What's new

History’s Lessons

Hellfire

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Mar 14, 2009
Messages
4,898
Reaction score
76
Country
India
Location
India
IRFAN HUSAIN

AS we exchange verbal and artillery salvos with Afghanistan across the border, Iran threatens to send troops into our territory to take out the terrorists who have been killing its border guards.

Clearly not the best way to make friends in our neighbourhood. As it is, our forces are eyeball-to-eyeball with Indian soldiers on the Line of Control in Kashmir, and China has often privately complained about the activities of our tableeghis in and around Xinjiang. Chinese citizens too have been killed by our jihadis while working on engineering projects.

In brief, we have managed to antagonise all four of our neighbours. Luckily, Chinese self-interest has prevented our major benefactor from taking these pinpricks too seriously.

We have managed to antagonise all our neighbours.
But this does not alter the fact that, in a difficult region, our diplomacy has been singularly crass.

But before readers jump up and accuse our Foreign Office, let me point out that our relations with all four of our neighbours are conducted largely by the security establishment.

Over the years, the latter has usurped many of the Foreign Office’s functions but, in particular, it controls our relationship with our immediate neighbours, as well as the United States.

Relations with the latter have been rocky ever since sanctions were imposed over our bouts of martial law, as well as our nuclear programme. If you talk to our generals, you will get a litany of complaints against our principal supplier of weapons, beginning with the cut-off of arms during the 1965 war with India.

What is forgotten is that the formal pacts we entered into with the US entitled us to receive arms specifically to combat communist aggression. These modern weapons were not supposed to be used in other conflicts, especially not one of our own choosing, as the 1965 war was.

Since then, the US has used its military aid as a tool to wield influence in Islamabad. That it failed to rein in our support for the Afghan Taliban and other jihadist groups speaks volumes for the power of the military in formulating defence policy.

And it is only a short step from defence planning to shaping a foreign policy to sustain it. But to achieve all this, a high degree of public support is needed to shut out interference from elected civilian leaders. This requires a degree of control over the media, as well as a message that discredits the political leadership. Here it is often pointed out that the public has been largely brainwashed by what is seen as propaganda produced by the security establishment.

But while we docilely accept actions that isolate us regionally and globally, others do not. For years, we have been accused of using the rugged geographic nature of our borders as an excuse for cross-border militancy. Each time there is a bloody incident involving attacks on neighbouring targets from our soil, the mantra from our Foreign Office is that our borders are too porous for us to control.

However, why should surrounding countries put up with this? While Afghanistan may be too militarily weak to block incursions, should we be surprised if this vulnerability pushes it into the Indian orbit?

And as Americans suffer casualties from militant groups that have operated from Pakistani soil for years, should we be bewildered by the hostility coming our way from Washington? Had we followed a more astute long-range policy, we could have made much more of initial American dependence on Pakistan for its campaign in Afghanistan after 9/11 than we did.

Tensions with Iran are another result of confusion and lack of clarity of our long-term strategic goals. The reality is that we share a long border with our western neighbour, apart from ties rooted in history and culture. By casting our lot with Saudi Arabia, a distant and socially backward country, we risk alienating a friend of long standing.

Our relations with India are not going to improve any time soon, given the baggage both sides carry, but surely an effort to defuse the ongoing tensions would be worth the effort. And here, I must say, Nawaz Sharif has tried his best but has been thwarted at every turn.

One of the first things military history teaches us is that fighting on two fronts is suicide. And here we are, doing our best to open three fronts simultaneously. Another thing grand strategy teaches us is that defence is closely related to the economy: if we are unable to raise the necessary finances, we cannot maintain a credible military machine.

Sadly, these basic lessons seem to have escaped our security establishment. If they are going to run our foreign policy, some reading of Bismarck and Metternich is surely necessary.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1332724/historys-lessons
 
. . .
The authors sense reeks of defeatist ideals and seemingly absolves all blame to our hegemonic neighbor to the east and our mortal enemies to the western border.

