History of Tibet

[hoangsa]

Then there will be too many people who have to freed in China!

Yeah ! US and EU really like this idea.
Big with good heart is welcomed by human being. But too big without morality just becomes an ugly monster.

 

[viking02]

Fortunelately, I found another piece of Tibet history.

The Chinese History of Tibet
Tibet has been part of China since the Yuan dynasty (1271-1368). Centuries ago Mongol and Manchu Emperors ruled or influenced large parts of Asia. During the Tang period (618-907), the Tibetan King, Songsten Gampo, married Princess Wen Cheng. The Princess is thought to have had alot of influence in Tibet. During the Yuan dynasty (1271-1368), Tibet was part of the Mongol Empire which was under Yuan rule. At this time, the Yuan Government implemented residence registration, levied taxes, and imposed corvee duties in Tibet. China's "White Paper" claims that the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) "replaced the Yuan dynasty in China and inherited the right to rule Tibet." During the Manchu rule (1644-1911), the Qing army on a number of occasions entered Tibet to protect it. Finally, in 1951, China and the Tibetan Local Government signed a 17-point agreement concerning the peaceful liberation of Tibet. During this time, The 14th Dalai Lama supported this liberation and acknowledged Tibet is one part of China.

The Tibetan History of Tibet
Tibet has a recorded history of statehood extending back to 127 B.C. In the seventh to ninth centuries, the Tibetans often bested the Tang dynasty in battle. Additionally, during this dynasty, the marriage of Princess Wen Cheng and King Gampo was viewed as a strategic move to achieve cooperation and peace between Tibet and China. In 821, after centuries of periodic fighting, China and Tibet signed a treaty where boundaries were confirmed, and each country promised respect for the other's territorial sovereignty. During the Yuan dynasty (1271-1368), the Mongol leader, Genghis Khan, conquered most of Eurasia including China. Thus, instead of China claiming a right to Tibet, Mongolia could assert claim to both China and Tibet. There is no historic evidence to support the assumption that the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) ruled Tibet. In fact, the Qing Emperor in 1652 not only accepted The Fifth Dalai Lama as a leader of an independent state, the Emperor also treated Him as a Divinity on Earth. During this period, Tibet was known in Chinese as Wu-si Zang or Wu-si Guo (guo meaning country). During the Manchu rule (1644-1911), the Qing army was asked by Tibetans to settle disputes. But, this does not support China's right to Tibet. If it did, then the U.S.A. should claim Kuwait and Haiti since it assisted these countries. In fact, on a number of occasions, Tibet exercised power over China, suggesting that perhaps Tibet should claim China! At the time of China's invasion in 1949, Tibet possessed all the attributes of an independent country recognized by international law, including a defined territory, a government, tax system, unique currency, unique postal system and stamps, army, and the ability to carryout international relations. Two years later, the 17-point agreement was imposed on the Tibetan Government by the threat of arms after 40,000 PLA troops had already seized Tibetºs eastern provincial capital, Chamdo. The Tibetan delegates were threatened. The seal of the Tibetan Government was forged by Peking. In Tibet, The 14th Dalai Lama could not freely express His disapproval. However, soon after arriving in India, He repudiated this Agreement stating it was "thrust upon the Tibetan Government and people by the threat of arms." If Tibet had always been a part of China, why was there a need for the 17-point agreement? Finally, the Atlas of Chinese History Maps (published by Chinese Social Science Institute in Beijing) depicts Tibet as an independent country that was never part of China at least before 1280.

(For more)

 

[newguy]

I wonder if anyone is interested in discussing Hawaii and Texas's history before they were absorbed into the US. Same can be seen in Vietnam as well, many minorities in the northern Vietnam want their independence, so how is Vietnam government is going to deal with this? Discussing these kind of topics is nonsense. Obviously whoever has the most powerful military, improves people's living standards and provides the most economic benefits will win.
OP, you are not going to gain anything out of this discussion because everyone has a mouth and they can say whatever they want. And words are the weakest thing in the world otherwise politicians wouldn't be talking S-H-I-T all the time.

 

[hoangsa]

I wonder if anyone is interested in discussing Hawaii and Texas's history before they were absorbed into the US. Same can be seen in Vietnam as well, many minorities in the northern Vietnam want their independence, so how is Vietnam government is going to deal with this? Discussing these kind of topics is nonsense.

You are totally wrong. How can you compare Hawaii and Texas with Tibet ? Read more book, boy.

Tibet has a very long and well-known history. Have Hawaii and Texas got such history ? The world know Tibet very clearly as the land of a famous religion, where create specific and famous monks.

To me Tibetan is far far different from Chinese, like Mongolian and Chinese, like Japanese and Chinese, like Korean and Chinese.

 

[newguy]

You are totally wrong. How can you compare Hawaii and Texas with Tibet ? Read more book, boy.

