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History of Vietnam or What do you want to know about Vietnam?

There are ugly sides of war that may not be appropriate for the conservative way of thinking of the era to be taught to children in school. However, there may be other documents for military and government use that may go into greater details of the event.

You sound bitter. Please keep an open mind as we are talking about "history", an official written recollection of accounts by an individual and not the notes or diaries of the actual person who lived through the event.
No,I'm just tired of the fairy tales that Vietnamese try to pass off as history,but I suppose thieves will be thieves.

ie Chinese stole Vietnamese land in southern China,Chinese stole surnames from Vietnamese,Chinese stole architecture from Vietnamese,Chinese stole Shennong from Vietnamese,the list goes on and on.

well, I am not sure, but you can correct me if wrong. I say the Vietnamese incursions into Chinese territories are not comparable to the Japanese strike on Pearl Harbor.

as far as I know, ancient China had no concept of sovereignty, neither on land nor at sea. China had not exiplicity drawn the border of China on any maps. you never mentioned in records the seas (east or south east china sea) belong to China. All ancient maps of China contain no clear marked border between China and Vietnam. so Vietnamese incursions into China, or Chinese invasions into Vietnam are not really comparable to what we see as violence of borders or aggressions as today?

Perhaps it is because you claimed "everything under the sky belongs to the son of heaven". Chinese emperors saw no need to say "this and that are mine, and this is yours".

as for history, Ly thuong kiet was the man who called for a clear demarcation between Vietnam and China in the northern front. Or the Kingdom of Champa called for clear demarcation between Dai Viet and Champa in the southern front.
Except that Yongzhou wasn't on the border regions and neither was it ruled by Tusi such as the Zhuang.

You would have a better argument if it was some city where the Zhuang held nominal sovereignty however Yongzhou was already under direct Song jurisdiction.

Wang Anshi was invited by Song Shenzong to be Primer Minster of Song court from year 1070 . So without approval of Wang Anshi, no proposal or plant to annex Dai Viet to Song Dynasty should been approved.

Two Song guan Shen Ki (Thẩm Khởi) and Liu Ji (Lưu Di) were ordered to mobilize inhabitants (punti people), produce weapons, build many boats and warships, training soldiers...etc to conquer Dai Viet.
Wang Anshi was expelled before Guo Kui began his counter invasion,quote the Chinese texts where Wang Anshi ordered the invasion of Dai Viet prior to the Vietnamese raids.
 
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Except that Yongzhou wasn't on the border regions and neither was it ruled by Tusi such as the Zhuang.

You would have a better argument if it was some city where the Zhuang held nominal sovereignty however Yongzhou was already under direct Song jurisdiction.

Wang Anshi was expelled before Guo Kui began his counter invasion,quote the Chinese texts where Wang Anshi ordered the invasion of Dai Viet prior to the Vietnamese raids.
can you show me any ancient maps of China with clear demarcation between China and other countries such as Vietnam?

Viet dogs do not have your own writing system.
the ancestors of Vietnamese came from Taiwan. So why developing another writing system? you insult yourself by calling us dog. the native people in Vietnam back then came from the western Pacific, they had their own language but no script, writing system.
 
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can you show me any ancient maps of China with clear demarcation between China and other countries such as Vietnam?
I don't have access to Song era maps,Yongzhou is today's Nanning which doesn't even border Vietnam.

929986e2fa89b5683aa15edf8acb4160.png


Neither the Song or the Ly directly ruled western Guangxi they were instead controlled by Zhuang chieftains that held allegiance to whoever was stronger.

You don't seem to understand that the Ly dynasty never held power over Yongzhou,Qinzhou or Lianzhou prior to their invasion of the area.
 
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I don't have access to Song era maps,Yongzhou is today's Nanning which doesn't even border Vietnam.

View attachment 62617

Neither the Song or the Ly directly ruled western Guangxi they were instead controlled by Zhuang chieftains that held allegiance to whoever was stronger.

