HK-417A2 a worthy replacement for G3 battle rifles.

[A1Kaid]

POF needs to develop a new battle rifle, mass purchasing a new standard issue rifle isn't the answer not economically nor militarily.

 

[RAMPAGE]

POF needs to develop a new battle rifle, mass purchasing a new standard issue rifle isn't the answer not economically nor militarily.

What about the new concepts like the S&T Daewoo K11 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ???

Do you guys think that these air burst grenades can be used in a scenario other than urban warfare ???

 

[Zarvan]

• 
  
  

  POF needs to develop a new battle rifle, mass purchasing a new standard issue rifle isn't the answer not economically nor militarily.

  Sir we should take license of HK-417 and prodce it in Pakistan Sir

 

[untitled]

The best option for PA would be a develop a carbine version of the G-3 or any other rifle which fires the 7.62 NATO

I have never seen a carbine version of of 7.62 NATO rifle BTW

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

What about the Chinese bullpups, they look n

g3 iis not heavier than a ar10 or a scar with a quadrail fore end.

Paramilitary n civilian ATUs are already using QBZs ... personally ive never used one... so no idea.

 

[That Guy]

POF needs to develop a new battle rifle, mass purchasing a new standard issue rifle isn't the answer not economically nor militarily.

Actually, developing a rifle locally would cost a lot more than buying in bulk, an off the shelf system. Now, of course, there would be a licence production for the standardization of the rifle, so Pakistan doesn't need to develop it's own rifle just yet. Besides, it would take years to develop a brand new modern rifle, and Pakistan doesn't have the luxury of time.

 

[MilSpec]

Actually, developing a rifle locally would cost a lot more than buying in bulk, an off the shelf system. Now, of course, there would be a licence production for the standardization of the rifle, so Pakistan doesn't need to develop it's own rifle just yet. Besides, it would take years to develop a brand new modern rifle, and Pakistan doesn't have the luxury of time.

Not a all.... developing an in house infantry rifle, and locally producing it would be much more feasable... Even if it costs the same as the importing, the bulk of the money will be going in to your own economy instead of paying a foriegn country. An AK retails around $350- 450 whereas the mfg costs are less than $80. Mark up on a small arms systems are tremendous.

Pakistan especially has an illustrious rifleman culture and a very talented local gun smithing industry... I am hopeful that you guys can come up with a good indigenous functional infantry combat system

 

[That Guy]

Not a all.... developing an in house infantry rifle, and locally producing it would be much more feasable... Even if it costs the same as the importing, the bulk of the money will be going in to your own economy instead of paying a foriegn country. An AK retails around $350- 450 whereas the mfg costs are less than $80. Mark up on a small arms systems are tremendous.

Pakistan especially has an illustrious rifleman culture and a very talented local gun smithing industry... I am hopeful that you guys can come up with a good indigenous functional infantry combat system

The problem is that R&D costs money, plus you have to add in the cost of manufacturing and training, etc, etc. If you want a military grade rifle that's future proof, you need to spend quite a bit of money. Yes, there are gun smiths in Pakistan, but that doesn't mean they have the technical know how to produce a brand new system that the military can use as a standard issue rifle, because most of them specialize in repairing or cloning existing weapons systems. Now, you do have a point that the money stays in Pakistan, but money isn't the only problem; I've mentioned it before, but time is also a limiting factor, Pakistan simple doesn't have the luxury of time.

Importing already manufactured guns, or getting a licensed manufacturing + production is quicker, easier, and more cost effective in the short term, because you don't have to waste time to wait until the rifle has been cleared by the military, which can itself take a heavy toll financially. Another problem arises that the locally developed rifle may not live up to military expectations, in which case the rifle could be cancelled anyway. It's happened with many military forces, simple example would be Korea.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

it is a nice reliable rifle, but is an ar platform, so will be prone to good upkeep. G3's on the other hand are very durable tack drivers...

