Hindu Ramayana and Islam (Allah) in a religious text!

[Sliver]

Apologies if this is a wrong place for the thread but I thought this is something very very interesting - members who have knowledge on this please throw some light on this.

I was researching the Hindu epics and went to Wikipedia for some perspective on variations of that epic ( I will be speaking at a catholic congregation on comparative religions).

I found the following in Wiki :

In Hikayat Seri Rama of Malaysia, Dasharatha is the great-grandson of the Prophet Adam. Ravana receives boons from Allah instead of Brahma. In many Malay language versions, Lakshmana is given greater importance than Rama, whose character is considered somewhat weak.

I am searching for the approximate date of when this variation on Ramayana was written or what its importance is to the local malay community - how does this affect their religion - are they Muslims with Hindu concepts or Hindu with Muslim concepts.. Lots of questions.. but nevertheless, this is a very interesting way to look at the "merging" of the greatest Religions - Abrahamic and Eastern Hindu religion!

 

[StingRoy]

Sliver... if you are researching Ramayana then read the Indian version of Ramayana... better refer to this link below:
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/
The era when Ramayana was written was way before Islam was born.

 

[*Awan*]

Hi
Basically origin of all religions are same.According to hadith of Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) Allah send nearly one lakh and 24 thousand messengers and prophets for the guidance of humanity having one mission that there is no god but Allah.But with the passage of time true religion is infiltrated by man made religion.
Christianity:Saint paul and roman empire
Judism:civilization of babylon and greek.
and similar is the case with hinduism.

 

[Hindutvadi]

Hi
Basically origin of all religions are same.According to hadith of Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) Allah send nearly one lakh and 24 thousand messengers and prophets for the guidance of humanity having one mission that there is no god but Allah.But with the passage of time true religion is infiltrated by man made religion.
Christianity:Saint paul and roman empire
Judism:civilization of babylon and greek.
and similar is the case with hinduism.

Nice..but if u say \"Allah\" does it literally mean one entity or god in general?

 

[sensenreason]

Hi
Basically origin of all religions are same.According to hadith of Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w) Allah send nearly one lakh and 24 thousand messengers and prophets for the guidance of humanity having one mission that there is no god but Allah.But with the passage of time true religion is infiltrated by man made religion.
Christianity:Saint paul and roman empire
Judism:civilization of babylon and greek.
and similar is the case with hinduism.

Im a sceptic if not atheist and find all religions have more similarities in their rituals and stories and takeaways. However, all of them start with the premise that 'their' religion is the 'real' thing and this is a matter of faith.Its not good when religions run down the faith or genuinessness of other faiths...so in other words all religions are same and no one has right to call the other a believer or a non-believer.

 

[Hindutvadi]

Apologies if this is a wrong place for the thread but I thought this is something very very interesting - members who have knowledge on this please throw some light on this.

I was researching the Hindu epics and went to Wikipedia for some perspective on variations of that epic ( I will be speaking at a catholic congregation on comparative religions).

I found the following in Wiki :


I am searching for the approximate date of when this variation on Ramayana was written or what its importance is to the local malay community - how does this affect their religion - are they Muslims with Hindu concepts or Hindu with Muslim concepts.. Lots of questions.. but nevertheless, this is a very interesting way to look at the \\\"merging\\\" of the greatest Religions - Abrahamic and Eastern Hindu religion!

Hikayat Seri Rama is the Malay literary adaptation of the Hindu Ramayana epic. The main story remains the same as the original Sanskrit version but some aspects of it were slightly modified to a local context such as the spelling and pronunciation of names. Numerous branch stories had also been developed as accretions to or extensions of this epic with the upgrading of minor characters to major ones, or the invention of totally new characters. For example, Malay writers and storytellers have produced variations in which Laksmana (Lakshman) plays a larger role, sometimes becoming more important than Rama the elder prince much like the Lao Phra Lak Phra Lam. Rama, although righteous and virtuous, was perceived to be weak and his character is often moved to the background while the younger Laksmana is admired for his courage and willingness to react decisively.
This is the first para of wiki which speaks for itself
On a lighter note,Im amazed that they have not named it lakshmanayan

 

[cybertron]

silver...i believe this might be a case of the malays adopting hinduism and adopting their on version through generations.
otherwise hinduism orginated way way way before islam and epic valmiki ramayana was written way b4 islam was created.
so any further variations would be modifications on it.
RAM is among the main avatars of lord vishnu and was about whom 'ram'ayana was written.

 

[roach]

Very interesting, I did not know this.

I am currently reading an excellent translation of the Bhagvad Gita, and have been surprised to find what it has to say. It actually discourages Idol worship at some level and urges humans to find salvation by striving to merge with 'The One' by following the path of good Karma and Yoga/Meditation practice.

The highest followers of all religions know that ownership of The One cannot be claimed by any group of mortals.

According to some (very plausible, IMO) theories, present-day Catholic Christianity is an amalgamation of Pagan rituals, beliefs and the word of Jesus. I suppose that during Constantine's time, the new religion had to be 'altered' to suit, and be palatable to, the local populace in order to be accepted.