You don't seem to understand that the Ly dynasty never held power over Yongzhou,Qinzhou or Lianzhou prior to their invasion of the area.
that is it what I assume. Until the modern times (in the late of the Qing dynasty), China had no clear border demarcation. Whoever had the strength controlled the areas. the Ly might have wanted a bit of China, which was understandable, similar to the Song intention of expanding the territory at the expense of other Kingdoms.
 
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Wang Anshi was expelled before Guo Kui began his counter invasion,quote the Chinese texts where Wang Anshi ordered the invasion of Dai Viet prior to the Vietnamese raids.

Check it yourselves.

If you like to read in chinese you can read and 大越史記全書, this our history books are written in Chinese.

Wang Anshi is ambitious person who was reformer and premier minister in history of China. He was not innocent when plan to annex Dai Viet to China approved by Song Dynasty Emperor and big mobilization in military activities has been made by Chinese. It was not secret.

When he shouldn't involved directly in to this plan, Chinese Emperor Dynasty is responsible for that.
 
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288a751a77ff6017392d810cbbef2593.jpg

Map carved onto stone dated 1137. Each block represent 100 li.
 
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Yes, Lý Thường Kiêt (; 1019–1105) was a Vietnamese general during the Lý Dynasty.. and he is regarded as a Vietnamese National hero.

He penned what is considered the first Vietnamese declaration of independence with his poem. It said:

南國山河
南 國 山 河 南 帝 居
截 然 定 分 在 天 書
如 何 逆 虜 來 侵 犯
汝 等 行 看 取 敗 虛

Dịch thơ:
Sông núi nước Nam
Sông núi nước Nam, vua Nam ở
Rành rành định phận tại sách trời
Cớ sao lũ giặc sang xâm phạm?
Chúng bay sẽ bị đánh tơi bời.

sorry, I can't translate into English,
@Viet got me reading up on Jennifer Chung.

Lý Thường Kiêt also wrote the below in the year 1075.

伐宋露布文

天生蒸民,君德則睦. 君民之道,務在養民. 今聞,宋主昏庸,不循聖范. 聽安石貪邪之計,作青苗助役之科. 使百姓膏脂涂地,而資其肥己之謀.

蓋萬民資賦於天,忽落那要离之毒. 在上固宜可憫,從前切莫須言.

本職奉國王命,指道北行. 欲清妖孽之波淘,有分土無分民之意. 要掃腥穢之污濁,歌堯天享舜日之佳期.

我今出兵,固將拯濟. 檄文到日,用廣聞知. 切自思量,莫懷震怖.

Phạt Tống lộ bố văn

Thiên sinh chưng dân, quân đức tắc mục. Quân dân chi đạo, vụ tại dưỡng dân. Kim văn, Tống chủ hôn dung, bất tuần thánh phạm. Thính An Thạch tham tà chi kế, tác "thanh miêu", "trợ dịch" chi khoa. Sử bách tính cao chi đồ địa, nhi tư kỳ phì kỷ chi mưu.

Cái vạn dân tư phú ư thiên, hốt lạc na yếu li chi độc. Tại thượng cố nghi khả mẫn, tòng tiền thiết mạc tu ngôn.

Bản chức phụng quốc vương mệnh, chỉ đạo Bắc hành. Dục thanh yêu nghiệt chi ba đào, hữu phân thổ vô phân dân chi ý; yếu tảo tinh uế chi ô trọc, ca Nghiêu thiên hưởng Thuấn nguyệt chi giai kỳ.

Ngã kim xuất binh, cố tương chủng tế. Hịch văn đáo nhật, dụng quảng văn tri. Thiết tự tư lường, mạc hoài chấn bố.
 
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@Viet got me reading up on Jennifer Chung.

Lý Thường Kiêt also wrote the below in the year 1075.

伐宋露布文

天生蒸民,君德則睦. 君民之道,務在養民. 今聞,宋主昏庸,不循聖范. 聽安石貪邪之計,作青苗助役之科. 使百姓膏脂涂地,而資其肥己之謀.

蓋萬民資賦於天,忽落那要离之毒. 在上固宜可憫,從前切莫須言.

本職奉國王命,指道北行. 欲清妖孽之波淘,有分土無分民之意. 要掃腥穢之污濁,歌堯天享舜日之佳期.

