Historical Background of Pakistan and its People

[Pakistanii]

Pakistan has great history! but our politician, establishment and ourselves giving bad name to Pakistan. May Allah Forgive us and show us right path

 

[dolphin]

Hi all,

This I believe is a rather controversial area and has always been on my mind. I've been born and brought up in the UK and I always come across westerners and particularly Pakistani's themselves associating their cultural dogma (which is in fact of indian origins and since they are ignorant of their own Pakistani culture)like to associate themselves to Indians. They are tremendously ignorant!

Well when westerners approach me with such comments I always provide them with a brief history of Pakistan which goes back several hundred years. It just irritates me that many Pakistani's are not aware of Pakistan's true history and that many of us are infact of central asian, russian, european, persian or arabic descents believe it or not. Well if you don't believe me go for a DNA test and you'd discover your true lineage.

Therefore, at this day and age when we have established our own internationally recognized state, why don't we practise our true culture such as considering the national language to be Persian (Farci)? Since more than half the population can understand Farci and are of persian descents? I don't personally have anything against Urdu but i'd like to understand why not farci? Even majority of the works of the great poet of Pakistan Allama Iqbal has his literature in Farci.

Another issue I do not understand is why do Pakistanis particualrly those from the Punjab regions still practise Indian traditions? Are they of Indian descents? I'm certain majority of them are not!

I apologise if my comments may seem ignorant to you but I wish to understand from other individuals perspectives rather than my own.

Share your thoughts!

 

[Peshwa]

^^^^ Bud you need to speak to JinxeD Girl....Its a match made in heaven....

Anyways...I dont know the answers to the above...but I pointed you in the direction of one who would know.....

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Hi all,

This I believe is a rather controversial area and has always been on my mind. I've been born and brought up in the UK and I always come across westerners and particularly Pakistani's themselves associating their cultural dogma (which is in fact of indian origins and since they are ignorant of their own Pakistani culture)like to associate themselves to Indians. They are tremendously ignorant!

Well when westerners approach me with such comments I always provide them with a brief history of Pakistan which goes back several hundred years. It just irritates me that many Pakistani's are not aware of Pakistan's true history and that many of us are infact of central asian, russian, european, persian or arabic descents believe it or not. Well if you don't believe me go for a DNA test and you'd discover your true lineage.

Therefore, at this day and age when we have established our own internationally recognized state, why don't we practise our true culture such as considering the national language to be Persian (Farci)? Since more than half the population can understand Farci and are of persian descents? I don't personally have anything against Urdu but i'd like to understand why not farci? Even majority of the works of the great poet of Pakistan Allama Iqbal has his literature in Farci.

Another issue I do not understand is why do Pakistanis particualrly those from the Punjab regions still practise Indian traditions? Are they of Indian descents? I'm certain majority of them are not!

I apologise if my comments may seem ignorant to you but I wish to understand from other individuals perspectives rather than my own.

Share your thoughts!

Nice job Indian hiding behind a Pakistani ID and starting a sarcastic post and sticking some subtle insults in...

 

[sparklingway]

Hi all,

This I believe is a rather controversial area and has always been on my mind. I've been born and brought up in the UK and I always come across westerners and particularly Pakistani's themselves associating their cultural dogma (which is in fact of indian origins and since they are ignorant of their own Pakistani culture)like to associate themselves to Indians. They are tremendously ignorant!

Well when westerners approach me with such comments I always provide them with a brief history of Pakistan which goes back several hundred years. It just irritates me that many Pakistani's are not aware of Pakistan's true history and that many of us are infact of central asian, russian, european, persian or arabic descents believe it or not. Well if you don't believe me go for a DNA test and you'd discover your true lineage.

This topic has been beaten to death in these forums.

Since more than half the population can understand Farci and are of persian descents

You serious or are you just joking? If you're serious, then your crazy to say the least. Urdu being highly influenced and sharing words and structure with Farsi is one thing and understanding is a completely different thing.

Farsi : Iranian language of the Indo Iranian branch of the Indo European languages

Urdu : Central Indo Aryan language language of the Indo Iranian branch of the Indo European languages





Before reading the next sentence, come out of any myopic and/or prejudiced mindset:-

Standardized Hindi and Urdu are very much alike, so much that their differences are not enough for linguists to classify them as entirely different languages. They are considered dialects of a common language referred to as Hindustani language. Even when they are written in different scrips (Nastaliq as opposed to Devanagari), and have differences in phonetics, they are still considered dialects of a common language by linguists.

Persian influenced Urdu poetry widely but Urdu and Persian are very much different and not considered dialects of a common language.

Gopi Chand Narang, awarded Iqbal Centennary Gold Medal by the GoP and Padma Bhushan and Padma Shri by GoI for his contributions to Urdu had the following to say:-

"Associating Urdu with the Muslims in India is part of a political conspiracy against this composite language which was born out of a cultural interaction between the Hindus and the Muslims. The communalization of Urdu is part of its politicization which has occurred in the last half century. In fact, it is part of the hangover of the two nation theory which stands discredited by historical events in the subcontinent.