Why does the G3 need replacement in the first place, they are pretty good rifles.

post number 9 shows you what clue people have when they give a definitive verdict about a something with little to no knowledge and to be used by a service and in conditions they themselves never experienced
we run away from fancy AR platform due to their high maintenance for us the eastern European and Russian AKs and their chinese rip offs work best at best we need something that accommodates some accessories of modern times and specially in the current scenario is of carbine size and weight.
the western fancy guns will see use but they will be limited to airforce and Navys' limited special forces or our own special forces but then again our SSG/SSGN are already using M4 and Styr AUG.

if a new independent airborne infantry brigade is raised on the lines of American Rangers or 101 then something lighter and modern may be adopted but thats already covered by our modified type 56/81

 

[A1Kaid]

Actually, developing a rifle locally would cost a lot more than buying in bulk, an off the shelf system. Now, of course, there would be a licence production for the standardization of the rifle, so Pakistan doesn't need to develop it's own rifle just yet. Besides, it would take years to develop a brand new modern rifle, and Pakistan doesn't have the luxury of time.

It doesn't matter if it cost more, in the long run it is better and a more sustainable policy. You don't see Germany, US, France, Israel, China, Russia, importing rifles to issue to their own army because those countries understand developing their own rifle is the best way. Also, no it wouldn't take years to develop a new brand rifle, if they really wanted to it could be done in 1 year with rigorous testing. "Doesn't have the luxury of time"? Why what's the hurry? Is the G3 falling apart? G3 is a solid platform, earlier you mentioned the weight being an issue, the weight isn't a significant factor, it's downside is that it isn't as tactical as new rifles.

The problem is that R&D costs money, plus you have to add in the cost of manufacturing and training, etc, etc. If you want a military grade rifle that's future proof, you need to spend quite a bit of money. Yes, there are gun smiths in Pakistan, but that doesn't mean they have the technical know how to produce a brand new system that the military can use as a standard issue rifle, because most of them specialize in repairing or cloning existing weapons systems. Now, you do have a point that the money stays in Pakistan, but money isn't the only problem; I've mentioned it before, but time is also a limiting factor, Pakistan simple doesn't have the luxury of time.

Importing already manufactured guns, or getting a licensed manufacturing + production is quicker, easier, and more cost effective in the short term, because you don't have to waste time to wait until the rifle has been cleared by the military, which can itself take a heavy toll financially. Another problem arises that the locally developed rifle may not live up to military expectations, in which case the rifle could be cancelled anyway. It's happened with many military forces, simple example would be Korea.

Why do you think we have a POF in the first place? You think importing is the solution to a new rifle which is really flawed thinking. It doesn't matter if developing one cost money, that's why we have a defense budget, raise the budget if need be, and collect more taxes. Besides, after Pakistan develops it's own rifle it can recoup and generate profit by exporting the new rifle to other countries.

I've mentioned it before, but time is also a limiting factor, Pakistan simple doesn't have the luxury of time.

Why don't we have time? For over a decade Pakistan has been using the G3 and it is reliable as it was then as it is now. Pakistan has all the time it needs, a new rifle could be developed if POF was really pushed in a year.

Another problem arises that the locally developed rifle may not live up to military expectations, in which case the rifle could be cancelled anyway.

Then you fix the problem, you don't not build a rifle because it may not meet military expectations, you design and engineer it right by developing prototypes first.

What about the new concepts like the S&T Daewoo K11 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ???

Do you guys think that these air burst grenades can be used in a scenario other than urban warfare ???

Air burst grenades can absolutely be used effectively in the close-range field to hit enemy targets that are entrenched in a specific area or taking cover.

 

[A1Kaid]

IMO the scar is too bulky. I hate it. It feels like your carrying around a brick or something.

Are you serious? I had the opportunity to check out the Scar-H and Scar-L and both were surprisingly light weight.

 

[Hakan]

Are you serious? I had the opportunity to check out the Scar-H and Scar-L and both were surprisingly light weight.

im saying the shape. For me it doesn't feel smooth. It is light though.

 

[A1Kaid]

im saying the shape. For me it doesn't feel smooth. It is light though.

