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How India moved on from Ayodhya

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Abingdonboy

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Hindu extremism has failed to take hold in India, says writer and historian Patrick French, 20 years after the deadly riots that followed the demolition of the Babri mosque.

When young men with saffron flags stood on the broken dome of the Babri Masjid in Ayodhya in 1992, looking exceptionally pleased with themselves, it appeared that Indian politics had changed.


It was not difficult to find eminent intellectuals who believed hard-line Hindutva (political Hinduism) represented the future. The sheer number of Hindus in India suggested that, if they chose to, radical elements could create a different kind of nation to the diverse, polyphonic one envisaged at independence.

"I love my country and I am proud of its rich and varied heritage," goes the National Pledge, recited daily by schoolchildren. But writing a few months after the events in Ayodhya, the historian Sarvepalli Gopal feared "secularism would be strangled and India would be heading for a fascist take-over… The siege to the basic concepts on which free India has striven to build herself has become more intense."

In the year following the demolition, there were reasons for fear.

Across the nation several thousand people, most of them Muslim, were killed in riots; a series of bombs exploded in Bombay (now Mumbai), orchestrated by a Dubai-based crime and terror mafia; and minorities (including Hindus in far-away Karachi) became the target of persecution.


In the view of author VS Naipaul, the passion of the men who had smashed the mosque was a sign of "India striving to regain her soul… in years to come it will be seen as a great moment, and it will probably become a public holiday." In fact, the gist of Indian electoral politics veered away from such destructive action as the years passed.

Back in 1992, two political impulses appeared to be on the rise: self-assertion by disadvantaged castes and the use of Hindu identity as a mass rallying cry for voters.

While the first has revolutionised democratic politics, and is still mutating today, Hindutva has faded away as a significant electoral force. There will always be vociferous people who believe that Hindus are a voiceless majority facing insidious persecution from "pseudo-secularists" - but their influence is declining.


Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) politicians who are strongly associated with Hindutva, such as Lal Krishna Advani and Narendra Modi, now spend much of their time trying not to look like extremists.

Mr Advani ostentatiously praised Mohammed Ali Jinnah's "forceful espousal of a secular state" while on a visit to Pakistan in 2005, while Mr Modi is trying to build links to Gujarati Muslim leaders with a view to detoxifying his reputation. The proportion of Muslim policemen in comparison to the general population is higher today in Gujarat than in any other state in India.


At the ballot box, Hindutva consistently plays badly.

During the assembly elections in Uttar Pradesh (UP) earlier this year, the BJP's efforts to use a divisive figure like Uma Bharti to promote its cause turned out to be a disaster: rather than offering a vision of the future, she seemed to represent a discredited past.

Even the constituency of Ayodhya itself was lost by the BJP to the regional Samajwadi Party, and only three out of every 20 voters across UP plumped for the BJP. The victor in Ayodhya, a student leader named Pawan Pandey, explained his success: "The common man does not believe in false temple politics. Everybody wants development and good governance."

The Ram Janmabhoomi movement has lost its appeal for younger voters. It was in retrospect an oddity, a popular historical phenomenon created in part by the mass excitement caused by the television adaptation of the Hindu epic Ramayana in the late 1980s.

Hindu extremism was always a contradiction in terms. Dharma comes in innumerable different forms and traditions, and you have to struggle hard to find Hindu texts or training which demand a fundamentalist version of faith. The alternative was to borrow militant strategies from stricter religions like Islam or Christianity.

The mathematics of India's fractionalised electoral map means that issues of caste, region, language, profession and social representation usually take precedence over religion.

More significantly, India has become richer since 1992.

Increasingly, voters do not see political parties as the potential answer to their problems. Where possible, they will avoid the state and choose a workaround. Economists will tell you that when individuals have "skin in the game", they are less likely to riot. Communal violence at times of social stress will continue, but it is much less common.


Contrary to the fears expressed in 1992, the people of India show little sign of wanting either a religious state or a fascist take-over.


Ironically, the greatest threat to the archaeological history of Islam can be found not in Hindu-majority India but in Saudi Arabia.

During the last 20 years, the Ottoman era sites of Mecca and Medina have been destroyed. The house of the Prophet's first wife Khadijah in Mecca has been turned into a public toilet block; the mosque of the Prophet's grandson was blown up; five historic mosques outside Medina have been razed; countless tombs and shrines have been bulldozed by the Saudi authorities, following their austere interpretation of Islam which discourages any risk of "idol worship".

Twenty years after the shock of the Babri Masjid's demolition, Hindu-Muslim relations in India have not been transformed in either a positive or a negative direction.

Muslims continue to face discrimination and under-representation, especially in professions where they have traditionally been absent, such as banking and the higher echelons of the civil service.

