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How Delhi lost in Afghanistan:

insomniac00

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Tuesday, May 24, 2011: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh‘s trip to Afghanistan had the tell tale signs of a farewell visit. It was a grim reminder of Comrade Najibullah’s last visit to Delhi or anywhere else. After signing a stack-ful of MoUs with grandiose plans, Najibullah found himself hanging from a pole in Kabul. Pretty soon Delhi was served with an eviction notice out of Afghanistan. The same story was repeated when the Iranian president visit Delhi. All those plans about building Chahbahra and links to Kabul via Iran are now part of a dustbin.

“There’s no question of retreating from Afghanistan,” says a senior Indian diplomat. Such bravado is for public consumption, because the Bharati diplomats themselves don’t believe it and cannot say it with conviction.

While Delhi touts the amount of money it has spent in Afghanistan–most analysts agree that the amount is exaggerated, and there is little to show for it in real terms in the Hindu Kush mountains (Hindu Killer). Bharat tried to push “soft power” in a war zone. This is like imagining the “East India Company” to run arts and crafts projects to win over the hostiles in South Asia, and China. Bharat’s claims to being a relevant player in Afghanistan relies on an exaggerated idea of what “Soft Power” can accomplish in the graveyard of empires. It didn’t work then and it doesn’t work now. Lord Curzon’s attempts at subduing the fierce tribesman of Pakistan and Afghanistan led to the horrid defeats at Maiwand. Even today the Afghan and Pakistanis name their children Ayub Khan (the Pakistan president was one such person named after the famous Ayub Khan that defeated the British), the hero of that battle which routed the British. There is an overwhelming body of evidence which describes the facts on how India is retreating from Afghanistan and scaling down its failed projects.

1) Nearly 50% of Indian personnel working on various projects in Afghanistan have been sent home.

2) The Indira Gandhi Institute of Child Health in Kabul is without an Indian doctor– medical guidance is teleconferenced in from New Delhi.

3) Bharat has yet to start on the Salma dam (which would stop water to Pakistan and Iran). The Talibs have sworn to blow it up, if it is ever built.

4) Bharat has failed to construct the Afghan Parliament – first started with an un-Islamic design, and still an edifice of rebar, mortar and steel not mature enough to be called a building.

5) Bharat’s Self-Employed Women’s Association (SEWA) scheme has been put on hold.

6) Bharati-run vocational courses have been suspended.

7) The training of Afghan civilian personnel will not be imparted in Kabul though it may happen in India now (but is hampered by costs and budgetary constraints).

Bharat is clueless about Afghanistan and sees the country through Bollywood eyes. Most Bharatis think that the Pathans (as they are called in Delhi) are like Shahrukh Khan – there to entertain the masses. The manner in which Bharat set about its “Afghan project’ was as if it would be directing a Bollywood movie. Soft power of soap operas Saas Bhi Kabhi Bahu Thi (The Mother-in-Law Was Once the Daughter-in-Law), and a hospital and a road would supposedly transform the country into an Indian state – never mind the fact that Bharat does not have a contiguous border with Afghanistan and never mind the fact that the Afghans (with or without the Taliban) are ferociously Anti-Indian and vociferously Anti-Hindu (the Pakistan factor not withstanding). Delusion is endemic in Delhi, insignificance is mistaken for reality. Clarity of short distance is seen as “vision”. Bharati pundits in South block, far removed from Kabul believe that their adored Bollywood dramas will prove decisive in winning a war in Afghanistan! It is amusing to see how many Bharati policy-makers who actually believe the crock that that is doled out about the significance of Bollywood in Kabul. The Mumbai paradigm cannot be used in Kabul.

Imagine a hospital without doctors–that is what the Indira Gandhi institute in Kabul is. Children are diagnosed on TV monitors. The amount of frustration felt by the Afghan about this “hospital” can only be gaged by its empty halls, unvisited Emergency Center and desolate rooms.

The 150 kilometer Zaranj-Dilaram road is one of the most advertised pieces of disused carriageway in the world. Bharat has not lost an opportunity to tout it. Facts intrude to inform the engineers, that the road was unusable the week it was opened. Littered with potholes, all bridges have been blown up, there has been no maintenance of it since it was built, and the irony of the situation is that the Talibs control it. It was supposedly built to offer an alternate route to Kabul–bypassing Pakistan. Today the parking lot is owned by the Anti-Indian Pakhtuns.

The Bharati attempt to build the Afghan parliament building is a case study in what not to do. Why would Bharat come up with a design of the parliament building –which would not reflect Afghanistan rich Islamic past. Tied to the dream of “secularism” Delhi tried to ram a strange design down the throat of the Afghans, who balked–even though it was free. After a national protest the design was changed, but the damage had been done. Instead of garnishing goodwill, Bharat ended up with antagonism and animosity.