The Malaysian anomaly may be explained by similar circumstances.

 

[indushek]

This is what i found on wiki regarding the history of Malaysia and that which offers answer to your query.

The Malay Peninsula was known to ancient Indians as Suvarnadvipa or the "Golden Peninsula", and was shown on Ptolemy's map as the "Golden Khersonese". Traders and settlers from India and China arrived as early as the first century of the common era, establishing trading ports and towns in the area in the 2nd and 3rd centuries CE. Both had a strong influence on the local culture. In the early centuries of the first millennium, the people of the Malay Peninsula adopted the Indian religions of Hinduism and Buddhism. The Sanskrit writing system was used as early as the 4th century.[29] Between the 7th and the 13th century, much of Peninsular Malaysia was under the Srivijaya empire, which was centered in Palembang on the island of Sumatra. After the fall of Srivijaya, the Java-based Majapahit empire had influence over most of Peninsular Malaysia and the Malay Archipelago.[30] In the early 15th century, Parameswara, a prince of the former Srivijayan empire, established a dynasty and founded what would become the Malacca Sultanate, commonly considered the first independent state in the peninsula.[31] Parameswara became a Muslim, and due to the fact that Malacca was under a Muslim Prince, the conversion of Malays to Islam accelerated in the 15th century.[3] Malacca was an important commercial centre during this time, attracting trade from around the region.[3]

So the bolded part explains the transition from hinduism to Islam and i think the text u are referring to must have occured at that time only. May be the writer wanted the people of that time to be able to relate to both the new and the older and fading faith.

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

It would be interesting to read the history of Hikayat Seri Rama.

I think the reason Islam, Christianity and Judaism are so similar is because they were born at roughly the same time at the same place. Similarly, Hinduism and Buddhism are similar.

I'd guess that this text was written at roughly a time when both Islam and Hinduism reached Malasia (almost simultaneously, not sure).

 

[Vimana1]

Abrahamic religions believe in judgement day and have similar prophets whereas the Eastern dharmic religions believe in concept of karma, reincarnation so they can not merged or considered the same.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

In the so called "modern religions", the problem is that the concept of God is somewhat similar to a ruler or a governor, someone distinct from the creation itself. In the more primitive religions, i.e., Hinduism and Buddhism, God is everything and beyond, and and hence His complete form is inconceivable. But He can be contemplated in any form and hence so many Gods in India.

This elementary difference in the concept of God actually brings about a great difference in understanding of the world and the premises on which life is to be lived.

 

[Bang Galore]

- how does this affect their religion - are they Muslims with Hindu concepts or Hindu with Muslim concepts.. Lots of questions.. but nevertheless, this is a very interesting way to look at the "merging" of the greatest Religions - Abrahamic and Eastern Hindu religion!

Since transition to Islam was in relatively peaceful conditions, places like Malaysia & Indonesia hold on to parts of their earlier culture. This is especially true of Indonesia where a lot of people have names originating in Sanskrit. Take for example the previous President Megawati Sukarnoputri; While her first name which means bearer of clouds could be credited to the choice of a close Indian friend of her father(Biju Patnaik), her surname means daughter of Sukarno in Sanskrit. It is common for sons to have putra in their names & for daughters to have putri in theirs. The present president Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has his first & last names originating in Sanskrit.

Susilo comes from the words su-, meaning good[2] and -sila, meaning behaviour, conduct or moral[2]. Bambang is a traditional boy name in Javanese, meaning knight. Yudhoyono comes from the words yuddha -meaning battle, fight; and yana, meaning journey[2]. Thus his name roughly translates as `knight who is well-behaved in battle and journey

Additionally the Ramayana is part of many cultures from Thailand to Cambodia & Laos. In each of these places the characters are interpreted slightly differently from the original story.

to each their own!

 

[EjazR]

Sliver... if you are researching Ramayana then read the Indian version of Ramayana... better refer to this link below:
http://www.valmikiramayan.net/
The era when Ramayana was written was way before Islam was born.

Well the point was not just about Islam but Abrahamaic faiths in general.

And in terms of Islamic theology, Islam does not start with Prophet Muhammed but with Prophet Adam himself who is believed to be the first man on earth.

According to less authentic sources, he was sent down to earth in South India-more specifically Mt. Adam in Sri Lanka. Then there is the inciden of Prophet Noah who is believed according to some sources to have settled down in North India and buries in Ayodhya.

This is where the poet mentions in his poem "Hindustani Baccho ka Qaumi Geet" a line that goes

Noohe nabi(Prophet Noah) ka aakar, tehra jahan safeena(ark)
meera watan wohi hai, mera watan wohi hai

This all happened thousands of years before Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) lifetime but are part of the Islamic and Abrahamic theology.

The epics in Malaysia and Indonesia may or may not be true, but to be honest there is really no way to categorically state that they are true or they are not true.

 

[*Awan*]

Nice..but if u say \"Allah\" does it literally mean one entity or god in general?

Yes when we say Allah it mean one and only one.supreme,mighty,creator of worlds.