Historical Background of Pakistan and its People

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Even Jinnah would have preferred to not have the partition if he had been made the prime-minister.

The issue wasn't primarily one of becoming Prime Minister, but of fair treatment of the Muslim minority and of Muslim rights, which manifested itself in the degree of autonomy for the Muslim majority provinces. The issue of who became Prime Minster was a further manifestation of the concerns over the rights of the Muslim majority areas, in that the election of Jinnah as the first Prime Minister would have put the authority to run the new country in the hands of someone who had campaigned for Muslim rights and therefore would protect them.

To boil a complex situation down to 'clash over who became Prime Minister', an argument that comes across more as a selfish power struggle, is incorrect and unfair to some of the actors involved.

Anyway, back to topic.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

could you tell us more about Dardic people?

Dardic people are Kohistanis, Kashmiris, Kalasha, Shinas etc etc.. These people mostly live in Northern Pakistan and Eastern Afghanistan. I have read somewhere that their origins are shrouded in mystery.. and there is a controversy even on how to classify their languages :-

The Dardic group has traditionally been defined as a sub-group of the Indo-Aryan languages which experienced strong influence from the Nuristani and East Iranian languages. Nuristani, a group of languages spoken in northeast Afghanistan, has sometimes been included in Dardic, but is today generally regarded as an independent group, as one of the three sub-groups of Indo-Iranian, following the studies of Georg Morgenstierne in 1973 to 1975 CE.

There is still some dispute regarding the ultimate classification of the Dardic languages. The very existence of the family has been called into question by some, though the Dardic languages share common features different from Indo-Aryan, such as the so-called Dardic metathesis (karma => krama).

Except for Kashmiri, all of the Dardic languages are small minority languages which have not been sufficiently studied. In many cases they are spoken in areas difficult to access due to mountainous terrain and/or armed conflicts in the region. All of the languages (including Kashmiri) have been historically influenced by more prominent (non-Dardic) neighboring languages.

 

[ADT]

Dardic people are Kohistanis, Kashmiris, Kalasha, Shinas etc etc.. These people mostly live in Northern Pakistan and Eastern Afghanistan. I have read somewhere that their origins are shrouded in mystery.. and there is a controversy even on how to classify their languages :-

The Dardic group has traditionally been defined as a sub-group of the Indo-Aryan languages which experienced strong influence from the Nuristani and East Iranian languages. Nuristani, a group of languages spoken in northeast Afghanistan, has sometimes been included in Dardic, but is today generally regarded as an independent group, as one of the three sub-groups of Indo-Iranian, following the studies of Georg Morgenstierne in 1973 to 1975 CE.

There is still some dispute regarding the ultimate classification of the Dardic languages. The very existence of the family has been called into question by some, though the Dardic languages share common features different from Indo-Aryan, such as the so-called Dardic metathesis (karma => krama).

Except for Kashmiri, all of the Dardic languages are small minority languages which have not been sufficiently studied. In many cases they are spoken in areas difficult to access due to mountainous terrain and/or armed conflicts in the region. All of the languages (including Kashmiri) have been historically influenced by more prominent (non-Dardic) neighboring languages.

Interesting.......

First 3 paragraphs in Wikipedia

Dardic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Curiously, these three paragraphs have no source linked to these statements.

 

[rangbaaz]

now who's after jinxeD_girl this time

poor girl

 

[jinxeD_girl]

http://img121.imageshack.us/i/330201053121pm.png/

PHEW!! much much better!! Sometimes you really have to use the ignore button!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

http://img121.imageshack.us/i/330201053121pm.png/

PHEW!! much much better!! Sometimes you really have to use the ignore button!!

I am glad you FINALLY figured that out instead of letting people bait you into responding. And the best thing is, there is no limit on how many people you can put on that list, so just keep adding, instead of responding.

 

[ADT]

I am glad you FINALLY figured that out instead of letting people bait you into responding. And the best thing is, there is no limit on how many people you can put on that list, so just keep adding, instead of responding.

This is great and all but perhaps you should stop deleting my posts if you do not want to spread misinformation around and members of this board should be aware of what they are reading.

Unless of course you want believe everything you read/hear and want to run with the crowd and clout the mind of the members of this board.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

I am glad you FINALLY figured that out instead of letting people bait you into responding. And the best thing is, there is no limit on how many people you can put on that list, so just keep adding, instead of responding.

Yeah I know, it was Zaki who showed me how.. and thanks for allowing this feature.. I didn't even know it exist!!

Coming back to Dardic people ..

Kohistanis

http://img32.imageshack.us/i/kohistanis.jpg/


Kalasha

http://img232.imageshack.us/i/kalashaladywithherbabie.jpg/

Nuristanis who are sometimes classified as Dard people

http://img32.imageshack.us/i/nuristanis.jpg/

 

[jinxeD_girl]

If someone is more interested in Dard people please read this Book ... I don't have time to Scan and OCR pages from this book ...

Amazon.com: Dard people: Afghanistan, Jammu and Kashmir, Gilgit- Baltistan, North- West Frontier Province, Herodotus, Demographics of Pakistan, Indo- Iranians, Indo- Aryan peoples, Iranian peoples (9786130225254): Frederic P. Miller, Agnes F. Vandome

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This is great and all but perhaps you should stop deleting my posts if you do not want to spread misinformation around and members of this board should be aware of what they are reading.

Unless of course you want believe everything you read/hear and want to run with the crowd and clout the mind of the members of this board.

