How Do the F22P frigates compare to the Type 022 Fast Attack boats ?

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

As we are expected to get more of the two Ships from China
how do the two boats enhance out navies?

The Fast Attack boats do provide a radar evasion and they are fast , but what other advantage the frigates have that these fast attack boats do not have

I mean both have missiles, and both of air guns beside the Cannons on ships (only on frigates) How do the two ships compare.

Is having 10 Fast attack boats better of having 2 frigates ?

These stealthy boats are wonderful addition can't we just get a slightly larger version of these boats they do look very fast and effective

Are these boats invisible to fighter jets ? radars or being picked up by Submarines etc

Because when you are air , if you look down at sea you can spot boats very easily with naked eyes how do the stealthy designs enhance our navies?

Surely 8 F22P and 10 Fast attack boats in Pakistan Navy would be a great addition

How do these ships defend against lets say fighter jets ? what kinda defenses do they have on Areal threats

 

[flameboard]

we are not getting those we are getting different design with primarily the same function.

 

[MilSpec]

general query, Is F22P a light frigate... Or Pakistan navy has a policy of acquiring vessels with weight criterion ... i was looking up IN and PN navy ships and PN destroyers/ Frigates seem to be in weight/Armament class of IN Frigates/Corvetes...

 

[truthseeker2010]

First I heard that we will be buying 500 ton FAC but type 022 is half that so is confirmed that its 022.
Second the advantages of these boats are that they are exceptionally fast with a top speed of 36 knots. Very agile, stealthy and they generally attack in wolfpacks. Primarily used against Anti ship, but can be used for land attack as well, and they are CHEAP as compared F22Ps.
In terms of Firepower both have the same punch with 8 missile each.
For air defence 022 have manpads, whereas 22Ps have FM90s so 022 are venerable in this area.
In terms of cost you can get 3 022 for 1 22Ps price.(My estimate)

 

[MilSpec]

My question was regarding F22P being itself a very light Frigate... its weapon load out and weight is similar to IN Corvette kamorta class...

Type 23 Royal navy and Delhi class IN weighs 4900T and 4600T resp... PNS zulfiquar weighs around 2900T with smaller weapons load out.

 

[Penguin]

My question was regarding F22P being itself a very light Frigate... its weapon load out and weight is similar to IN Corvette kamorta class...

Type 23 Royal navy and Delhi class IN weighs 4900T and 4600T resp... PNS zulfiquar weighs around 2900T with smaller weapons load out.

Kamorta class is in fact a light frigate, without the SSMs though ... but, it has better SAMs than F22P.

I'm not sure why we're comparing these ships anyway.

F22P=watermellon
Type 022=apple
Both hurt when you get hemit in the head by them

 

[MilSpec]

Kamorta class is in fact a light frigate, without the SSMs though ... but, it has better SAMs than F22P.

I'm not sure why we're comparing these ships anyway.

F22P=watermellon
Type 022=apple
Both hurt when you get hemit in the head by them

Because I couldn't find a Frigate in indian navy to compare it too

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well interesting comments

Well the speed is a great plus to avoid the Torpedoes , the ship should out maneuver any Submarine launched torpedoes , but do are there any homing missiles that the ships can't out maneuver?

I really wonder what do they mean by Stealth Ship Design ? from what , can't fighter planes not spot the ships on radars but when I was in plane , I can see even the smallest of ships moving in ocean leaving a trail of white foam so ships are very visible from Fighter planes.

Stealth planes I understand - but stealth ships hmm is another story the color scheme of ships is interesting as the colors blend in well but still ships are visible to naked eyes.

What would be great is that if we had few missile boats for Anti Ship operations and few boats that carried surface to air wepaons

 

[monitor]

You can install 8 missile to your missile boat and surface to air missile to few boat but i think the problem is you cannot install a power rader to a 200 ton boat as compare to 2500+ ton ship . so the end result is you have to wonder in the open see to look for your surface target almost blindfolded ,where enemy with more powerful rader will detect you and attack you before you find it .
but this problem may overcome by using AWACS which will have direct data link with the fast attack craft/missile boat to deliver important target data .

 

[Whiplash]

You can install 8 missile to your missile boat and surface to air missile to few boat but i think the problem is you cannot install a power rader to a 200 ton boat as compare to 2500+ ton ship . so the end result is you have to wonder in the open see to look for your surface target almost blindfolded ,where enemy with more powerful rader will detect you and attack you before you find it .
but this problem may overcome by using AWACS which will have direct data link with the fast attack craft/missile boat to deliver important target data .

That's exactly what I was gonna post. You can't have any sort of powerful radars or sensors on missile boats. So even if the max range of your missiles is a 1000 km.. They will have to come pretty darn close to get a lock. Close enough for a frigate to drill their brains out.
IN overcomes this problem in a very elegant way according to me. High altitude Early warning Helicopters (Ie: the Ka31) scroll the area ahead of corvettes. The days are gone according to me, where you can use small fast missile boats to take on warships. It's not 1971 any more. Ask yourself why no major navies operate missile boats.