The security establishment may have 60% of th fault and that is granted - but it does not absolve the external forces acting against us.
@Horus @araz @fatman17 @niaz

Lest this clearly intended Pakistan bashing thread becomes tok one sided
 
.
By casting our lot with Saudi Arabia, a distant and socially backward country, we risk alienating a friend of long standing.
The only sensible sentance in what is otherwise a thoroughly rubbish article full of self deprecation intended to masturbate the Indian readership at Dawn.

10% sense of this author
Well you can discount me as I don't even share 1% with this author who should be described as a masseuse - irrespective of gender.

Okay here is my take on this.

1. Issues with India are generic - unless people want to reprise the British Indian colony. Suggest you call our old masters back to re-integrate us.

2. Issues with Afghanistan are generic and are to do with the Durand Line. You could have had gay lovin, liberal, green party in power in Pakistan and the Durand issue still would be causing headaches.

3. Issues with Iran are made by Pakistan's failed policy of allowing religion to dilute self interest.

4. Issues with China are made by Pakistan's failed policy of allowing religion to cause grief but it has been saved by China's need for strategic ally.

Of course a more clever and deft policy would have placed Pakistan in better position to handle India and in particular Afghanistan (which was exacerabated by Musharaf timid leadership) but that is another story. Everytime I see Pak flag being burned in Kabul I cuss Musharaf.
 
.
Almost all countries in the Middle East and South Asia that became Independent during the first half of the twentieth century have animosity of some degrees with their neighbors. When natural ethno-cultural boundaries of a million impoverished illiterates were forcefully altered and unchallenged, it is bound to become a boiling pot for the new rulers who had neither the Military nor economic competency to preserve the regional peace the British used to maintain. It will be far escape from truth if we raise fingers only at one country's leadership alone.
 
.
There is no doubt that Pakistan diplomacy has been crass and rudderless since long. Pakistan has lot more enemies and fewer friends now than they were a decade ago. It is hard to say who runs Pakistan's foreign policy. The conflicting signals coming out of Pakistan makes outsider dizzy. Outsiders don't know what to expect from Pakistan. I can say Pakistan must be the most complex country to deal with. Only China knows how to deal with Pakistan.
 
.
AS we exchange verbal and artillery salvos with Afghanistan across the border, Iran threatens to send troops into our territory to take out the terrorists who have been killing its border guards.

Should we exchange sweets and love to Afghanistan which wilfully targeted our civilians. You know its amazing that always blame is placed on us and our enemies are ignored.

I believe the writer forgets that the two governments are actually improving relations and highlighting Iranian concerns we have decided to up the number of troops on the border and create border controls not too mention we also have a joint security pact.

Although the threat by Iran was very serious yet wasn't it their ambassador that said not true and out of context.

Clearly not the best way to make friends in our neighbourhood. As it is, our forces are eyeball-to-eyeball with Indian soldiers on the Line of Control in Kashmir, and China has often privately complained about the activities of our tableeghis in and around Xinjiang. Chinese citizens too have been killed by our jihadis while working on engineering projects.

Not it isn't. The neighborhood is filled with rivals.

As they have always been due to Kashmir issue. Perhaps the writer would like to suggest a viable solution. Easy to write lines. Difficult to give solutions.

And action was taken and if I remember correctly China applauded our action and told us that they were satisfied so the statement is very wrong.

Yes and the China know who are to blame for that and its not us. We have raised security forces for their security.

In brief, we have managed to antagonise all four of our neighbours. Luckily, Chinese self-interest has prevented our major benefactor from taking these pinpricks too seriously.

The brief is inaccurate and illectually dishonest.

If anything yje Chinese don't take pinpricks lightly. They wilfully again and again antagonize and threaten India or any country that talks to the dalai lama having forgotten that this effects the relations and he is not e end a pin prick. The author is confusing China and america. America doesn't care about pin pricks. China does and does a lot. Its bcx china cares that we did operations against Uighurs.

