How can Afghan refugees be repatriated?

[SecularHumanist]

Well you are very wrong, am born and bred pakistani, yes i do have anti punjabi element in me, because when u ask a pushtoon to chose betwen an afghan pushtoon or a punjabi then u know what the answer is going to be,

Punjabis share indian heritage while pushtoons and balochs share afghan/iranian heritage so links are always going to be stronger in that sense.

As far as tajiks are concerned well i have no probs with them, they helped conquer india with ghaznavi and ghuri, so they did alot more then u can offer which is their life.

i dont want this thread to turn nasty so am gonna leave u to ur lil punjabi world.

From what you have been saying in this thread, it seems your ethnicity comes before your nationality for you. So basically you are pashtun first and then Pakistani.

You are against fencing the border because you have families across the border and because that is also your country? What the heck does that mean? What are you Afghan, Pakistani, or both? Those families can come in and out the way it is done in most countries. They should be required to have the right papers and passport. I think what you are trying to say is that you do not recognize the Durand line.

 

[dabong1]

Once you throw all the afghans out who will people blame for there ills then?

 

[Shapur]

Hello everyone

As an Afghan, I am very grateful to the poeple of Pakistan especially from pakhtunkhwa for being our hosts for such a long time. The Afghan people are forever indebted to the people of Pakhtunkhwa.

As you guys know Afghanistan is under occupation of foreign forces and country is not stable. The security situation is very bad and it would be cruel to send the refugees back at the moment. I think Pakistan has every right to control its border and decide who stays in and who goes out. As a gesture of friendship, Pakistan must let the Afghan refugees stay in Pakistan as long as there is instability in Afghanistan.

Pakistan and Afghanistan must work together to eliminate the threat of extremism. ISI should not support instability in Afghanistan and support certain groups in Afghanistan for their own advantage. Many Afghans hate Pakistani government for their involvement in Afghanistan's internal affairs. Afghan people don't hate pakistani people bur rather the Pakistani government. We have nothing against Pakistan but we have a lot of complaints about pakistani government conduct in our country's affairs.

This is our common problem and we must work together to solve it otherwise there will be no solution.

 

[The Patriot]

Hello everyone

As an Afghan, I am very grateful to the poeple of Pakistan especially from pakhtunkhwa for being our hosts for such a long time. The Afghan people are forever indebted to the people of Pakhtunkhwa.

As you guys know Afghanistan is under occupation of foreign forces and country is not stable. The security situation is very bad and it would be cruel to send the refugees back at the moment. I think Pakistan has every right to control its border and decide who stays in and who goes out. As a gesture of friendship, Pakistan must let the Afghan refugees stay in Pakistan as long as there is instability in Afghanistan.

Pakistan and Afghanistan must work together to eliminate the threat of extremism. ISI should not support instability in Afghanistan and support certain groups in Afghanistan for their own advantage. Many Afghans hate Pakistani government for their involvement in Afghanistan's internal affairs. Afghan people don't hate pakistani people bur rather the Pakistani government. We have nothing against Pakistan but we have a lot of complaints about pakistani government conduct in our country's affairs.

This is our common problem and we must work together to solve it otherwise there will be no solution.

Pakistan was forced to interfere in Afghanistan as your country was hostile to it and didnt accept Pakistan. It was interfering in Pakistan and had raised the Pashtunisatan issue. Thats why Pakistan had to neutralize the threat from the west for its own security.
If Afghans dont like Pakistani govt it means that dont like Pakistan because our govt is made of Pakistanis. Its strange that you live in a country who extended you brotherhood and yet speak ill of it.

 

[SecularHumanist]

Hello everyone

As an Afghan, I am very grateful to the poeple of Pakistan especially from pakhtunkhwa for being our hosts for such a long time. The Afghan people are forever indebted to the people of Pakhtunkhwa.

As you guys know Afghanistan is under occupation of foreign forces and country is not stable. The security situation is very bad and it would be cruel to send the refugees back at the moment. I think Pakistan has every right to control its border and decide who stays in and who goes out. As a gesture of friendship, Pakistan must let the Afghan refugees stay in Pakistan as long as there is instability in Afghanistan.

