How effective is baktar shikan against india's tank?

[S-2]

"But shoulder mounted one has enough time to escape from seen. By the time tank crew analyze the direction of incoming ,attacking party has enough time to escape. You have brilliant living example of role of AT in Hizbo-Israel conflict."

POG (Party Of God) ATGM gunners had a mixed-bag of success. If infantry were working with armor, the liklihood that an ATGM's signature would be spotted on firing went way up.

Here are two U.S. Army Combat Studies Institute papers written by U.S. Army officers about the Israeli operational military experience in Lebanon and Gaza. I think they make worthy reading-

Back To Basics: A Study Of The Second Lebanese War And Operation CAST LEAD-LTC Scott C. Farquhar, General Editor May 2009

and

We Were Caught Unprepared: The 2006 Hezbollah-Israel War-CSI 2007 Matt Matthews

Both are research documents available for purchase and NOT student papers. These links are free reading courtesy of the U.S. government.

Now who says we never give you guys anything?

"So, that's one of reason tanks or armored cars are only confined to urban warfare. "

This is an unusual comment that is neither commonly perceived nor accurate. Armor operates far better where there's open space to permit both manuever and long-range direct-fire engagements with their primary killer, the tank cannon. While there were certainly some close range engagements at Medina Ridge and 73 Easting, much of the killing occurred at range or via thermal night sights.

Most argue that the confined spaces of an urban battlefield dramatically increase the effectiveness of infantry with portable ATGM. In point of fact, the 2006 war shows an Israeli armor force vulnerable to the channelizing effects of rough terrain and built-up areas. Both conspired to create vulnerable targets in the same manner that urban terrain affects armor.

JMHO.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Only the war would be the best test ground for Bakter Shikan and Nag.

I think there is no harm if pakistan and india sell these weapons to some other countries who are fighting wars, that would be the best opportunity to know their effectiveness.

From what I can gather both of them are different missiles in priciple.
Bkatar shikan seems to follow a straight line trajectory, where as NAG follows the same design philosophy as Javeline,
that is, climb up high, and then attack the tank from the top.

REASON : that is the place with lease Armour and most damage !

As far as Armour piercing technology is concerned , it is the same as that used in an RPG (Shape charge) , only optimized for tank killing missiles.

Navigation and Guidance are the most important features of a missile.

 

[Hellfire]

well there must be counter measurements against it.Baktar shikan isnt a fire-and-forget missile.Its is wire guided.So if the tank operators are clever they will have electronic counter measurements for it and fire at the place from fired to disrupt the laser.

yes and in fact any future tank operations will be "air cavalry" type with support from air assets to advancing tanks in terms of light helos in ATGM role (IAF has dedicated ATGM air squadron composed of modified Chetak, Cheetah and ALH in addition to dual use of Mi-17s and the dedicated attack helos Mi-35) so a wire guided may just have some problem
but on the other hand, due to the topographical layout .... the casualties on the attacking force (tanks) will definitely be way higher

 

[ironman]

Hi guys look at the recently joined family member..

defence.professionals | defpro.com

Spike NLOS ATGM with whopping 25Km range.

 

[sab]

Only the war would be the best test ground for Bakter Shikan and Nag.

I think there is no harm if pakistan and india sell these weapons to some other countries who are fighting wars, that would be the best opportunity to know their effectiveness.

Earlier version of Nag was sold to Tanzania, Morocco and Botswana. Baktar Shikan (I am not sure whether sold by Pakistan or China as HJ 8) is operational with Bangladesh, Albania.Orders were given from many Latin American countries like Peru, Ecuador,Uruguay and countries like UAE,Sudan etc. But they are not in war so no inputs from there about the effectiveness of these two missiles. But it is said Bakhtar Shikan did well in Bosnia war against Serbian Tanks.

 

[Hellfire]

In case of Indian armour column advancement, we would just drop a tactical nuke.

and risk a comprehensive retaliation? no, your polity/military leadership is not so short sighted.

 

[navtrek]

 

[ice_man]

"But shoulder mounted one has enough time to escape from seen. By the time tank crew analyze the direction of incoming ,attacking party has enough time to escape. You have brilliant living example of role of AT in Hizbo-Israel conflict."

POG (Party Of God) ATGM gunners had a mixed-bag of success. If infantry were working with armor, the liklihood that an ATGM's signature would be spotted on firing went way up.