But this does not alter the fact that, in a difficult region, our diplomacy has been singularly crass.

Agreed. The diplomacy should have been far better. We have failed in diplomatic front yet many believe that diplomacy means being friends. No your actions with your rivals and enemies is also diplomacy and yes it has been rubbish.

But before readers jump up and accuse our Foreign Office, let me point out that our relations with all four of our neighbours are conducted largely by the security establishment.

The biggest illusion that is pandered is the fact that an elected government takes orders from the military. If anybody follows Pakistan politics and history they will realize that despite the heavy handedness of raheel, the elected government is very much independent especially under bajwa.

If all decisions of our neighbors are taken by our military then would the writer give credit to the army for CPEC or give credit to the army for our great relations with Iran before revolution and even now when we are warming. No. Its the same old story. Every positive is either luck or politicians all negative is bcz of army. Can't have one without the other.

Over the years, the latter has usurped many of the Foreign Office’s functions but, in particular, it controls our relationship with our immediate neighbours, as well as the United States

Quite frankly over the years it has weakened. After musharrag martial law and his fall, kiyani depoliticized the army and despite raheels upward approach, the army was never at the helm of decision making. Infact with bajwa it will only lose more political power. This is what happens when democratic governments continue the process. What made army very powerful was the fact that martial laws happened again and again. Our pseudo liberals have this paranoia that the elected govt is a mere puppet.

Relations with the latter have been rocky ever since sanctions were imposed over our bouts of martial law, as well as our nuclear programme. If you talk to our generals, you will get a litany of complaints against our principal supplier of weapons, beginning with the cut-off of arms during the 1965 war with India.

History. Has little relevance and no martial laws were not the reason. In fact many american leaders highlighted that it's far easier working with generals. Quite a shocking statement considering whenever we had military generals our relations with america soared.

Nuclear is a yes. It didn't hell and effected our relations negatively but thankfully at that time US needed us due to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. You see the interest Lin prick theory.

Yes that effected our relations negatively but they soared when they gave us F16. Remember the america America mantra.

What is forgotten is that the formal pacts we entered into with the US entitled us to receive arms specifically to combat communist aggression. These modern weapons were not supposed to be used in other conflicts, especially not one of our own choosing, as the 1965 war was.

Even the Americans knew that these weapons were not going to sit idly by while the enemy was moving towards Islamabad.

Indians and Russians point to open american support for Pakistan in 1971.

Since then, the US has used its military aid as a tool to wield influence in Islamabad. That it failed to rein in our support for the Afghan Taliban and other jihadist groups speaks volumes for the power of the military in formulating defence policy.

That has been the way all super powers control lesser countries.

Or maybe the fact is that the US and the ANA has completely failed to take control of their territories from Afghanistan. The fact that 50% of Afghanistan is controlled or contested and the Taliban are growing influence in villages speaks volume of the American inability. Even if the leadership is hiding in Pakistan, that alone is no excuse for the abysmal performance of ANA and the writer should be reminded that our neighbors are nor saintly.

And it is only a short step from defence planning to shaping a foreign policy to sustain it. But to achieve all this, a high degree of public support is needed to shut out interference from elected civilian leaders. This requires a degree of control over the media, as well as a message that discredits the political leadership. Here it is often pointed out that the public has been largely brainwashed by what is seen as propaganda produced by the security establishment.

Good lord. This rubbish of brainwashing. Our media and I repeat our media is very critical of the army. Our politicians are very critical. Yeah great propaganda. ISPR does one tweet and the media enters into anti army rants. Yeah legendary control. Just amazing. The political leadership is discredited when it promises no loadshedding and then light doesn't come in 12 hours. When it promises gas but doesn't deliver. When their sons and daughters kill people and go scot free. When their offshore accounts are found.