Pakistan and Afghanistan must work together to eliminate the threat of extremism. ISI should not support instability in Afghanistan and support certain groups in Afghanistan for their own advantage. Many Afghans hate Pakistani government for their involvement in Afghanistan's internal affairs. Afghan people don't hate pakistani people bur rather the Pakistani government. We have nothing against Pakistan but we have a lot of complaints about pakistani government conduct in our country's affairs.

This is our common problem and we must work together to solve it otherwise there will be no solution.

I have no problem with them living here temporarily as long as we have a long-term plan for them. I am in favour of fencing and patrolling the border. Will you guys accept our fencing of the border? No. Afghanistan doesn't recognize the Durand line and has already sent troops for the pashtunistan cause in 1960. Thankfully Pakistan Army took care of them. Let it be clear that NWFP will always be part of Pakistan.

We know that if Afghanistan becomes stable again, you will bring up the pashtunistan issue once again. These same refugees will go back to a stable Afghanistan and they will have planted the propaganda seeds for a pashtunistan here, in the minds of Pakistani pashtuns. As long as you don't recognize the Durand Line we will not be able to work together and live in peace.

 

[Shapur]

Pakistan was forced to interfere in Afghanistan as your country was hostile to it and didnt accept Pakistan. It was interfering in Pakistan and had raised the Pashtunisatan issue. Thats why Pakistan had to neutralize the threat from the west for its own security.
If Afghans dont like Pakistani govt it means that dont like Pakistan because our govt is made of Pakistanis. Its strange that you live in a country who extended you brotherhood and yet speak ill of it.

By accepting Pakistan, the pashtun nation was divided in 2. What has happened has happened and it is history. I think both countries must find a solution for this common problem. Daud Khan, the president of Afghanistan raised the pashtunistan issue to stir the emotions of pashtuns and win support for himself within Afghanistan. He knew very well that Afghanistan alone can not re draw the borders without support of the super powers. It was just a propaganda war, nothing more.
In the middle of all this unfortunately many innocent people have lost their lives and both countries have suffered alot. I see many pakistanis on this board complain about Afghan refugees and accuse them of crime and what not. The same thing happens in Iran where refugees are an easy target for the government to hid their own failures. Its very easy to blame refugees for the ills of your country.
What Pakistani government has done in Afghanistan is not even compared to what Afghanistan has ever tried. I have seen with my own eyes pakistani Taliban fighting in the north of Afghanistan in the name of Islam and what not. What right do they have to come to my country and try to impose their Islam on us?

If I hate president Bush it doesn't mean I hate all Americans. If I hate the ayathollas it doesn't mean I hate Iranians. There is a difference between common innocent people and government and their supporters. There are good and bad pakistanis just like there are good and bad AFghans. We only hate bad pakistanis and not the common everyday people. If Afghans suddenly come to Pakistan and start to impose their version of islam on the streets of Karachi and Lahore, wouldn't you hate them?

As long as this border problem is not solved, we will achieve nothing.

 

[Shapur]

I have no problem with them living here temporarily as long as we have a long-term plan for them. I am in favour of fencing and patrolling the border. Will you guys accept our fencing of the border? No. Afghanistan doesn't recognize the Durand line and has already sent troops for the pashtunistan cause in 1960. Thankfully Pakistan Army took care of them. Let it be clear that NWFP will always be part of Pakistan.

Why should we build fences instead of bridges? We are both muslim countries and there are pashtuns on both sides of the border. This is not like punjabis case where the eastern punjabis are sikhs and western punjabis are muslims. All pashtuns are muslims and they are very close community. They will never accept fences. Even if both governments agree to fence it, it won't work. Its not practical.

Instead we must try to enhance our friendship and make the border areas more developed so this problem of extremism is solved. Pakistan should try to build schools there instead of building madrasas to radicalize the youth so they can keep them away from nationalism. ISI thinks it can manipulate pashtun youth by telling them nationalism is haram and we should care about Islam. This is a two way sword and it will hurt pakistan as well as it is already happening and the Taliban strategy is already backfiring. I hate no problem with NWFP being part of pakistan as long as the border is not fenced and the movement of civilians is not restricted.