Image: Afghan Parliament building: The “construction” of this potemkin village sort of building began in 2005 and in typical Bharati style, after 6 years, it is still a jumble of wire and steel. Construction has slowed down due to security concerns, and because Indians cannot operate in Kabul and the Talibs have threatened that the building will be blown up.

The end result–after seven years, the building is a long way off before it can host the Afghan jirga. According to Peter Lee “The Afghan parliament building is, as the writer says, “greatly symbolic”. Indeed, it is an almost perfect metaphor for India’s Afghanistan project – Because it’s not built”.

The Bharati attempt to interfere in the Afghan elections has boomeranged. Instead of supporting the Indian educated Karzai, the Bharatis sided with the Americans and supported Abdullah Abdullah who lost the elections. Karzai then threw in his lot with the Pakistanis who had supported him.

For the longest time the Bharatis had been opposed to a reconciliation with the Talibs. This ran contrary to Afghan sensitives who voted for a national consensus with the Talibs. This has left them out in left field. Premier Manmohan retreated and this is the best he could when faced by the Karzai quote “the Pakistan consensus in necessary”.

Analysts blame no one but India for its plight. It is a victim of its own bad policies. In what seems like proto-history now, Delhi supported the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and Delhi has also supported the American occupation. It was wrong on both counts. Afghan know that Pakistan helped them defeat the USSR, and they also know that Pakistan joined the US venture, only reluctantly and only when faced with Armitage’s threat of “being bombed to the stone age”. More than 6 million Afghans were born in Pakistan, and they travel freely across the country. Their kith and kin are in important positions in the Pakistani government and the Pakistani Army. The Afghan Pakhtun and otherwise know Pakistan like the back of their hand–many know Pakistani cities better then own villages where their forefathers lived for centuries. More than 3 million refuse to go back to Afghanistan. The Afghans have changed the demographics of Balochistan–hence the rumors about the Quetta Shurra in Quetta. Bharat has no capacity to compete with Pakistan either in religion or geography.

Analysts also say that Bharat was not assertive enough in Kabul, lacked the confidence to to deal with the events and Hindustan was overwhelmed by Iran and Pakistan – both of which had colossal constituencies in the country. Bharat could have gotten itself a solid foothold in Afghanistan, but it antagonized the two peoples who could helped it get that foothold. Delhi tried to circumvent Islamabad, and then avoid Tehran. Both saw Delhi as a rival and thus opposed every move that Delhi made.

Admittedly, Bharat’s “Incredible India” has had some limited success in hiding the plight of the toiling masses – but Bollywood’s gloss can go only so far. Visitors to Bharat are appalled by the wall of unimaginable penury that hit them right at the airport. Bharat’s sophisticated marketing prowess works on powerpoint slides, but falls flat on its face as soon as the rubber meets the road. No amount of rhetoric can turn Afghanistan as the next tourist destination for 2011 hippies.

Bharati academics missed the boat and are now once again trying to drive a wedge between the Americans and the Pakistanis in the Post-OBL era. They think that they will be able to portray Pakistan in a bad light over OBL. They forget that a large portion of the Afghan population still has positive feelings for those who support him. So the Pakistanis are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

There is a new kid on the block! Delhi fails to see the Big Dragon in the room. Maybe the pundits in Delhi miss the point that China has a touch-point border with Afghanistan and now is ready to play a role there. The Pakistanis have been urging Hamid Karzai to dump the US and instead look to Pakistan and China for a peace deal with the Taliban and rebuilding the economy. Bharat cannot offer Kabul that, and the US wont’ be there to help the Bharatis.

As Peter Lee says “Despite hopeful prognostications, it is quite likely that the emergence of a reconciled-taliban Kabul government through Pakistan’s mediation is not going to be a good thing for India”.
 
If Pakistani analysts are to be believed then Bharat has had tremendous success in Afghanistan in bringing Pakistan down to it knees..you know with 17 consulates and all(would be mighty thankful..if some body could atleast name these consulates or which cities they are in.)

Then how come Bharat has lost in Afghnaistan..considering Pakistan is still on it knees with no signs of recovery, anytime soon?

Next time please include your Rupee news source with it.

Why India lost Afghanistan | Rupee News
 
If Pakistani analysts are to be believed then Bharat has had tremendous success in Afghanistan in bringing Pakistan down to it knees..you know with 17 consulates and all(would be mighty thankful..if some body could atleast name these consulates or which cities they are in.)

Then how come Bharat has lost in Afghnaistan..considering Pakistan is still on it knees and showing no signs of recovery anytime soon?

Next time please include your Rupee news source with it.