Here are two U.S. Army Combat Studies Institute papers written by U.S. Army officers about the Israeli operational military experience in Lebanon and Gaza. I think they make worthy reading-

Back To Basics: A Study Of The Second Lebanese War And Operation CAST LEAD-LTC Scott C. Farquhar, General Editor May 2009

and

We Were Caught Unprepared: The 2006 Hezbollah-Israel War-CSI 2007 Matt Matthews

Both are research documents available for purchase and NOT student papers. These links are free reading courtesy of the U.S. government.

Now who says we never give you guys anything?

"So, that's one of reason tanks or armored cars are only confined to urban warfare. "

This is an unusual comment that is neither commonly perceived nor accurate. Armor operates far better where there's open space to permit both manuever and long-range direct-fire engagements with their primary killer, the tank cannon. While there were certainly some close range engagements at Medina Ridge and 73 Easting, much of the killing occurred at range or via thermal night sights.

Most argue that the confined spaces of an urban battlefield dramatically increase the effectiveness of infantry with portable ATGM. In point of fact, the 2006 war shows an Israeli armor force vulnerable to the channelizing effects of rough terrain and built-up areas. Both conspired to create vulnerable targets in the same manner that urban terrain affects armor.

JMHO.

S-2 s usual great post! & as usual the usual di*k measuring boys liked to ignore it & keep ranting.... but your link doesn't seem to be working!

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Earlier version of Nag was sold to Tanzania, Morocco and Botswana. Baktar Shikan (I am not sure whether sold by Pakistan or China as HJ 8) is operational with Bangladesh, Albania.Orders were given from many Latin American countries like Peru, Ecuador,Uruguay and countries like UAE,Sudan etc. But they are not in war so no inputs from there about the effectiveness of these two missiles. But it is said Bakhtar Shikan did well in Bosnia war against Serbian Tanks.

Baktar shikan is not HJ-8 its based on HJ-8 and its in service with the above u mentioned not to forget malaysia,indoenesia and others.

 

[Super Falcon]

i think we should build similar to javelian anti tank missile which have two modes one it hits the tank from side other if tank is protected by electronic suit it hits the tank from above where it has less amount of armour and demaages tanks turettoo and give the name to misssile baktar shikan 2

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

i think we should build similar to javelian anti tank missile which have two modes one it hits the tank from side other if tank is protected by electronic suit it hits the tank from above where it has less amount of armour and demaages tanks turettoo and give the name to misssile baktar shikan 2

We already have jevelin in our arsenal why make one when u already have it in ur arsenal?

 

[Super Falcon]

no sir we have TOW 1 and TOW 2 no javelian if we have provide source

 

[LCA Tejas]

Well this Nag Missile can take care of every Incoming tanks....

 

[Super Falcon]

Javelin is a portable anti-tank weapon, supplied by Raytheon / Lockheed Martin Javelin joint venture. It is shoulder-fired and can also be installed on tracked, wheeled or amphibious vehicles.

In 1989, the US Army awarded a contract for the development of Javelin as a replacement for the M47 Dragon anti-tank missile. The Javelin joint venture was formed by Texas Instruments (now Raytheon Missile Systems) of Dallas, Texas and Lockheed Martin Electronics and Missiles (now Missiles and Fire Control), of Orlando, Florida.

Raytheon is responsible for the command launch unit (CLU), missile guidance electronic unit, system software and system engineering management. Lockheed Martin is responsible for the missile seeker, missile engineering and assembly.

"Javelin is a shoulder-fired, portable
anti-tank weapon."Javelin entered full-rate production in 1994 and the systems were first deployed in June 1996 by the US Army at Fort Benning, Georgia. The Javelin system saw operational service with the US Army and Marine Corps and Australian Special Forces during Operation Iraqi Freedom in March / April 2003 and is currently deployed in Afghanistan. More than 1,000 rounds have been fired. The CLU is also being used in surveillance operations.

In January 2003, the UK Ministry of Defence announced that it had decided to procure Javelin for the light forces anti-tank guided weapon system (LFATGWS) requirement. The initial order is for 18 launchers and 144 missiles. Javelin replaced the Milan system and entered service with British Army in July 2005.