Tibet has a very long and well-known history. Have Hawaii and Texas got such history ? The world know Tibet very clearly as the land of a famous religion, where create specific and famous monks.

To me Tibetan is far far different from Chinese, like Mongolian and Chinese, like Japanese and Chinese, like Korean and Chinese.

Tibet has a long history, so is their history within the Chinese history. Are you a Tibetan? Since when are you entitled to ask me to read more books? Furthermore, even if you read every single book in the world you can't change the fact that Tibet is part of China so basically you are wasting your time.

 

[Burger Boy]

And could you tell me when was about this Tibetan map?

I heard that Chinese army marched into Tibet in 1950s and conquerred this nation? Is that right?

source conservapedia?

that's some funny $h*t right there.

 

[peaceful]

You are totally wrong. How can you compare Hawaii and Texas with Tibet ? Read more book, boy.

Tibet has a very long and well-known history. Have Hawaii and Texas got such history ? The world know Tibet very clearly as the land of a famous religion, where create specific and famous monks.

To me Tibetan is far far different from Chinese, like Mongolian and Chinese, like Japanese and Chinese, like Korean and Chinese.

How you feel/believe doesn't count for anything -- you are just a random poor vietnamese who doesn't have a real life. You should talk these to your dad/mum, probably they are the only people who care about what you think/talk.

 

[peaceful]

Yeah ! US and EU really like this idea.
Big with good heart is welcomed by human being. But too big without morality just becomes an ugly monster.

so you should keep your mouth shut, start clean up your dump site at home, start constructing your nation rather than wasting time here.

 

[Udtapanchi]

Yeah ! US and EU really like this idea.
Big with good heart is welcomed by human being. But too big without morality just becomes an ugly monster.

Totally agree....

 

[LetsGetRowdy]

Hawaii > US
Falkland Island > UK
Okinawa > Japan
Tibet > China

Deal with it.

 

[Xi'an_ist]

China and Tibet had an arduous relationship for a long time.

It's true that the Tubo empire (Tibetan Empire) existed during the same period as the Tang Dynasty and that the Tubo empire had a strong military than the Tang Dynasty and it once conquered the Tang capital (Chang'an, nowadays Xi'an) but it eventually went in decline in 846-847, probably because of revolts by farmers and shepherds.

Tibet eventually came under control by Khublai Khan around 1252, who founded the Yuan Dynasty and was crowned emperor of China. But the Yuan Dynasty can be considered as a Chinese dynasty; not really in terms of its origins but from Khublai Khan onwards accepted alot of elements that can be identified as Chinese court culture, administrative practice, philosophy (Confucianism) etc. The Yuan were eventually sinified. In other words they became 'Chinese'.

The Qing rulers also came from the borderlands (Manchuria) - does that make automatically their dynasty less 'Chinese' than others? If China claims these borderlands, can we locally marginalise them in terms of their contributions to 'Chinese identities'? The Qing were eventually sinified as well.

And this may not have much to do with the current subject but I have been thinking about the '1.2 milion deaths' the Dalai Lama keeps attributing to the Chinese invasion and repression of Tibet.

Patrick French - who was a loyal director of the Free Tibet movement in London for decades - was perhaps the only Western historian who was allowed to look into the archives of the Tibetan government and he found absolutely no proof of such allegations. French joined American historian Warren W. Smith. He and French conducted a demographic research and came to the conclusion that there were around 200.000 victims in Central Tibet and as much as in the provinces of Qinghai, Sichuan and Gansu which amounts to a total of 500.000. But he attributes the latter to the famine during the Great Leap forward in China which possibly caused 30 to 40 milion deaths.

Since the 70's the Dalai Lama laid down his arms and he speaks only of peaceful resistance agains the Chinese. But not all Tibetans followed him with this. The Cultural Revolution was both a disaster for China and Tibet: alot of demolitions were wrought on Tibetan temples and monasteries, Buddhist texts were burned and monks and nuns were severely beaten.

Much of it has been rebuilt in the 80's with approximately 1700 of the 2500 temples being restored and in March 2008 riots took place. Tibetans attacked Han-Chinese and Hui muslims, killing around 22 with the entire muslim quarter destroyed.

But some myths and legends of Tibet have been pierced through such as the popular image that Tibet has always been a Shangri-La, a haven of peace. Infact it was far from that; times in Tibet were sometimes very cruel long before the Chinese invasion. Tibetan monasteries were often fortresses, from where wars were waged against different orders. More monasteries have been destroyed during the course of that violent history than the Chinese did. But we probably won't ever know the entire truth about Tibet.

 

[hoangsa]

How you feel/believe doesn't count for anything -- you are just a random poor vietnamese who doesn't have a real life. You should talk these to your dad/mum, probably they are the only people who care about what you think/talk.

Personal attack ? ha..ha..

It seems I have talked just right the ugly black side of this nation. Poor you guy !

 

[viking02]

Fortunelately, I found another piece of Tibet history.