But the common social bonds and mutual dependence between communities - upon which India is built - remain intact
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BBC News - Viewpoint: How India moved on from Ayodhya
 
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Muslims are still 20% of Indian population. I am a Sikh representing only 2% of India. I can say I am proud of my nation. I would give up my life for it any day any time. No Pakistani or foreigner will understand what this nation is. People will always point at the worst parts of our history but we look at the best ones and keep working to make sure future is even better.

Just to let everyone know that India was the only country in the world in 1950 which had passed a law that," every one in this nation is equal and no discrimination of any sort will be accepted." Even America at that time had racism and blacks were not allowed to sit on the front seats in the bus until 1970s. Blacks are over 10% of American population but it took them 200 yrs to find a black President. While Sikhs are only 1.7%, still we have a Sikh PM elected twice and a Muslim President.

We are by far the Greatest Democracy on the Planet. Now suck that up haters.
 
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I can say I am proud of my nation. I would give up my life for it any day any time.No Pakistani or foreigner will understand what this nation is
You would give your life for India while living in Canada :D

Just a question if you don't mind answering. If you were so proud of India then why you left it in the first place ?

for better opportunities ? :)
 
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You guys are still discussing it so its time to move on :P

to be vigilant against groups who do not uphold basic rights is a mark of maturing democracy. We discuss, argue, and educate at the same time. It is not like you do it once and forget. It is an ongoing process.
 
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par mosque wohin banegi.Babari masjid has to be rebuild at the same land by taxing hindu temples for the money as it rebuilding cost
 
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. We discuss, argue, and educate at the same time. It is not like you do it once and forget. It is an ongoing process.
You move forward after doing all these things :)

par mosque wohin banegi.Babari masjid has to be rebuild at the same land by taxing hindu temples for the money as it rebuilding cost

jiss din india ne yea kia tu maan jahoon ga karen k hollow claims ko aur mahan bharat ko :D lakin i dont think this will ever happen in India where majority are hindus :)
 
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jiss din india ne yea kia tu maan jahoon ga karen k hollow claims ko aur mahan bharat ko :D lakin i dont think this will ever happen in India where majority are hindus :)
Then vote for me in pakistan get in order to get the mosque constructed in Ayodhya at same place....my manifesto promise......:P
 
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Bull Crap! Indians want to think and like to pretend that india has moved on from Ahmedabad, Gujrat, Ayudhoya, Gujrat again, ahmedabad agains, golden temple, Punjab again, gujrat again, Ayudhia again, erala, tamilnado, nexal..........

how many places have you guysmoved on from? To be honest it looks more like you guys move on when there is no one left to kill, and then you move on to a new killing groud, and another one, and another one, and then you return back to kill the innocents again.

You guys aremoving in circles, that is not what "moving on" means........if you know what i mean

btw has indian government re-built the Babri Mosque on the samespot? Have the indians agreed to building the Babri Mosque on it;soriginal place? if no then NO indians have no tmoved on....................
 
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Bull Crap! Indians want to think and like to pretend that india has moved on from Ahmedabad, Gujrat, Ayudhoya, Gujrat again, ahmedabad agains, golden temple, Punjab again, gujrat again, Ayudhia again, erala, tamilnado, nexal..........

how many places have you guysmoved on from? To be honest it looks more like you guys move on when there is no one left to kill, and then you move on to a new killing groud, and another one, and another one, and then you return back to kill the innocents again.

You guys aremoving in circles, that is not what "moving on" means........if you know what i mean

I think you are takling about Pakistanis, where Hindus and Sikhs have all been killed off completely via genocide... You guys barely even have any Hindus/Sikhs or non-Muslims left.

You move forward after doing all these things :)



jiss din india ne yea kia tu maan jahoon ga karen k hollow claims ko aur mahan bharat ko :D lakin i dont think this will ever happen in India where majority are hindus :)

Ayodhya is a holy Hindu site. A mosque being built there in the future is as likely as a Hindu temple being built in Mecca.
 
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No Pakistani or foreigner will understand what this nation is.
Well said, now do us all a favor and reflect upon your post before talking about other countries or my country because you will never understand what my country is.
 
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Well said, now do us all a favor and reflect upon your post before talking about other countries or my country because you will never understand what my country is.

Bro I am one of the supporter of Pakistan on this forum. Been to Pakistan with my grand parents I can say Pakistanis are just like us. They want a prosperous nation and a successfull life. Problems remain but people are strong and determined to fight back. Just like India people will only see the bad part of Pak. I like to see a positive Pakistan. But I hate it when people call India an anti secular nation.