"Nevertheless narrow minded politicians on both sides of the border unwittingly subscribe to it. Pakistan is a nascent nation. Naturally it needs a language and a cultural core which it may call its own. The bigger problem lies in India where presently Urdu's association with the Muslim minority is exploited as a vote bank. In India, I have yet to come across a leader of a political party, left or right, who does not praise Urdu for its charm and elegance, yet these leaders are indifferent to its linguistic rights".

The language dispute only went to show the lack of objectivity among the populations, both of whom sought to dominate each other at the fall of the Mughal Empire. If Canada can adopt French and English in parallel, the lack of such an agreement in British India only highlighted the irrationality of the population.

The Urdu-Hindi struggle has forced our historians (read state historians who distort history for political purposes) to present Urdu as a symbol of Hindu-Muslim differences and somehow a factor contributing to demand for Independence. The controversy has been settled, in all practical purposes by the GoI and the widescale adoption and general understanding (read unfamiliarity with Persian/Nastaliq script) of Devanagari script has coerced Urdu scholars in India so much so, that they have adopted Devanagari for Urdu publications as well (some magazines are published this way).

Another issue I do not understand is why do Pakistanis particualrly those from the Punjab regions still practise Indian traditions? Are they of Indian descents? I'm certain majority of them are not!

You can have reservations on cultural practices that are in direct and utter conflict with Islamic values but any non religious tradition should have no objection. The way in which mullahs have grabbed and distorted history is visible by the fact that Basant is somehow presented to be a "Hindu" event and stories of o the origins of Basant are conjured from thin air. You can hear every tom, dick and harry telling that either Basant originated from massacre of Muslims in Andlusian Spain or Sikhs killing Muslims in Kashmir in the early 17th century. Across Africa, Muslims have not rejected traditional mythical practices and continue to live in relative peace and harmony with other religious communities. Somehow Hindus and Muslims did not fight bitterly for a long long period (small instances and exceptions do not count), but the fundo mullah of today in Pakistan has created a new intolerant brand of religion that advocates utter rejection of any existing cultural practices and animosity towards all other communities. If the Muslims living throughout the Indian subcontinent did not have any major objections in celebrating such practices throughout centuries, why should their be objections now? Were those muslims somehow inferior ones and today's muslims of Pakistan somehow the "real" muslims?

As I said, practices in direct violation of religious beliefs should be discourages (but practitioners not be termed "kafir" for god's sake) but other common traditions should have no objections.

It just irritates me that many Pakistani's are not aware of Pakistan's true history and that many of us are infact of central asian, russian, european, persian or arabic descents believe it or not. Well if you don't believe me go for a DNA test and you'd discover your true lineage.

Celebrating the diversity of our existence is somehow unacceptable to many people. There is no point in trying to identify ourselves as distinct people. We are diverse within the boundaries of pakistan as well. The Balochs have a distinct ancetry as compared to the Punjabis, Sindhis are different from Pathans, Sheedis are different from the Kalash people. Indian is one of the most ethnically and linguistically diverse places on Earth. We are diverse people. We came from diverse backgrounds. Trying to force a cohesive religious-nationalistic ideology was the way the state found was neccessary to gather people against a common enemy. There is no need for identifying ourselves as distinct, for we know we are.

 

[sparklingway]

Nice job Indian hiding behind a Pakistani ID and starting a sarcastic post and sticking some subtle insults in...

I did not consider that.

 

[TheEnrichedOne]

Hi all,

This I believe is a rather controversial area and has always been on my mind. I've been born and brought up in the UK and I always come across westerners and particularly Pakistani's themselves associating their cultural dogma (which is in fact of indian origins and since they are ignorant of their own Pakistani culture)like to associate themselves to Indians. They are tremendously ignorant!

Well when westerners approach me with such comments I always provide them with a brief history of Pakistan which goes back several hundred years. It just irritates me that many Pakistani's are not aware of Pakistan's true history and that many of us are infact of central asian, russian, european, persian or arabic descents believe it or not. Well if you don't believe me go for a DNA test and you'd discover your true lineage.

Therefore, at this day and age when we have established our own internationally recognized state, why don't we practise our true culture such as considering the national language to be Persian (Farci)? Since more than half the population can understand Farci and are of persian descents? I don't personally have anything against Urdu but i'd like to understand why not farci? Even majority of the works of the great poet of Pakistan Allama Iqbal has his literature in Farci.

Another issue I do not understand is why do Pakistanis particualrly those from the Punjab regions still practise Indian traditions? Are they of Indian descents? I'm certain majority of them are not!

I apologise if my comments may seem ignorant to you but I wish to understand from other individuals perspectives rather than my own.

Share your thoughts!

 

[dolphin]

Nice job Indian hiding behind a Pakistani ID and starting a sarcastic post and sticking some subtle insults in...

Thats pathetic of you to make such an ignorant comment. Wallaahi i'm pakistani not indian..........how could you possibly mistake me? Is it due to my criticisms towards Pak's? I'm not, i'm just pointing out simple facts actually!

