History of Pakistan Air Force

[Wingman]

Sir Murad!!!

Please get some information and write in DF about " Diamond 9"(Sabres) .."Red Dragons"(Sabres)..." Ratellers(F-6's)

 

[Hasnain2009]

PAF Sight

 

[Hasnain2009]

What the world thinks of PAF​

Indian resources have naturally refuted and denied PAF air superiority over the FIVE times larger IAF in the 65 and 71 wars. Indian and Pakistani claims and counter claims are pointless on this subject as they tend to be biased and blurred with nationalism. The only way to assess this is through the neutral and qualified international opinion, which has now become aviation history. Check out autobiography of Gen. Chuck Yeagers (yes, the one who broke the sound barrier), who 'refereed' the 1971 war and flew up and down the region collecting wreckage of IAF aircraft shot down by the PAF. Here is what he says, "the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio knocking out 102 Indian jets and losing 34 of their own. I am certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks, documented them by serial numbers, identified the components such as engines and rocket pods" Now he is not exactly a Pakistani, is he?


Check out the following world reputed aviation journals.

USA - Aviation week & space technology - December 1968 issue. ​

"For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.

UK - Air International - November - 1991​

" the average PAF pilot is almost certainly possessed of superior skills when compared with, say, an average American pilot. As to those who are rated above average, they compare favourably to the very best "

Encyclopaedia of Aircraft printed in several countries by Orbis publications - Volume 5​

"Pakistan's air force gained a remarkable victory over India in this brief 22 day war exploiting its opponents weaknesses in exemplary style - Deeply shaken by reverse, India began an extensive modernisation and training program, meanwhile covering its defeat with effective propaganda smoke screen.

If you feel more at ease with German and French, then also checkout the followings​

Air Action (France) December 1988 and January 1989
Flugzeug (Germany) February (2) 1989


In addition to this, PAF put on show for inspection, its entire fleets after BOTH of the wars in presence of world dignitaries and aviation community. The five times bigger IAF should have annihilated the tiny PAF to prevent such displays!!!!!!
Now these are FACTS - what rides on a wave of nationalism is just fiction.

Mabaig.co.uk

 

[SQ8]

URGENT
Looking for serial numbers of PAF Mirage's operational in the 1971 war

 

[Muradk]

URGENT
Looking for serial numbers of PAF Mirage's operational in the 1971 war

Urgent what you want to buy them

These were between 1967 to 1970 under Project Blue Flash 1 and 2 3 came a little later.
101 to 118
301, 302, 303
201, 202, 203
304 305
401 to 428


If My memory serves me right we shot 5 IAF fighters from our Mirages in 1971.

 

[SQ8]

Thank you sir.. here is one of your birds...(prototype) in the video game i am working on..
I would appreciate If I could get accounts of missions that are declassified which were carried out by your squadron.
I would use it to help build an accurate campaign of the Indo-Pak Air war of 71

 

[Muradk]

Thank you sir.. here is one of your birds...(prototype) in the video game i am working on..
I would appreciate If I could get accounts of missions that are declassified which were carried out by your squadron.
I would use it to help build an accurate campaign of the Indo-Pak Air war of 71

OK I will tell you some I know a few Chaps who did some missions which were totally just crazy I mean off the charts leaving the IAF saying what the F--k just happend if you can deliver what you say I promise to put your stuff in 9 SQD and AHQ with your name.

 

[paritosh]

in response to Hasnain 2009....
in 1965 you had the best plane of that era..the F-104 and were up against the gnats...
"Overall, the war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy--on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan."
source...
Indo-Pakistan War of 1965

 

[Muradk]

in response to Hasnain 2009....
in 1965 you had the best plane of that era..the F-104 and were up against the gnats...
"Overall, the war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy--on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan."
source...
Indo-Pakistan War of 1965

So what are you trying to say ?

ok let me give you a real fact India is 5 times bigger than us they can walk over Pakistan with no problems but they don't have the balls to do it. On the other hand we being a smaller country have shown you that what we are capable off and we have the balls to prove it. If your fighters would have invaded PAK airspace during musharaf era your Mirage2000 ans SU 30 would have been in the middle of gulshan-a-Iqbal Lhr.