Javelin equips the army's rapid reaction forces, including 16 air assault brigade, three commando brigade and mechanised infantry. BAE Systems and a number of other UK companies are providing subsystems for the missiles. In October 2004, a further order was placed, to equip the armoured infantry and formation reconnaissance forces from 2007, replacing the Swingfire ATGW.

Over 20,000 missiles have been produced and over 3,000 command launch units. Javelin has also been selected by Taiwan (60 launchers and 360 missiles), Lithuania, Jordan (30 launchers and 110 missiles), Australia (up to 92 systems and 600 missiles), New Zealand (24 launchers, delivered in June 2006), Norway (90 launchers and 526 missiles, delivery from 2006) and Ireland. Canada has also been authorised to make such a purchase, but has not pursued the option to date.

In June 2004, the Czech Republic signed a Letter of Agreement (LOA) with the US government to provide the Javelin system. In November 2004, the United Arab Emirates requested the foreign military sale (FMS) of 100 Javelin launchers and 1,000 missile rounds. In June 2006, Oman requested the FMS of 30 launchers and 250 missiles. In July 2006, Bahrain requested the FMS of 60 launchers and 180 missiles. Contracts for the supply of the missile system to UAE and Oman were placed in July 2008. In October 2008, Taiwan requested the sale of an additional 182 missile and 20 launchers.

Production of the block 1 missile began in 2006. Successful qualification firings took place in January 2007.

"The Javelin anti-armour missile is autonomously guided to the target, leaving the gunner free to reposition or reload immediately."In December 2008, the Javelin JV was awarded a contract to upgrade 404 block 0 command launch units to block 1 configuration. The upgrade is scheduled for completion in spring, 2011.

Missile

The Javelin system consists of the CLU and the round. The CLU, with a carry weight of 6.4kg, incorporates a passive target acquisition and fire control unit with an integrated day sight and a thermal imaging sight.

The sight uses DRS Technologies second-generation thermal imaging technology, based on the standard advanced Dewar assembly (SADA IIIA). The company also provides the quieter, dual-opposed piston coolers for the sight.

The gunner's controls for the missile system are on the CLU. The day sight is equipped with x4 magnification and the night sight with x4 and x9 magnification optics.

The round consists of the Javelin missile and the ATK (Alliant Techsystems) launch tube assembly. The range of the missile is 2,500m. Javelin is a fire-and-forget missile with lock-on before launch and automatic self-guidance.

The missile is equipped with an imaging infrared seeker which is based on a cadmium mercury telluride (CdHgTe) 64 x 64 staring focal plane array in the 8 to 12 micron waveband. BAE Systems Avionics is providing the infrared seekers for the British Army's missiles.

The tandem warhead is fitted with two shaped charges: a precursor warhead to initiate explosive reactive armour and a main warhead to penetrate base armour. The propulsion system is a two-stage solid propellant design which provides a minimum smoke soft launch.

The block 1 missile upgrade includes an improved rocket motor which reduces time of flight, an enhanced warhead effective against a greater range of targets, and improvements to the command launch unit and software.

Operation

The system is deployed and ready to fire in less than 30 seconds and the reload time is less than 20 seconds. The missile is mounted on the CLU and the gunner engages the target using the sight on the CLU, by placing a curser box over the image of the target. The gunner locks on the automatic target tracker in the missile by sending a lock-on-before-launch command to the missile. When the system is locked-on, the missile is ready to fire and the gunner does not carry out post launch tracking or missile guidance.

"The Javelin system is deployed and ready to fire in less than 30 seconds and the reload time is less than 20 seconds."Unlike conventional wire guided, fibre-optic cable guided, or laser beam riding missiles, Javelin is autonomously guided to the target after launch, leaving the gunner free to reposition or reload immediately after launch.

A soft launch ejects the missile from the launch tube to give a low-recoil shoulder launch. The soft launch enables firing from inside buildings or covered positions. Once the missile is clear, the larger propellant in the second stage is ignited and the missile is propelled towards the target. The weapon has two attack modes, direct or top attack.

The gunner selects direct attack mode to engage covered targets, bunkers, buildings and helicopters.

The top attack mode is selected against tanks, in which case the Javelin climbs above and strikes down on the target to penetrate the roof of the tank where there is the least armour protection.

The missile is launched at an 18° elevation angle to reach a peak altitude of 150m in top attack mode and 50m in direct fire mode

 

[Super Falcon]

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6_JpPvWCAQ