We know that if Afghanistan becomes stable again, you will bring up the pashtunistan issue once again. These same refugees will go back to a stable Afghanistan and they will have planted the propaganda seeds for a pashtunistan here, in the minds of Pakistani pashtuns. As long as you don't recognize the Durand Line we will not be able to work together and live in peace.

So its OK for Pakistan to keep Afghanistan destroyed so it doesn't become a threat to Pakistan? This is paranoid thinking. If Pakistan is strong enough and its national unity is strong enough, nothing will divide pakistan. On the other hand if the government is not fair and all ethnicities are not respected equally, divisions will appear naturally.
The Baloch problem is not caused by Afghanistan but its caused by pakistan itself. pakistan has invested almost nothing in BAlochistan compared to Sindh and Punjab and even NWFP. The huge natural gas resources of Balochistan has not been used for its prosperity but it has been stolen by others.

Even if we accept the Durand line. pakistan will stay paranoid and will middle in the affairs of Afghanistan. Because pakistan is scared India might gain the upper hand in AFghanistan. This India-Pakistan competition is very bad for us. I hope Pakistan and India find a solution to the problem of kashmir and work together so Afghanistan and pakistan and india can live together peacefully.

 

[The Patriot]

Why should we build fences instead of bridges? We are both muslim countries and there are pashtuns on both sides of the border.

Pashtuns are always good with fences. See their houses which are like small fortresses and with huge walls. Why they build such houses while living with their fellow Pashtuns.

By fencing we dont mean to restrict every person. but only the bad guys. Common people can travel with proper documentations anytime they wish. Why you guys are against a proper channel.

 

[SecularHumanist]

Why should we build fences instead of bridges? We are both muslim countries and there are pashtuns on both sides of the border. This is not like punjabis case where the eastern punjabis are sikhs and western punjabis are muslims. All pashtuns are muslims and they are very close community. They will never accept fences. Even if both governments agree to fence it, it won't work. Its not practical.

Instead we must try to enhance our friendship and make the border areas more developed so this problem of extremism is solved. Pakistan should try to build schools there instead of building madrasas to radicalize the youth so they can keep them away from nationalism. ISI thinks it can manipulate pashtun youth by telling them nationalism is haram and we should care about Islam. This is a two way sword and it will hurt pakistan as well as it is already happening and the Taliban strategy is already backfiring. I hate no problem with NWFP being part of pakistan as long as the border is not fenced and the movement of civilians is not restricted.

The pashtuns and muslims on other side are Afghans. The pashtuns and muslims on this side are Pakistanis. Simple. Your analogy of the sikhs and muslims in east and west Pakistan doesn't make sense. They cannot move freely because they are INDIANS and PAKISTANIS. That is why they have to go through the border security and proper procedure. It is in Pakistan's security interest to fence and patrol the border. After this mess is over this will need to be done.

Who said the movement of civilians will not be allowed. They will be allowed to cross the border the way it is done in all other countries. You bring your passport and paperwork. This WILL be part of developing the border areas and making them terrorism free.

So its OK for Pakistan to keep Afghanistan destroyed so it doesn't become a threat to Pakistan? This is paranoid thinking. If Pakistan is strong enough and its national unity is strong enough, nothing will divide pakistan. On the other hand if the government is not fair and all ethnicities are not respected equally, divisions will appear naturally.
The Baloch problem is not caused by Afghanistan but its caused by pakistan itself. pakistan has invested almost nothing in BAlochistan compared to Sindh and Punjab and even NWFP. The huge natural gas resources of Balochistan has not been used for its prosperity but it has been stolen by others.

Even if we accept the Durand line. pakistan will stay paranoid and will middle in the affairs of Afghanistan. Because pakistan is scared India might gain the upper hand in AFghanistan. This India-Pakistan competition is very bad for us. I hope Pakistan and India find a solution to the problem of kashmir and work together so Afghanistan and pakistan and india can live together peacefully.

Nope I never said that. You are putting words into my mouth. If we are not strong and don't respect everyone, then we will bring trouble to ourselves. We can blame ourselves for that. However, it is a completely different case when you guys try to forment trouble in our frontier. That will not be in the interest of peace between us.

Why don't you accept the Durand Line?