 

[paritosh]

hmmm...
it's very important what we believe in...now you are more experienced in life than me sir...so you'd agree...
we in india...like to believe whatever you just said...about the five times bigger and defeating pakistan being a cake-walk...and yes sir our testosterone oozes from the same two glands...but that is all hogwash...i think i can differentiate the real $hit from the state propaganda...
you in pakistan...know that thy enemy is 5 times large...IAf 3 times PAF...IA 2 times PA...et etc...plain numbers would trouble any pak analyst...so we hear things like a pakistani =2 indians...pakistani pilots better than iAf pilots...
indian missiles are all trash...and in the event of a war...ghauri would rip india into two...while the indians would fail to launch their defunct missiles...
there is another interesting thing that i've heard...that pakistanis are more 'eager' to give up life....and that indians are 'lalas' who cant fight at all....
all of what i've mentioned is state propaganda....i have never disagreed that the PAF is not good enough for the IAf(merely in terms of skill)...but just that there is no racial or any other inherent supremacy here...for if you under-estimate an already more powerful enemy...nothing good would come up.

 

[Muradk]

hmmm...
it's very important what we believe in...now you are more experienced in life than me sir...so you'd agree...
we in india...like to believe whatever you just said...about the five times bigger and defeating pakistan being a cake-walk...and yes sir our testosterone oozes from the same two glands...but that is all hogwash...i think i can differentiate the real $hit from the state propaganda...
you in pakistan...know that thy enemy is 5 times large...IAf 3 times PAF...IA 2 times PA...et etc...plain numbers would trouble any pak analyst...so we hear things like a pakistani =2 indians...pakistani pilots better than iAf pilots...
indian missiles are all trash...and in the event of a war...ghauri would rip india into two...while the indians would fail to launch their defunct missiles...
there is another interesting thing that i've heard...that pakistanis are more 'eager' to give up life....and that indians are 'lalas' who cant fight at all....
all of what i've mentioned is state propaganda....i have never disagreed that the PAF is not good enough for the IAf(merely in terms of skill)...but just that there is no racial or any other inherent supremacy here...for if you under-estimate an already more powerful enemy...nothing good would come up.

Friend you are giving me numbers to a person who was part of those numbers we had 45 days of Ammo finished in 11 days your airforce had the same ratio very high what happend. your higher command was baffled in the first 3 days of war how PAF acted. And yes there is a difference between state propaganda and facts, Indians are very good in one thing making and presenting the news to the masses. Hell was in session in Kargil we even short down your planes but your media did a fantastic job of showing that you won.
Funny think was your media kept saying we got tiger hill but kept firing at the hill, I wounder why?

 

[sergente rehan]

The last video about N.16 Sq. reminds me about IAF coward act when they shot down an unarmed PN Atlantique which was flying in it's own air space......really shamefull act for a pro (if they are).

 

[aboutimeee]

self delete

 

[SQ8]

OK I will tell you some I know a few Chaps who did some missions which were totally just crazy I mean off the charts leaving the IAF saying what the F--k just happend if you can deliver what you say I promise to put your stuff in 9 SQD and AHQ with your name.

Thank you for the offer Murad sahab but Im afraid I cant take sole credit for this endeavor.
This is being done as a freelance project on an International level, I joined it in simply because there was an Indian involved and i did not want our air force or country misrepresented.
There are some very skilled people working on this.
the complete terrain of the subcontinent has been recreated,along with the complete ORBAT of the respective airforces,army and navy.
Almost all airbases will be recreated faithfullywith ADA, important monuments such as the Quiads Mazar, Taj Mahal, Lahore Fort have been added. The campaign will be quasi-dynamic.. i.e while the outcome may remain the same, a persons performance may extend or shorten his side's campaign and losses.(i.e if the mirage strike on a railway depot fails..consequently more Indian armour arrives at the front and the front line is pushed back).Actual offenses such as the longewala thrust will be recreated in missions.The first release will document the 65 airwar from both sides, flying either as the PAF or IAF, you may replay MM Alams feat of 4 in a day or fly a hunter to intercept Sarfaraz Rafiqui's flight,Strike fishoil radar or attack Sargodha to shut it down. Some of the work done is worth a mention and I will post some more in-game visuals.
Looking forward to your valuable input.

 

[chindit]

If My memory serves me right we shot 5 IAF fighters from our Mirages in 1971.

5 claims but only three kills .

4-Dec - Canberra by Naeem Atta (Indian Pilot - Sasson, Navigator Advani)
5-Dec - Hunter by Safdar (Indian Pilot Mistry)
6-Dec - Sukhoi-7 by Salimuddin (Indian Pilot V K Wahi)

An off the topic - the religions of the indian pilots were as follows - Jew, Parsi and Hindu respectively. One navigator Advani was a Hindu as well.

All the rest were claims made in the heat of the battle

Source: Kaiser Tufails Web Site and book "Great Battles of the Pakistan Air Force"