我今出兵,固將拯濟. 檄文到日,用廣聞知. 切自思量,莫懷震怖.

Phạt Tống lộ bố văn

Thiên sinh chưng dân, quân đức tắc mục. Quân dân chi đạo, vụ tại dưỡng dân. Kim văn, Tống chủ hôn dung, bất tuần thánh phạm. Thính An Thạch tham tà chi kế, tác "thanh miêu", "trợ dịch" chi khoa. Sử bách tính cao chi đồ địa, nhi tư kỳ phì kỷ chi mưu.

Cái vạn dân tư phú ư thiên, hốt lạc na yếu li chi độc. Tại thượng cố nghi khả mẫn, tòng tiền thiết mạc tu ngôn.

Bản chức phụng quốc vương mệnh, chỉ đạo Bắc hành. Dục thanh yêu nghiệt chi ba đào, hữu phân thổ vô phân dân chi ý; yếu tảo tinh uế chi ô trọc, ca Nghiêu thiên hưởng Thuấn nguyệt chi giai kỳ.

Ngã kim xuất binh, cố tương chủng tế. Hịch văn đáo nhật, dụng quảng văn tri. Thiết tự tư lường, mạc hoài chấn bố.

Thanks bro, Its clear that :

聽安石貪邪之計,作青苗助役之科. 使百姓膏脂涂地,而資其肥己之謀.

Thính An Thạch tham tà chi kế, tác "thanh miêu", "trợ dịch" chi khoa. Sử bách tính cao chi đồ địa, nhi tư kỳ phì kỷ chi mưu.
 
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Dont know its funny or not when applying our eating culture in Germany :man_in_love:

'What's wrong with eating a cat?': Vietnamese man in Germany admits killing and barbecuing his neighbour's pet - but doesn't understand what's wrong with it
  • Tran Qui used a bunsen burner to roast the cat belonging to pensioner
  • Said he missed 'tastes of home' so cooked cat and ate it with fish sauce dip
  • Police are investigating him for breaching animal cruelty and hygiene laws
  • Locals have put cat curfew on pets due to fears Qui has scoffed 30 animals
By ANNABEL GROSSMAN FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 09:07 GMT, 19 September 2014 | UPDATED: 13:48 GMT, 19 September 2014


b6e617c24eef4cd77635afbfa284254c.jpg

Tran Qui used a bunsen burner to roast the cat called Mungo who belonged to a local pensioner

A Vietnamese man living in Germany has admitted killing and barbecuing his neighbour's cat - and was then bemused to find himself at the wrath of animal lovers.

'What's wrong with eating a cat?' said Tran Qui who used a bunsen burner to roast the cat called Mungo who belonged to a local pensioner.

Now local pet owners have put a cat curfew on their furry friends leaving home in the Rhineland town of Andernach as it is feared Qui may have scoffed 30 cats which have gone missing in recent months.

Police said they are investigating him for breaching both animal cruelty laws and hygiene regulations.

These specifically forbid consuming pets for food. If charged he could face up to three years behind bars.

A police spokesman said: 'He grilled the animal using a Bunsen burner in the courtyard of his block of flats. It is not uncommon in Asian cultures to eat cat meat. But it is not acceptable in Germany.'

Outraged neighbour Christina Sarwatka, cuddling her moggy Billy, said: 'Thirty cats have gone missing recently around here. I cannot let Billy out anymore. I am scared to death he will be eaten.'

Qui, a father of five, has lived in the town for two years and said he missed the 'tastes of home' - so he cooked the cat and ate it with a dip made of fish sauce, lime juice, coriander and garlic.

Despite an official ban on eating cats, restaurants in the Vietnam still offer the forbidden meat on their menus.


More...
In fact, even in the Southeast Asian nation cat owners fear for their animals’ safety as the consumption of feline meat appears to be on the rise.

A snack of cat meat - colloquially known as 'little tiger' - is typically served with beer and eaten at the beginning of the lunar month.

Cats being sold for meat typically fetch from $50 to $70, depending on the size, which is a hefty sum for many in the impoverished nation.