Tell me Will Pakistan ever let a Hindu be a President??? How can we allow a muslim lead a missile program and then be the most loved president. Will this ever happen in Pakistan???? Thats the kind of Pakistan I want to see where idiots are in jails and sane people rule the country.
 
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Muslims are still 20% of Indian population. I am a Sikh representing only 2% of India. I can say I am proud of my nation. I would give up my life for it any day any time. No Pakistani or foreigner will understand what this nation is. People will always point at the worst parts of our history but we look at the best ones and keep working to make sure future is even better.

Just to let everyone know that India was the only country in the world in 1950 which had passed a law that," every one in this nation is equal and no discrimination of any sort will be accepted." Even America at that time had racism and blacks were not allowed to sit on the front seats in the bus until 1970s. Blacks are over 10% of American population but it took them 200 yrs to find a black President. While Sikhs are only 1.7%, still we have a Sikh PM elected twice and a Muslim President.

We are by far the Greatest Democracy on the Planet. Now suck that up haters.





You can believe any BS you want but the facts belie your optimism. Having a TOKEN MUSLIM PRESIDENT does not mean Indian Muslims are getting fair treatment in India. The fact is that Muslims get the short end of the stick when it comes to bread and butter ECONOMIC ISSUES. Muslims are more than 20 % of India and yet they get less than 5% of federal Govt. jobs.

Read SACHAR COMMISSION REPORT to get the facts and stop spreading BS lies about the true face of Life of a Muslim in India:






Sachar Committee Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





The major points covered in the reports are:

In the field of literacy the Committee has found that the rate among Muslims is very much below than the national average. The gap between Muslims and the general average is greater in urban areas and women. 25 per cent of children of Muslim parents in the 6-14 year age group have either never attended school or have dropped out.

Muslim parents are not averse to mainstream education or to send their children to affordable Government schools. The access to government schools for children of Muslim parents is limited.

Bidi workers, tailors and mechanics need to be provided with social safety nets and social security. The participation of Muslims in the professional and managerial cadre is low.

The average amount of bank loan disbursed to the Muslims is 2/3 of the amount disbursed to other minorities. In some cases it is half. The Reserve Bank of India’s efforts to extend banking and credit facilities under the Prime Minister’s 15-point programme of 1983 has mainly benefited other minorities marginalizing Muslims.

There is a clear and significant inverse association between the proportion of the Muslim population and the availability of educational infrastructure in small villages. Muslim concentration villages are not well served with pucca approach roads and local bus stops.

Substantially larger proportion of the Muslim households in urban areas are in the less than Rs.500 expenditure bracket.

The presence of Muslims has been found to be only 3% in the IAS, 1.8% in the IFS and 4% in the IPS.

Muslim community has a representation of only 4.5% in Indian Railways while 98.7% of them are positioned at lower levels. Representation of Muslims is very low in the Universities and in Banks. Their share in police constables is only 6%, in health 4.4%, in transport 6.5%.

For the Maulana Azad Education Foundation to be effective the corpus fund needs to be increased to 1000 crores. Total allocation in the four years 2002 to 2006 for Madarsa Modernization Scheme is 106 crores. The information regarding the Scheme has not adequately percolated down. Even if the share of Muslims in elected bodies is low they and other under represented segments can be involved in the decision making process through innovative mechanisms.

Most of the variables indicate that Muslim-OBCs are significantly deprived in comparison to Hindu-OBCs. The work participation rate (WPR) shows the presence of a sharp difference between Hindu-OBCs (67%) and the Muslims. The share of Muslim-OBCs in government/ PSU jobs is much lower than Hindu-OBCs.

There are about 5 lakh registered Wakfs with 600,000 acres (2,400 km²) land and Rs 6,000 crore book value.
 
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You would give your life for India while living in Canada :D

Just a question if you don't mind answering. If you were so proud of India then why you left it in the first place ?

for better opportunities ? :)

No for better education and yes I accept India doesn't have Canadian standard education. Lol what makes you think Canada has better opportunities if there are any. :cheesy:. I am studying ECE and majoring in power and turbines. In canada they have no new power plants under cons while back in India they have close to 80000MW under cons while more 100000 more to go soon. Sorry to say India is the land of opportunities not Canada.

You can believe any BS you want but the facts belie your optimism. Having a TOKEN MUSLIM PRESIDENT does not mean Indian Muslims are getting fair treatment in India. The fact is that Muslims get the short end of the stick when it comes to bread and butter ECONOMIC ISSUES. Muslims are more than 20 % of India and yet they get less than 5% of federal Govt. jobs.

Read SACHAR COMMISSION REPORT to get the facts and stop spreading BS lies about the true face of Life of a Muslim in India:


Sachar Committee Report - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes because 95% of them go to Bollywood. :cheest:
 
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