Why India lost Afghanistan | Rupee News

ares you will the most retarded guy in the whole world, if you still believe india had any success in afghan, 'to build afghanistan and india relations', and a dumb retarded might think that instead of winning afghani heart, spreading terrorism into the neighbourhood through afghanistan is a sucessful thing

india wanted to make balochistan separate state, they armed balochis, but the ommon patriotic baloch fought back, your mission is a dimb failure, we atleast provoked khalistan much better, but you did nothing

instead of indian consulate along pak afghan border, you had made those 15 in afghanistan heart and addressed promisingly to afghans, you would have brought afghans closer, but you used afghanistan for your purpose

adios !
 
its fun reading comments of one of the most Delusional set of people to exist on contemporary earth....

lol...keep them comming....
 
ares you will the most retarded guy in the whole world, if you still believe india had any success in afghan, 'to build afghanistan and india relations', and a dumb retarded might think that instead of winning afghani heart, spreading terrorism into the neighbourhood through afghanistan is a sucessful thing

india wanted to make balochistan separate state, they armed balochis, but the ommon patriotic baloch fought back, your mission is a dimb failure, we atleast provoked khalistan much better, but you did nothing

instead of indian consulate along pak afghan border, you had made those 15 in afghanistan heart and addressed promisingly to afghans, you would have brought afghans closer, but you used afghanistan for your purpose

adios !


Ohhhh..did I step on your tail there?

Btw can you name these 15 Indian consulates in Afghanistan atleast?
 
The Times of India
India, Afghanistan to step up defence ties
Jun 2, 2011, 04.42am IST

NEW DELHI: With Afghanistan slated to handle its own security by 2014, Kabul and New Delhi on Wednesday resolved to step up their bilateral defence cooperation.

"We will welcome any cooperation (from India) in the field of training and helping of Afghan national security forces so that they are able to secure and defend the country," said visiting Afghanistan defence minister General Abdul Rahim Wardak.

Defence minister A K Antony, in turn, assured Wardak that India was "committed" to building "the capabilities" of Afghan security forces. "As a long standing friend of the Afghan people", he said, India remains fully committed to supporting the war-ravaged country in its reconstruction and developmental efforts.

On whether the enhanced defence cooperation would lead to India supplying military equipment to Afghanistan, Wardak said, "We will be discussing it. There is a very genuine interest in strengthening our relations in all sectors including defence."

With India continuing with its policy to counter Pakistan's moves in the strategically-located Afghanistan, PM Manmohan Singh had visited Kabul last month to deepen the bilateral strategic partnership across the political, economic and security fronts.

India has been regularly training Afghan officers and other ranks at its military training institutions, ranging from the NDA and Indian Military Academy at Dehradun to the School of Artillery at Deolali, ever since the Karzai government came to office.

India has also posted some Army officers in the central Asian nation to teach basic military fieldcraft and English skills to the Afghan Army, apart from sending several military doctors to help at hospitals in Kandahar and elsewhere.

Afghanistan has, in fact, sought even more Indian help in "capacity-building" of its armed forces, which even includes training of its pilots and technicians in operating Russian-origin Mi-35 helicopter gunships, as well as sourcing supplies for its Soviet-era tanks and aircraft.
 
My understanding is that IF Americans leave Afghanistan today--or even by 2014--Pakistan is likely to get the upper hand. Geography, ethnic, religious, economic ties are much stronger for Pakistan, even though a lot of Afghans blame Pakistan for their problems.
But even if Pakistan is able to achieve the status of pre 9/11 it would still be a problem. The proxy wars will continue between various regional powers and so Afghans will suffer.
I'd say leave the Afghans alone! And that applies to all regional powers. Let the Afghans be back to pre 1974 era and let them evolve on their own pace. I say pre 1974 because, in my opinion, the political left/right of Afghanistan started on a collision course sometime in mid 70s, backed by Americans and Soviets even that early. The results have been disastrous.
 
1. India has steadily and covertly built up a sizable presence in Afghanistan mainly through the Border Rd Org (BRO). BRO is really the cover for the force build-up. A parallel may be found in Bhutan where they have a three star commanding BRO/IMTRAT ( sorry, I am not sure of the second abbreviation) guarding routes into Tibet. Historically the kingdom/province of Kabul had been under Delhi's Muslim rulers. Perhaps the Americans want to hand over to a country who don't mind accepting regular casualty.

2. Many Afghan leaders and mily commanders, incl Karzai himself have lived and studied in India. Delhi hosts a good host of Afghan families. The important ones are looked after by RAW. For instance I know late Prez Najibullah's son used to study at the prestigious, and expensive, British Public School, Delhi.

3. So the American design is for the battles to continue with themselves safely away. They will sell arms, and they will pump in money later for Urban Renewal.
 
2. Many Afghan leaders and mily commanders, incl Karzai himself have lived and studied in India. Delhi hosts a good host of Afghan families. The important ones are looked after by RAW. For instance I know late Prez Najibullah's son used to study at the prestigious, and expensive, British Public School, Delhi.