Pure utter rubbish yar. No sane person would call this a good article.

Was the public brainwashed when it was siding with the terrorists against our army and spitting at them? When there was massive hatred for them? What was that if not the influence of free media.

But while we docilely accept actions that isolate us regionally and globally, others do not. For years, we have been accused of using the rugged geographic nature of our borders as an excuse for cross-border militancy. Each time there is a bloody incident involving attacks on neighbouring targets from our soil, the mantra from our Foreign Office is that our borders are too porous for us to control.



However, why should surrounding countries put up with this? While Afghanistan may be too militarily weak to block incursions, should we be surprised if this vulnerability pushes it into the Indian orbit?

And as Americans suffer casualties from militant groups that have operated from Pakistani soil for years, should we be bewildered by the hostility coming our way from Washington? Had we followed a more astute long-range policy, we could have made much more of initial American dependence on Pakistan for its campaign in Afghanistan after 9/11 than we did.

Tensions with Iran are another result of confusion and lack of clarity of our long-term strategic goals. The reality is that we share a long border with our western neighbour, apart from ties rooted in history and culture. By casting our lot with Saudi Arabia, a distant and socially backward country, we risk alienating a friend of long standing.

Our relations with India are not going to improve any time soon, given the baggage both sides carry, but surely an effort to defuse the ongoing tensions would be worth the effort. And here, I must say, Nawaz Sharif has tried his best but has been thwarted at every turn.

One of the first things military history teaches us is that fighting on two fronts is suicide. And here we are, doing our best to open three fronts simultaneously. Another thing grand strategy teaches us is that defence is closely related to the economy: if we are unable to raise the necessary finances, we cannot maintain a credible military machine.

Sadly, these basic lessons seem to have escaped our security establishment. If they are going to run our foreign policy, some reading of Bismarck and Metternich is surely necessary.

An interesting read

I disagree hellfire. It is not. I couldn't even answer the rest due to the simple absurdity of it. Listen I am very practical and understand deep state involvements but this article is low grade.

Funny thing about interest. We always find that which we like interesting. I am sure an article about the freedom struggle of Kashmir which places India and Indian army in a negative light would be an interesting read for us but an uninteresting one for you and you would point exaggerations, absurdities and simple lies.

Anyhow enjoy.
 
.
The authors sense reeks of defeatist ideals and seemingly absolves all blame to our hegemonic neighbor to the east and our mortal enemies to the western border.

The security establishment may have 60% of th fault and that is granted - but it does not absolve the external forces acting against us.
@Horus @araz @fatman17 @niaz

Lest this clearly intended Pakistan bashing thread becomes tok one sided


Ain't a Pakistan bashing thread, that is why placed in the Senior's.

It is more - an 'interesting read'. Because, to a certain extent, what the article indicates, there is a pushback by certain segments of the civil society against the perceived dominance of the security apparatus in formulating the foreign policy.

A nation must never allow it's military to guide the foreign policy, as then the military gets a tool to justify it's raison d'etre, by subverting the foreign relations. Anyways, that is what the logic of a democratic and civil dominated system is, otherwise it merely turns into an autocracy by proxy.

The only sensible sentance in what is otherwise a thoroughly rubbish article full of self deprecation intended to masturbate the Indian readership at Dawn.

Maybe @Oscar if such comments are not posted by member's it would remain a sane thread.


Should we exchange sweets and love to Afghanistan which wilfully targeted our civilians. You know its amazing that always blame is placed on us and our enemies are ignored.

I believe the writer forgets that the two governments are actually improving relations and highlighting Iranian concerns we have decided to up the number of troops on the border and create border controls not too mention we also have a joint security pact.

Although the threat by Iran was very serious yet wasn't it their ambassador that said not true and out of context.



Not it isn't. The neighborhood is filled with rivals.

As they have always been due to Kashmir issue. Perhaps the writer would like to suggest a viable solution. Easy to write lines. Difficult to give solutions.