Yeah it does kind of have a block like shape on the upper receiver however that was done to support the top long p-rail. Though I didn't see that as a negative because my hand is going to be on the pistol grip and my finger on the trigger. The rifle feels good, only one thing I didn't like was the stock charging handle it didn't feel solid, but you can obviously change the charging handle.



This is the Scar-L

 

[That Guy]

It doesn't matter if it cost more, in the long run it is better and a more sustainable policy. You don't see Germany, US, France, Israel, China, Russia, importing rifles to issue to their own army because those countries understand developing their own rifle is the best way. Also, no it wouldn't take years to develop a new brand rifle, if they really wanted to it could be done in 1 year with rigorous testing. "Doesn't have the luxury of time"? Why what's the hurry? Is the G3 falling apart? G3 is a solid platform, earlier you mentioned the weight being an issue, the weight isn't a significant factor, it's downside is that it isn't as tactical as new rifles.



Why do you think we have a POF in the first place? You think importing is the solution to a new rifle which is really flawed thinking. It doesn't matter if developing one cost money, that's why we have a defense budget, raise the budget if need be, and collect more taxes. Besides, after Pakistan develops it's own rifle it can recoup and generate profit by exporting the new rifle to other countries.



Why don't we have time? For over a decade Pakistan has been using the G3 and it is reliable as it was then as it is now. Pakistan has all the time it needs, a new rifle could be developed if POF was really pushed in a year.



Then you fix the problem, you don't not build a rifle because it may not meet military expectations, you design and engineer it right by developing prototypes first.




Air burst grenades can absolutely be used effectively in the close-range field to hit enemy targets that are entrenched in a specific area or taking cover.

Your entire argument can be debunked in two questions, who's going to pay for the development? What is the military going to use to fight this current war as a replacement for the G-3 (as a stop gap)?

The situation isn't as simplistic as you're making it out to be.

 

[A1Kaid]

Your entire argument can be debunked in two questions, who's going to pay for the development? What is the military going to use to fight this current war as a replacement for the G-3 (as a stop gap)?

The situation isn't as simplistic as you're making it out to be.

who's going to pay for the development?

The same who pay for the military and POF. You act as if the country doesn't have money to mass produce a rifle, that is the flaw in your logic. Who appointed you secretary of the Treasury, you're cost arguement is baseless, because as I told you and others told you that for Pakistan developing a new rifle is more beneficial both militarily and economically. First, money would be spent inside the economy supporting domestic arms industry. Second, it's a more sustainable policy than just importing new rifles--because in actuality many new rifles (especially western manufactured ones) are more expensive than what Pakistan or POF could manufacture one for. Third, once a new rifle is developed Pakistan can sell it for export to other countries and recoup all cost incurred during development phase and generate profit afterwards.

What is the military going to use to fight this current war as a replacement for the G-3 (as a stop gap)?

We're not discussing stop gap, we're discussing a new standard issued rifle. G-3 is fine for current war and insurgency, it doesn't need to be replaced because of the current war, it needs to be replaced because there's a need for a new and more tactical rifle one that preferably has a piston upper and other advantages.

The fact that you think we need a "stop-gap" proves you are simply thinking short-term, and that is we're we differ. I don't even think you ever fired a G3, they are solid and dependable in battle and the "current war" is no matter for the G3.

G3 has been used in these conflicts.

Portuguese Colonial War
Rhodesian Bush War
Six-Day War
South African Border War
Carnation Revolution
The Troubles
Iranian Revolution
Iran–Iraq War
Salvadoran Civil War
Kurdish–Turkish conflict
Ethiopian Civil War
Gulf War
Yugoslav Wars
Sierra Leone Civil War
War in North-West Pakistan
Operation Enduring Freedom/ISAF—Afghanistan
Second Gulf War
Mexican Drug War
Syrian civil war

Wiki

All of a sudden we need to get a "stop-gap" rifle because of what? The insurgency in Waziristan? Can you specifically cite any failures that you can attribute to the G3 rifle in counter-insurgency operations?