So? Karzai has also lived in Pakistan and there are 50 times more afghans living in Pakistan then in india.
 
So? Karzai has also lived in Pakistan and there are 50 times more afghans living in Pakistan then in india.


India Backed Northern Alliance leaded by Ahmed Shah Mahssoud, The Lion of Panjshir , (National Hero of Afghanistan and Nobel Peace Prize Nominee)
After Pakistan had funded, directed and supported the Taliban's rise to power in Afghanistan, Massoud and the United Front received some assistance from India. India was particularly concerned about Pakistan's Taliban strategy and the Islamic militancy in its neighborhood; it provided US$70 million in aid including two Mi-17 helicopters, three additional helicopters in 2000 and US$8 million worth of high-altitude equipment in 2001.

One analyst in 2004 put it this way: "One man holds a greater political punch than all 18 living [Afghan] presidential candidates combined.

Now Indian Ties with Afghan government are all in Anti-Taliban basket, like

President Karzai:- Karzai took a postgraduate course in political science at Himachal Pradesh University in Shimla, Himachal Pradesh, India.Karzai then started to work closely with the United Front (Northern Alliance), which was led by Ahmad Shah Massoud. In 2000 and 2001, he traveled to Europe and the United States to help gather support for the anti-Taliban movement.

All the prominent leaders like
Mohammed Fahim
Abdul Rahim Wardak
Massoud Khalili
Amrullah Saleh
Abdul Rashid Dostum
Ahmad Zia Massoud

All maintain very close ties to India and allegedly kept there families in new Delhi during the War against pakistani backed taliban
 
1.I believe several of them hold US passports. Karzai owns a Afghan cuisine chain restaurant in USA. I ate in one located somewhere in between Washington DC and the Arlington Memorial.

2. We got to remember that the Pashtuns who dominate Afghanistan are natural allies of Pakistan. The Pashtuns on either side of the Hindu Kush are brothers. Nothing in history has ever caused a dent in this loyalty to each other.
 
India Backed Northern Alliance leaded by Ahmed Shah Mahssoud, The Lion of Panjshir , (National Hero of Afghanistan and Nobel Peace Prize Nominee)
After Pakistan had funded, directed and supported the Taliban's rise to power in Afghanistan, Massoud and the United Front received some assistance from India. India was particularly concerned about Pakistan's Taliban strategy and the Islamic militancy in its neighborhood; it provided US$70 million in aid including two Mi-17 helicopters, three additional helicopters in 2000 and US$8 million worth of high-altitude equipment in 2001.

One analyst in 2004 put it this way: "One man holds a greater political punch than all 18 living [Afghan] presidential candidates combined.

Now Indian Ties with Afghan government are all in Anti-Taliban basket, like

President Karzai:- Karzai took a postgraduate course in political science at Himachal Pradesh University in Shimla, Himachal Pradesh, India.Karzai then started to work closely with the United Front (Northern Alliance), which was led by Ahmad Shah Massoud. In 2000 and 2001, he traveled to Europe and the United States to help gather support for the anti-Taliban movement.

All the prominent leaders like
Mohammed Fahim
Abdul Rahim Wardak
Massoud Khalili
keep on dreaming the day America will run away from Afghanistan Taliban will go after your puppets which are few in number and the will be made most horrible sign for the world
Amrullah Saleh
Abdul Rashid Dostum
Ahmad Zia Massoud

All maintain very close ties to India and allegedly kept there families in new Delhi during the War against pakistani backed taliban
keep on living in the fools paradise because the day America will run away from Afghanistan Taliban will finish of your puppets in Afghanistan which are very few but still will be a part of history
 
1.I believe several of them hold US passports. Karzai owns a Afghan cuisine chain restaurant in USA. I ate in one located somewhere in between Washington DC and the Arlington Memorial.

2. We got to remember that the Pashtuns who dominate Afghanistan are natural allies of Pakistan. The Pashtuns on either side of the Hindu Kush are brothers. Nothing in history has ever caused a dent in this loyalty to each other.

In modern world loyalty is used for dogs, not human... its all bout reciprocity... You will reap what you have sow..
keep on living in the fools paradise because the day America will run away from Afghanistan Taliban will finish of your puppets in Afghanistan which are very few but still will be a part of history

In one of my post I clearly mentioned that USA has already achieved its objective in Afghanistan, They killed Osama, They dismantle Taliban. Now talibans are like mad dog, they emerge from some where bite and get killed by soldiers...

But why US is not leaving Afghanistan??? Reason is stability, They don't want Taliban to rise again, thats why they are there. In next 4-5 years they will force pakistan to kill the maggots (on pakistan side), they will train Afghani to clean the maggot (Afghan side), then they will say sayo-nara... :)

your Taliban control over will be dream only..
 
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