Well i'm going to respond to everyone's posts tomorrow as its 4 am and i need to get some sleep

 

[Omar1984]

Thats pathetic of you to make such an ignorant comment. Wallaahi i'm pakistani not indian..........how could you possibly mistake me? Is it due to my criticisms towards Pak's? I'm not, i'm just pointing out simple facts actually!

Well i'm going to respond to everyone's posts tomorrow as its 4 am and i need to get some sleep

We'll be keeping a close eye on your posts. We had lots of indians pretending to be Pakistani behind the Pakistani flag before, it wouldn't be a surprise if you are a bharati pretending to be Pakistani.

 

[dolphin]

When i suggested Farci, i was using it as en example as I am aware that Pakistan is from a diverse ethnic background if you bothered to read all my most regarding the lineages majority of Pakistanis have descended from.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Thats pathetic of you to make such an ignorant comment. Wallaahi i'm pakistani not indian..........how could you possibly mistake me? Is it due to my criticisms towards Pak's? I'm not, i'm just pointing out simple facts actually!

Well i'm going to respond to everyone's posts tomorrow as its 4 am and i need to get some sleep

Anyone with a little common sense can tell that your post was a sarcastic pleasure to mock Pakistanis..

 

[dolphin]

We'll be keeping a close eye on your posts. We had lots of indians pretending to be Pakistani behind the Pakistani flag before, it wouldn't be a surprise if you are a bharati pretending to be Pakistani.

Well i will definitely respond more in-depth tomorrow regarding my thoughts and feelings on this issue. If you tried to understand my post, you may recognise that personally I am not content with Pakistani's following the trashy indian culture such as watching their movies and so forth as well as following their traditional dogmas as I seen in the UK (whom refer to it as the practises back home) which you may not be aware of greater than I am since I reside here.

Also i'm ignorant to understanding the way of life (to some extent) in Pakistan and whether they have the similalr attitudes there. I've always accepted Pakistanis from Baloch, Sindh, Wazaristan, Punjab and the northern areas unfortunately the Pakistani government does not provide these areas with enough social/economic support which is why i'd like to raise the issue of why Punjabs are considered more important in relation with all the other ethnicities within Pakistan or is that since the government is corrupt?

And is this the sole purpose as to why there is a rapid growth of tribal areas across Pakistan becoming anti-gov and thus anti-military as a result (whilst being brainwashed by the influx of Taliban and fundamentalists arriving into the NWF and westerns regions)???? I'm referring here to the tribal regions that have developed fundamental ideas at present.

 

[dolphin]

Anyone with a little common sense can tell that your post was a sarcastic pleasure to mock Pakistanis..

Yes thats since your ignorant and narrow-minded if you were aware of the current affairs and bothered reading some lierature about Pakistan you would understand what i'm discussing! RATHER THAN YOU CONTINUOUSLY LABELLING ME AS INDIAN AND NOT EVEN BOTHERING TO PARTAKE IN THE DISCUSSION

Read Three cups of Tea by Greg Mortenson....thats was a cool read indeed! It doesn't have anything strongly associated with current affairs in Pak but you may understand some of the issues covered within this book and within the press at the moment. Go read some newspapers too whilst your at it!

 

[ajpirzada]

apparently we are culturally similar but u will notice a big difference if you live with these two communities.
to tell you wat i mean let me say it again. visiting pakistan and visiting india is almost the same thing in cultural aspect but living in pakistan and living in india is completely different again in every aspect.

though i havent lived in india, but where i live here in UK i have more (not many) indians around me than pakistanis and i can feel the difference.

about the language well ......... hahahahaha. when did farci became our language. Urdu is mostly the language of muslims of indian sub continent. and from wat i remember it was indian sub continent which was divided into two states now called india and pakistan. also majority of pakistanis are not of any persian haritage. pashtuns, punjabis, balochis, shindhis, and others have been here since centuries. ull find people with arab and other linage but they have also been here for more than 500 yrs and are now very much people of indian sub continent.

 

[jinxeD_girl]

Pakistan's true history and that many of us are infact of central asian, russian, european, persian or arabic descents believe it or not. Well if you don't believe me go for a DNA test and you'd discover your true lineage.

Can you tell me which Pakistanis are of Russian and European descents? Are you talking of Kalashas (Chitralis) ? They do have Greek admixture but they only range somewhere between 5,000-6,000.

Since more than half the population can understand Farci and are of persian descents? I don't personally have anything against Urdu but i'd like to understand why not farci? Even majority of the works of the great poet of Pakistan Allama Iqbal has his literature in Farci.

Any Pakistani whether living abroad or in Pakistan knows that more than half of the population of Pakistan DON'T understand Farsi. Indigenous Pakistani Tajiks or Farsiwans who speak Farsi are a small minority. It is true that Iranic languages (Pashto, Balochi etc) are spoken by 35-40% Pakistanis.. but Farsi itself isnt spoken by majority..