I have no problem with you pointing out that the quotes were from WIKI, but you did that once, and there was no reason to provide an entire essay on why Wiki is unreliable.

Beyond that I have been deleting your and others posts because they are essentially bickering and personal attacks instead of discussions on any particular topic.

If you disagree with a comment, provide the opposite view, with sources and links you consider to validate it, instead of insulting the individual and dragging in extraneous issues such as posts from another thread to justify your opinion about the mindset of a particular poster.

The member is not the subject of discussion, so stop focusing on the members.

 

[dolphin]

Regarding Farci, it is a very important language of Pakistan (since the four provinces of Pakistan speak derivatives of the Persian language and was banned in the 1850s when the British arrived to divide and conquer.

The Persian Language: (The following is a reference from the book Modern Persian by Narguess Farzad)

Until recent centuries, Persian was culturally and historically one of the most prominent languages of the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent. Persian is the second language of Islam and was instrumental in the spread of the faith during the reign of the Moguls in the Indian subcontinent. For example, it was an important language during the reign of Moguls in India, where knowledge of Persian was cultivated and held in high esteem. To a lesser extent it was instrumental in bringing the Arabic script, known as Jawi, to Malaysia. Jawi is less commonly used and a Romanized Malay writing script has gained more of an official status. However Jawi is written in the Perso-Arabic script. The use of Persian in the courts of Mogul rulers ended in 1837 when it was banned by officials of the East India Company, but not before the development of a Persian-Indian vernacular. Persian poetry is still a significant part of the literature if the Indo-Pakistani subcontinent.

Very close links between Persian and Urdu, and the presence of numerous Persian words in Turkish, offer a high degree of mutual intelligibility to speaker of these languages and the study of the Ottoman Turkish literature without knowledge of Persian would be meaningless. Malay also contains countless Persian words and for scholars of Malay literature a classical Persian dictionary of often among their most used reference books.

If you are interested in learning other modern Iranian languages, such as Baluchi or Kurdish, knowledge of Persian and the Perso-Arabic script helps. For example, all the languages in the following list are written in this script or were written in it until very recently:

Assyrian, Southern Azeri spoken by 20 million people in Iran, Hausa (gradually superseded by Romanized script), Kashmiri, Punjabi of Pakistan, Pashtu, Sindhi and Uyghur.
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[dolphin]

I love you all for responding and don't have any grudges against any members- let's all be kind people!

 

[KeenGuy]

Regarding Farci, it is a very important language of Pakistan (since the four provinces of Pakistan speak derivatives of the Persian language and was banned in the 1850s when the British arrived to divide and conquer.

Farci is not an important language of Pakistan, (although I would like to learn so I can talk to their hot girls ) Urdu is. And if we are to learn any language besides Urdu and English it should be Arabic.

Because:

1.) It is what Prophet Muhammad was spoken to and what he spoke.
2.) Qur'an is written in it
3.) When Arabs talk crap to us we know what they are saying and we can kick ***

The importance of Farci is just as important as Hindi is Pakistan...hehe.

 

[dolphin]

Farci is not an important language of Pakistan, (although I would like to learn so I can talk to their hot girls ) Urdu is. And if we are to learn any language besides Urdu and English it should be Arabic.

Because:

1.) It is what Prophet Muhammad was spoken to and what he spoke.
2.) Qur'an is written in it
3.) When Arabs talk crap to us we know what they are saying and we can kick ***

The importance of Farci is just as important as Hindi is Pakistan...hehe.

In terms of Islamic knowledge it would be better to gain an adequate understanding of classical Farci considering the Islamic Renaissance period began in Persia, and thereof many classical renowned Islamic scholars were either from Persia, some of whom eventually travelled to North Africa and Turkey to spread Islamic teachings and across other part of neighbouring Persia. In fact, much of Islamic literature written by such scholars are in Farci (as well as arabic) and many have yet to be translated and studied in-depth, there are also many treatises which are yet to be understood- the twelve famous scholars are:

- Jaber Ibn Haiyan (Geber)
-Ali Ibn Rabban Al-Tabari - Medicine, Mathematics, Calligraphy - (838-870)
-Al-Razi (Rhazes) - Medicine, Ophthalmology, Smallpox , Chemistry, Astronomy - (864-930)
-Al-Farabi (Al Pharabius) - Sociology, Logic, Philosophy, Political Science, Music -(870-950)
-Abu Al-Qasim Al-Zahravi (Albucasis) - Surgery, Medicine - (936-1013)
-Muhammad Al-Buzjani - Mathematics, Astronomy - (940-997)
-Ibn Al-Haitham (Alhazen) - Physics,Optics, Mathematics - (965-1040)
-Abu Raihan Al-Biruni - Astronomy, Mathematics, determined Earth's circumference - (973-1048)
-Ibn Sina (Avicenna) - Medicine, Philosophy, Mathematics, Astronomy - (986-1037)
-Omar Al-Khayyam - Mathematics, Poetry - (1044-1123)
-Nasir Al-Din Al-Tusi - Astronomy, Non-Euclidean Geometry - (1201-1274)
-Ibn Al-Nafis Damishqui - Medicine - (1213-1288)

And ofcourse Classical arabic is a vital language for us muslims!

 

[jinxeD_girl]

I love you all for responding and don't have any grudges against any members- let's all be kind people!

yeah it was just a misunderstanding.. I hope it is all over!!