The Chinese History of Tibet
Tibet has been part of China since the Yuan dynasty (1271-1368). Centuries ago Mongol and Manchu Emperors ruled or influenced large parts of Asia. During the Tang period (618-907), the Tibetan King, Songsten Gampo, married Princess Wen Cheng. The Princess is thought to have had alot of influence in Tibet. During the Yuan dynasty (1271-1368), Tibet was part of the Mongol Empire which was under Yuan rule. At this time, the Yuan Government implemented residence registration, levied taxes, and imposed corvee duties in Tibet. China's "White Paper" claims that the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) "replaced the Yuan dynasty in China and inherited the right to rule Tibet." During the Manchu rule (1644-1911), the Qing army on a number of occasions entered Tibet to protect it. Finally, in 1951, China and the Tibetan Local Government signed a 17-point agreement concerning the peaceful liberation of Tibet. During this time, The 14th Dalai Lama supported this liberation and acknowledged Tibet is one part of China.

The Tibetan History of Tibet
Tibet has a recorded history of statehood extending back to 127 B.C. In the seventh to ninth centuries, the Tibetans often bested the Tang dynasty in battle. Additionally, during this dynasty, the marriage of Princess Wen Cheng and King Gampo was viewed as a strategic move to achieve cooperation and peace between Tibet and China. In 821, after centuries of periodic fighting, China and Tibet signed a treaty where boundaries were confirmed, and each country promised respect for the other's territorial sovereignty. During the Yuan dynasty (1271-1368), the Mongol leader, Genghis Khan, conquered most of Eurasia including China. Thus, instead of China claiming a right to Tibet, Mongolia could assert claim to both China and Tibet. There is no historic evidence to support the assumption that the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) ruled Tibet. In fact, the Qing Emperor in 1652 not only accepted The Fifth Dalai Lama as a leader of an independent state, the Emperor also treated Him as a Divinity on Earth. During this period, Tibet was known in Chinese as Wu-si Zang or Wu-si Guo (guo meaning country). During the Manchu rule (1644-1911), the Qing army was asked by Tibetans to settle disputes. But, this does not support China's right to Tibet. If it did, then the U.S.A. should claim Kuwait and Haiti since it assisted these countries. In fact, on a number of occasions, Tibet exercised power over China, suggesting that perhaps Tibet should claim China! At the time of China's invasion in 1949, Tibet possessed all the attributes of an independent country recognized by international law, including a defined territory, a government, tax system, unique currency, unique postal system and stamps, army, and the ability to carryout international relations. Two years later, the 17-point agreement was imposed on the Tibetan Government by the threat of arms after 40,000 PLA troops had already seized Tibetºs eastern provincial capital, Chamdo. The Tibetan delegates were threatened. The seal of the Tibetan Government was forged by Peking. In Tibet, The 14th Dalai Lama could not freely express His disapproval. However, soon after arriving in India, He repudiated this Agreement stating it was "thrust upon the Tibetan Government and people by the threat of arms." If Tibet had always been a part of China, why was there a need for the 17-point agreement? Finally, the Atlas of Chinese History Maps (published by Chinese Social Science Institute in Beijing) depicts Tibet as an independent country that was never part of China at least before 1280.

(For more)

I think that's all for Tibet. Everything has become clear.
Tibet had been an independent nation before being invaded and annexed by China in 1949. Moreover like usual Chinese ways, it destroyed Tibet culture and try to massacre Tibetans - a war crime. This is the big difference to other countries.
Thanks!

 

[gpit]

And could you tell me when was about this Tibetan map?

I heard that Chinese army marched into Tibet in 1950s and conquerred this nation? Is that right?

But you choose to be selectively blind about this map of Qing Dynasty (before PRC):

And you choose to be selectively dumb about “Seventeen Point Agreement for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet”
Seventeen Point Agreement for the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Tibet Local Government as well as the ecclesiastic and secular people unanimously support this agreement, and under the leadership of Chairman Mao and the Central People's Government, will actively support the People's Liberation Army in Tibet to consolidate national defence, drive out imperialist influences from Tibet and safeguard the unification of the territory and the sovereignty of the Motherland.

I think that's all for Tibet. Everything has become clear.
Tibet had been an independent nation before being invaded and annexed by China in 1949. Moreover like usual Chinese ways, it destroyed Tibet culture and try to massacre Tibetans - a war crime. This is the big difference to other countries.
Thanks!

Rather, it is clear about your ignorance, foolishness and your anti-China guts!

 

[Xi'an_ist]

I think that's all for Tibet. Everything has become clear.
Tibet had been an independent nation before being invaded and annexed by China in 1949. Moreover like usual Chinese ways, it destroyed Tibet culture and try to massacre Tibetans - a war crime. This is the big difference to other countries.
Thanks!

Read the first paragraphs of my post. The history of Tibet is more complex than what most people in the West think.