While cat traders claim to breed the animals legitimately, there are hardly any regulations in place to verify this, so pet owners feat that their beloved moggies will be snatched to keep up with demand.

5bcdcd5012cfcce654a14eb876b222e0.jpg

Feline meat is a delicacy in Vietnam. This picture shows a cook preparing a dish with cat meat at a restaurant in the country's capital Hanoi. The enduring popularity of 'little tiger' as a snack to accompany a beer in Vietnam means that cat owners live in constant fear of animal snatchers, despite an official ban
Vietnamese man in Germany admits killing and eating his neighbour's pet | Daily Mail Online
 
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Dont know its funny or not when applying our eating culture in Germany :man_in_love:

'What's wrong with eating a cat?': Vietnamese man in Germany admits killing and barbecuing his neighbour's pet - but doesn't understand what's wrong with it
  • Tran Qui used a bunsen burner to roast the cat belonging to pensioner
  • Said he missed 'tastes of home' so cooked cat and ate it with fish sauce dip
  • Police are investigating him for breaching animal cruelty and hygiene laws
  • Locals have put cat curfew on pets due to fears Qui has scoffed 30 animals
By ANNABEL GROSSMAN FOR MAILONLINE

PUBLISHED: 09:07 GMT, 19 September 2014 | UPDATED: 13:48 GMT, 19 September 2014


View attachment 66231
Tran Qui used a bunsen burner to roast the cat called Mungo who belonged to a local pensioner

A Vietnamese man living in Germany has admitted killing and barbecuing his neighbour's cat - and was then bemused to find himself at the wrath of animal lovers.

'What's wrong with eating a cat?' said Tran Qui who used a bunsen burner to roast the cat called Mungo who belonged to a local pensioner.

Now local pet owners have put a cat curfew on their furry friends leaving home in the Rhineland town of Andernach as it is feared Qui may have scoffed 30 cats which have gone missing in recent months.

Police said they are investigating him for breaching both animal cruelty laws and hygiene regulations.

These specifically forbid consuming pets for food. If charged he could face up to three years behind bars.

A police spokesman said: 'He grilled the animal using a Bunsen burner in the courtyard of his block of flats. It is not uncommon in Asian cultures to eat cat meat. But it is not acceptable in Germany.'

Outraged neighbour Christina Sarwatka, cuddling her moggy Billy, said: 'Thirty cats have gone missing recently around here. I cannot let Billy out anymore. I am scared to death he will be eaten.'

Qui, a father of five, has lived in the town for two years and said he missed the 'tastes of home' - so he cooked the cat and ate it with a dip made of fish sauce, lime juice, coriander and garlic.

Despite an official ban on eating cats, restaurants in the Vietnam still offer the forbidden meat on their menus.


More...
In fact, even in the Southeast Asian nation cat owners fear for their animals’ safety as the consumption of feline meat appears to be on the rise.

A snack of cat meat - colloquially known as 'little tiger' - is typically served with beer and eaten at the beginning of the lunar month.

Cats being sold for meat typically fetch from $50 to $70, depending on the size, which is a hefty sum for many in the impoverished nation.

While cat traders claim to breed the animals legitimately, there are hardly any regulations in place to verify this, so pet owners feat that their beloved moggies will be snatched to keep up with demand.

View attachment 66232
Feline meat is a delicacy in Vietnam. This picture shows a cook preparing a dish with cat meat at a restaurant in the country's capital Hanoi. The enduring popularity of 'little tiger' as a snack to accompany a beer in Vietnam means that cat owners live in constant fear of animal snatchers, despite an official ban
Vietnamese man in Germany admits killing and eating his neighbour's pet | Daily Mail Online
Why vietnamese alway cook on the ground?
 
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Why vietnamese alway cook on the ground?
Not always. You see, before water taps and stuff got popular in VN, each family had its own well. Also VNese did not have the high fire place to cook (like Chinese mud fire place) so we prepared food on the ground, cooked it on the ground and eat it on the ground. Only families with better condition could afford eating on the table (we don't eat on the bed). Even now with water taps and high kitchen, some VNese still prefer preparing food on the ground.
 
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