 

[Whiplash]

Well interesting comments

Well the speed is a great plus to avoid the Torpedoes , the ship should out maneuver any Submarine launched torpedoes , but do are there any homing missiles that the ships can't out maneuver?

I really wonder what do they mean by Stealth Ship Design ? from what , can't fighter planes not spot the ships on radars but when I was in plane , I can see even the smallest of ships moving in ocean leaving a trail of white foam so ships are very visible from Fighter planes.

Stealth planes I understand - but stealth ships hmm is another story the color scheme of ships is interesting as the colors blend in well but still ships are visible to naked eyes.

What would be great is that if we had few missile boats for Anti Ship operations and few boats that carried surface to air wepaons

Stealth ships are not meant for eluding the enemy. They are meant for creating an illusion. Lets consider some of the new stealth frigates like the formidable/Shivalik/La fayette or any other class.
Even though these ships are in the greater than 6000 ton category, on account of stealth features, their RCS is more in the 1200-1500 ton category ship range. These could easily be mistaken for a large shipping trawler, or a much less capable corvette/ FAC.
Further, the lower your RCS, the closer an enemy ship has to get to attack you with an active radar homing missile. This increases the probability of the ship coming into your range much before you come into theirs. Just like in stealth warplanes.
And about the ships being visible by the naked eye. That can never be avoided my friend. But have you ever seen how large the ocean is? The chances of a ship being located visually is next to nothing.

 

[Whiplash]

Kamorta class is in fact a light frigate, without the SSMs though ... but, it has better SAMs than F22P.

I'm not sure why we're comparing these ships anyway.

F22P=watermellon
Type 022=apple
Both hurt when you get hemit in the head by them

Even though the kamorta is meant to be an ASW corvette does not imply that it can't carry SSMs. On account of the versatility of the klub platform. the launcher can be fitted with anti sub or anti ship klubs.
I had brought this point up earlier too. Their 'frigate' the F22 was at most comparable to out kamorta class corvettes. Any of our newer frigates carry much more armament.

 

[MilSpec]

Well interesting comments

Well the speed is a great plus to avoid the Torpedoes , the ship should out maneuver any Submarine launched torpedoes , but do are there any homing missiles that the ships can't out maneuver?

I really wonder what do they mean by Stealth Ship Design ? from what , can't fighter planes not spot the ships on radars but when I was in plane , I can see even the smallest of ships moving in ocean leaving a trail of white foam so ships are very visible from Fighter planes.

Stealth planes I understand - but stealth ships hmm is another story the color scheme of ships is interesting as the colors blend in well but still ships are visible to naked eyes.

What would be great is that if we had few missile boats for Anti Ship operations and few boats that carried surface to air wepaons

It would be understandable if F22P were light for corvette like speed, BUT they aren't.

F22p Frigate PNS Zulfiquar weighs at 2250 Tons and has a top speed of 27 Knots

Kamorta class Corvette INS Kamorta weighs 2500tons and has top speed of 32 knots

Shivalik class Frigates weigh in at 6000 tons and have a top speed of 32 knots

Talwar class frigates weigh at 4035 tons and have a speed of 32 Knots

Even the Destroyers of Kolkatta class which would weigh in at 6800Tons would be at 30 Knots

28 knots of The Delhi Class Destroyers have a speed close to F22P's, But they weigh nearly 3 times at 6800 tons.

 

[cross1993]

022 is very good. But it has several flaws:
1# It is poor air-defense-capability, it scared the helicopter.
2# It is not very good voyage, it is not suitable for ocean-going battle.
3# Its radar is not very good, it needs to support by data link.

Yes, It is cheap & fast & stealth & firepower powerful. But it can not be a capital ship, it's just an assassin. About a hundred 022-type is active duty in China.

 

[notorious_eagle]

That's exactly what I was gonna post. You can't have any sort of powerful radars or sensors on missile boats. So even if the max range of your missiles is a 1000 km.. They will have to come pretty darn close to get a lock. Close enough for a frigate to drill their brains out.
IN overcomes this problem in a very elegant way according to me. High altitude Early warning Helicopters (Ie: the Ka31) scroll the area ahead of corvettes. The days are gone according to me, where you can use small fast missile boats to take on warships. It's not 1971 any more. Ask yourself why no major navies operate missile boats.

This is exactly where the net centric environment comes in, PAF is already fully net centric and PA/PN will be net centric soon. These missile boats dont need to come close to the frigates, coming close to them would ensure their destruction. This is why these boats can fire their ASM's from a distance and let the command center guide the missiles in. Considering what budget PN is allocated, this is the perfect way to counter the much superior IN. PN is not looking to venture out in the open seas and engage the IN because it will get annihilated. They are looking to keep the sea lanes open and inflict damage on the Indian fleet if it comes near our shores, something similar to what the PLAN hopes to do against USN.