And action was taken and if I remember correctly China applauded our action and told us that they were satisfied so the statement is very wrong.

Yes and the China know who are to blame for that and its not us. We have raised security forces for their security.



The brief is inaccurate and illectually dishonest.

If anything yje Chinese don't take pinpricks lightly. They wilfully again and again antagonize and threaten India or any country that talks to the dalai lama having forgotten that this effects the relations and he is not e end a pin prick. The author is confusing China and america. America doesn't care about pin pricks. China does and does a lot. Its bcx china cares that we did operations against Uighurs.



Agreed. The diplomacy should have been far better. We have failed in diplomatic front yet many believe that diplomacy means being friends. No your actions with your rivals and enemies is also diplomacy and yes it has been rubbish.



The biggest illusion that is pandered is the fact that an elected government takes orders from the military. If anybody follows Pakistan politics and history they will realize that despite the heavy handedness of raheel, the elected government is very much independent especially under bajwa.

If all decisions of our neighbors are taken by our military then would the writer give credit to the army for CPEC or give credit to the army for our great relations with Iran before revolution and even now when we are warming. No. Its the same old story. Every positive is either luck or politicians all negative is bcz of army. Can't have one without the other.



Quite frankly over the years it has weakened. After musharrag martial law and his fall, kiyani depoliticized the army and despite raheels upward approach, the army was never at the helm of decision making. Infact with bajwa it will only lose more political power. This is what happens when democratic governments continue the process. What made army very powerful was the fact that martial laws happened again and again. Our pseudo liberals have this paranoia that the elected govt is a mere puppet.



History. Has little relevance and no martial laws were not the reason. In fact many american leaders highlighted that it's far easier working with generals. Quite a shocking statement considering whenever we had military generals our relations with america soared.

Nuclear is a yes. It didn't hell and effected our relations negatively but thankfully at that time US needed us due to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. You see the interest Lin prick theory.

Yes that effected our relations negatively but they soared when they gave us F16. Remember the america America mantra.



Even the Americans knew that these weapons were not going to sit idly by while the enemy was moving towards Islamabad.

Indians and Russians point to open american support for Pakistan in 1971.



That has been the way all super powers control lesser countries.

Or maybe the fact is that the US and the ANA has completely failed to take control of their territories from Afghanistan. The fact that 50% of Afghanistan is controlled or contested and the Taliban are growing influence in villages speaks volume of the American inability. Even if the leadership is hiding in Pakistan, that alone is no excuse for the abysmal performance of ANA and the writer should be reminded that our neighbors are nor saintly.



Good lord. This rubbish of brainwashing. Our media and I repeat our media is very critical of the army. Our politicians are very critical. Yeah great propaganda. ISPR does one tweet and the media enters into anti army rants. Yeah legendary control. Just amazing. The political leadership is discredited when it promises no loadshedding and then light doesn't come in 12 hours. When it promises gas but doesn't deliver. When their sons and daughters kill people and go scot free. When their offshore accounts are found.

Pure utter rubbish yar. No sane person would call this a good article.

Was the public brainwashed when it was siding with the terrorists against our army and spitting at them? When there was massive hatred for them? What was that if not the influence of free media.



















I disagree hellfire. It is not. I couldn't even answer the rest due to the simple absurdity of it. Listen I am very practical and understand deep state involvements but this article is low grade.

Funny thing about interest. We always find that which we like interesting. I am sure an article about the freedom struggle of Kashmir which places India and Indian army in a negative light would be an interesting read for us but an uninteresting one for you and you would point exaggerations, absurdities and simple lies.

Anyhow enjoy.

Did say an interesting read, a variation. This forum is Pakistan Defence Forum, so the thread on Pakistan only. I wanted an input. Thanks.
 
.
Did say an interesting read, a variation. This forum is Pakistan Defence Forum, so the thread on Pakistan only. I wanted an input. Thanks.