 

[muse]

Shahpur makes some valid points, both Pakistan and Afghanistan are Muslim majority countries however; Pakistanis must not be decieved into thinking that Pakistani Pashtun do not know how Afghans really think - because Pakistani Pashtun know very well how Afghans think.

Building bridges? Sure, Compassion for a brother Muslim? Sure. Must we not ask why not build bridges in Afghanistan? Must we not ask why not compassion inside Afghanistan?

Every single hour of every single day, all Afghan radio and TV are filled with Anti-Pakistan propaganda messages - now of course the Afghan offer that radio and TV and newspaper messagea re controlled by the US, this is less than the truth, fact of the matter is that Afghans refuse to have a serious and truthful discussion and debate about their recent past.

Why should Afghans discuss and debate their recent past? Isn't it easier to say Pakistan is to blame for the troubles Afghans have faced?

Precisely because of these kinds of flawed thinking, Afghans should engage in honest and truthful discussions inside and outside Pakistan, about their recent past. If they continue in their flawed thinking that Pakistan is at the heart of their problems, they will find that the idea of uniting Pashtuns will gain currency inside Pakistan and this idea will become a mortal threat to the idea of Afghanistan as it is constituted now. Peoples who refuse to take responsibility for themselves invite others to do it for them, Afghan brothers would do well to understand that brothers are those who behave as brothers. We cannot accept as brothers those whose hearts are filled with anger and whose mouths are used to spread poison.

Pakistana nd Afghanistan have much in common, actually most everything - and while the people of Pakhtunkhwa are thanked by Shahpur, we must ask, if he is aware of the millions who have lived and still live in Sindh? of those who made Punjab thier home? Of those who still live in Balouchistan? Perhaps Daoud Khan's poison has not been exercised as completely as it should be.

 

[The Patriot]

You are right muse. I sometimes listen to Afghan media and believe me i have stopped listening to it because its filled so much propaganda against Pakistan that I couldnt bear it anymore. Pakistan bashing has become a fashion and a proof of loyalty. Many would not believe me but i have found hatred in Afghan media thousand times may be more than Indian media towards Pakistan.

 

[muse]

A honest discussion inside Afghanistan about their recent history is not just good for Pakistan, it will help Afghanistan heal herself.

Many Pakistanis seem apologetic that Pakistanis care about what happens inside Afghanistan -- this is not only unfair it's not true; we care deeply because our security is tied to it, that's just the way it is. Pakistan, as a responsibility, will never allow, for long, a Afghanistan that is a security threat to 180 million Pakistanis,in addition to a threat to 17 million Afghans, regardless of ethnic, religious, linguistic or any other kind of affiliation, that's just the way it is.

 

[alirulesall123]

Well you are very wrong, am born and bred pakistani, yes i do have anti punjabi element in me, because when u ask a pushtoon to chose betwen an afghan pushtoon or a punjabi then u know what the answer is going to be,

Punjabis share indian heritage while pushtoons and balochs share afghan/iranian heritage so links are always going to be stronger in that sense.

As far as tajiks are concerned well i have no probs with them, they helped conquer india with ghaznavi and ghuri, so they did alot more then u can offer which is their life.

i dont want this thread to turn nasty so am gonna leave u to ur lil punjabi world.

Pakistani first, Pashtun Second. If you want to go live amongst your criminal cousins, go to Afghanistan. But if you want to live amongst your true brothers, then stay in Pakistan, and accept the Fact that Pakistanis put their nationality before their ethnicity.

Pashtun, Punjabi, Balochi, Sindhi, Kashmiri, hindu, muslim, sikh, christian =

 

[muse]

Alirulesall


Proud to be on any team you are on

No Pakistani, Pashtunor not, that does not seem to have any real experience of Afghans, will think as Awaaz has suggested - and about the Indian heritage stuff, like I said he does not seem to know Indian culture is with Afghan pashtun, morning, day and night, and it is not just song and dance, it's things like caste system, examine sub-tribes and clans carefully, you will see it for yourself - there isn't anything Iranian or anything else about them - Appni billi apne sey...

 

[Shapur]

For those who blame Afghans for trouble in pakistan, Take a look at the begining of this video. I am sure pakistanis will undrestand what language he is speaking.