered in politics with aspiration of becoming MUSLIM GOKHALE, but I am sure 95% of pakistani dont know who Gokhale was !! All the dire condition they are facing is just because they have completely abondened Jinnah's concept of Pakistan. Zia's regime, MullahGiri & Monkey trap syndrome costed their country the harm which no foreign country or wars would have given them in decades.

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is where I disagree with joe shearer about his urban legend argument. My grandfather had a more truthful account of partition in Punjab. Likewise shearer must have a more exentisive knowledge about Bengal partition.

Neither do I depend on good chits for determining what I should conclude from the evidence, nor do I need people to inform me where my expertise lies - or does not lie.

I have thorough knowledge of the political history of the Indian Independence movement. I have thorough knowledge of the military history of south Asia from ancient times, the beginning of Indian history, till today. I have good knowledge of European military and naval history. I have extended knowledge of general military and naval history. I have a superficial knowledge of east Asian military and naval history.

I have never claimed expertise in the minute details of the events during partition, either in the west or in the east.

None of what I claim to know is due to access to personal reminiscence or family folklore.