No no. I thank you for the tag and know I meant no disrespect nor intended any negative adverse.. Indeed it is and variations and different opinions will always be welcome. Military defence forum does not mean all positive news. You know how much I value your's and @Joe Shearer and even @Nilgiri opinion.

I have seen and read some very great articles that highlight military heavy handedness however their grounds are filled with solid reasoning unlike this article.
 
.
No no. I thank you for the tag and know I meant no disrespect nor intended any negative adverse.. Indeed it is and variations and different opinions will always be welcome. Military defence forum does not mean all positive news. You know how much I value your's and @Joe Shearer and even @Nilgiri opinion.

I have seen and read some very great articles that highlight military heavy handedness however their grounds are filled with solid reasoning unlike this article.


Chill.

Yup, slightly rudimentary, but I was more on the crux. It is time that Pakistan strengthened the Civil institutions, especially as the challenging times crop up ahead.

Almost all countries in the Middle East and South Asia that became Independent during the first half of the twentieth century have animosity of some degrees with their neighbors. When natural ethno-cultural boundaries of a million impoverished illiterates were forcefully altered and unchallenged, it is bound to become a boiling pot for the new rulers who had neither the Military nor economic competency to preserve the regional peace the British used to maintain. It will be far escape from truth if we raise fingers only at one country's leadership alone.


Truly said. But then, it is a special capability of the Subcontinent's power blocs to disrupt and derail a perfectly working system. That is what is the case here too, as Pakistan is choosing to open multiple fronts for itself (Iran the latest). Not exactly a wise idea.
 
.
Chill.

Yup, slightly rudimentary, but I was more on the crux. It is time that Pakistan strengthened the Civil institutions, especially as the challenging times crop up ahead.

Lolzz

I think that's exactly what is happening. The very basic form of Democratic system is that the civilian elected institution reigns supreme which highlights civilian representation and opinion reigning supreme. Many have tweaked it but they have never compromised on the aspect of civilian supremacy. The very system of democracy and democratic continuity will see the elected institutions rise to power as time goes by gain greater strength. Case in point. Dawn leaks issue. The army backed down. Always remember that Pakistan is currently new to democracy. Power passing hands from one elected institution to another. This is why we will witness some turbulance which is only natural. Heck forget army vs government. We have a very hidden and very serious government vs judiciary going on.


Hell fire I disagree with the civil institutions. Army is also a civil institution. All institution in a country are civil institution. The army does not come from the sky nor recruit from a foreign land. It's recruits from the same civilians and thus all armies not how above the law they maybe are civilian institutions. The very separation is a lie. Similiarly judiciary, civil servants, governments, police are all civilian institutions in the same meaning as army and thus suffer from the same flaws that the civilians suffer from since they are part of a larger group called a nation or civilians if you must.

The word and battle has always been between elected civilian institution and another civilian institution whose job was never to run the country ( yes it was never their job and I say this despite my personal support for ayub khan). Tomorrow if the judiciary takes down the government then it would again be described as one institution against another.

The trouble comes when one institution goes against another no matter how justified that going could be. It creates turbulence and turmoil which negatively effects the nation and the economy of the country and pits one set of the people against another. You can in a term say that this institutional infighting is another form of a civil war.

In the end all these institutions find their source of power from only one object and no its not the constitution. Its the people. The larger body. Army, govt, judiciary e.t.c are all part of this body. This large body whoever they support will gain power and tower over other institutions. If the body supports judiciary then slowly it will be the supreme court that will be supreme. If the body wishes for military interference and supports that interference then they will interfere and may even take charge. If the body wants their own elected officials to reign supreme then they will.

I have always stated that the military interference in Pakistan politics comes from the fact that Pakistani nation wants the interference.

However let me tell you something. Its over. The army will never do a martial law. I was saying this during kiyani era and raheel era. The reason the army has figured out that the body is extremely fickle and is highly confused. They will support one instution against the other and then abandon that institution to support another. The fate of musharraf has sealed it. Depoliticizing of the army has made sure the best they can do is give an eye.


You see the Pakistani people want both. They want their cake and they want to eat it too. They don't want responsibility of keeping the government in check. They want the army to do that. They want a delicate and even impossible balance where the civilian government is kept in line by the army but no martial laws and army does not interfere much. Impossible isn't it. I admit I want this fiction myself but its impossible. Its time we take matters into our own hands. The first check and balance against the government begins when you vote and that should be the first step. It would be better for the military. They can focus on threats.

This transitional period and nations transitional periods take decades. Slowly its happening. The people have to simply wise up and learn to use their greatest power.


I have said it before and I will say it again. Neither democracy nor military rule has destroyed Pakistan ( both systems have their merits) . The constant flip flopping has destroyed Pakistan. Ruling a nation is a very serious business and we played strike rotation with it. A joke quite frankly and highlights the non seriousness of the nation. If institutional fighting can be categorized as a civil war ( and I do categorize it) then Pakistan has been in a state of civil war since 1958.
 
. .
Almost all countries in the Middle East and South Asia that became Independent during the first half of the twentieth century have animosity of some degrees with their neighbors. When natural ethno-cultural boundaries of a million impoverished illiterates were forcefully altered and unchallenged, it is bound to become a boiling pot for the new rulers who had neither the Military nor economic competency to preserve the regional peace the British used to maintain. It will be far escape from truth if we raise fingers only at one country's leadership alone.

the most sane analysis so far on this thread .. its easy to put blame rather than have determination to see through our own .. Pakistan's losing its allies is somehow related to bad foreign policy and no sane Pakistani is going reject it , but after 9/11 we were not left with many options do we ? on one side we have a hostile neighborhood ,and on second side we have a friendly Mad cow ( America ) bent of destruction of its enemy .. the early 2000's did not see any hostilities between Pakistan and Iran , even relations with Afghans were limited to some harsh statements from Karzai .. but as NATO leave and US influence start to melt down the NA take over Afghan policy , which essentially dictated by the Indian . Pakistan has 2 options in my opinion, either to accept India as leading country in South Asia and follow or, be a nation that stand with its own ideology of two nation and make enemies .. If Author wants us to become Afghanistan or Bangladesh , than no Thanks ..
 
.
If Pakistani members here had 10% sense of this author there would have been very less trolling and much knowledge sharing.

I am seriously interested to know what Afghanistan / Iran has to say as regards to following

  • What was TTP number 2 doing with Afghan forces when he was snatched by Americans?
  • Why every TTP scum who surrendered or was arrested says that NDS /RAW was fully behind them supporting them and even in some cases giving them targets to hit in Pakistan?
  • I have always failed to understand how come ANA is always present on borders to fight Pakistan (recently kill Pakistani civilians) but when it comes to working against terrorists crossing Pakistani border to Afghan side or vice versa they are almost missing?
  • What was Mullah Akhtar Mansoor's business in Iran?
  • What was Kalboshan's business in Iran?
  • Why people like Uzair Baloch carry Iranian nationality?

All of them blame Pakistan for not securing Pakistani borders but they all fail to tell us why every terrorist planner, financier, supporter traced back to their own settled areas?

indians here obviously would always dodge the harsh reality that Khalid Khurasani (the barbarian who is fully involved in APS massacre) got medical treatment in india facilitated by Afghanistan. They would light candles and keep silent for few moments but would never accept that their country and their state has been accomplice to kill many innocent Pakistanis knowingly and intentionally ................ these articles shouldn't and cannot make Pakistanis forget what happened in their cities, towns in last one decade.

Blaming is easy ........ lets gang up and blame Pakistan ........ but daring to admit that all of these countries are party to killing of Pakistanis is hard.
 
Last edited:
.
Back
Top Bottom