Hindu Holy Men Behind Terrorist Attacks!!!!

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe, your responses are always a pleasure to read, even if coated with Indian sugar.

I assure you, dear Sir, I don't do sugar; I do sincerity.

Whatever I wrote, I wrote knowing it to be true. Never, not once, for effect, or as propaganda.

@roadrunner

In the past, your posts - those that come to mind readily, and some come to mind as very pleasant memories indeed, because of the erudition and research that had gone into them - were those of a committed, but fair, observer. It is sad that you seem to have retained only your commitment in writing the present posts.

If by false flag, you imply agents of the Indian state pretending to be agents of another state, that is a deplorable statement, and it is regrettable that you should stoop to such a low level. There is not a shred of evidence to prove that.

If Lt. Col. Purohit's involvement is what inspired this slander, then such inspiration is in disregard of the complete abhorrence that his disloyalty to his oath and his treachery to the nation inspired within his service and among military men throughout the Indian armed forces. I have not said 'deliberate' disregard, but it was a toss-up.

So you admit Lt Col Purohit is an example of the slander you accuse me of?

Then how can it be slander? You have acknowledged that your own agents have been involved in creating false flags.

Can you not believe that where there's one Purohit, there might be a lot more?

The only reason you've been told that everyone in the Indian intelligence is in abhorrence of Purohit's actions, is because he got caught. if he did not get caught, do you think Purohit's handlers would be in abhorrence of blowing up trains and blaming it on Pakistanis/Muslims?

If you look at what I wrote, with intentional and considered precision, you will find that my statement is that Purohit is NOT an example of false flagging, because he was acting on his own, with rogue elements of the polity discredited, and then disowned even by their own fellows.

These are not the Indian state.

The Indian state, I will take pains to elaborate, does not function without the driving of the politicians and the bureaucrats. The politicians and the bureaucrats in this case happen to be bitter opponents of the political entities that conspired together in this terrorist act. How can opponents of the state then represent the state?

You must be aware, given your previous displays of knowledge and general information, that the Indian Army does not act without the authority and direction of civilian policy makers, does not command its own secret intelligence army, and does not mount covert operations anywhere in the world, other than unit level intelligence-gathering in several specific disturbed areas.

It is sad that you have resorted to slandering a proud fighting force, and it is unexpected coming from you.

What do you mean "does not command its own secret intelligence army"?

All nations have intelligence services and secret agents.

Very specifically, the Indian Army, or the Indian Navy or the Indian Air Force have intelligence gathering organisations, but not secret agents.

In India, only R&W has secret agents deployed abroad; agents deployed within the country are managed by IB. Neither with even a shred of military control or involvement.

This is in sharp contrast to the ISI.

Please try to understand that we are different. Please try to understand that not every country is an Army with a country attached as an appendage.

If Pakistanis were killed deliberately, Indians would certainly do something about it.

Can you honestly say this is true?

The Samjhuta Express blast, 59 Pakistanis killed. Purohit responsible. What did Indians do? Make Purohit the scapegoat for all these blasts, instead of looking at the network behind them.

Don't you even read the papers? Can't you follow how the conspiracy has been unravelling, slowly at first, now with increasing speed?

You are to be congratulated on anticipating what hot-headed and intemperate Indians, many of them fan-boys, will be tempted to say, that these acts can only originate from a revanchist, frustrated party that lives for the day when it can take revenge for its defeats, defeats that a nation of super-human beings, the chosen, should never have suffered, indeed, could never have suffered except for the treachery of other humans - such treacherous humans ranging from the enemy, to the ally who was not an ally, to the all-weather friend whose barometer was out of order, to finally the leadership itself, drunk and sunk in the pleasures of the flesh, corrupt and unable to lead the nation to its deserved victory.

As long as you have this fixed idea, and continue to wage war, sometimes openly, more often through hired assassins and through treachery, war not against soldiers but against innocent men, women and children, however shrill your voices on occasions like this, you lack credibility. Even to your own. Your own magazines and blogs are clear evidence what you stand for today, as the Terror Central of the world.

You are so quick to claim, in broad generic and wholly misleading terms, that "It is to generate tensions between Indians and Pakistanis so that peace processes can be derailed, or just to keep the two squabbling", in a way that makes it seem that the Indian state is the party responsible for this, that it takes away attention from the precisely described behaviour of the Pakistani state, under the command and control of the Pakistani military, or to be accurate, the Pakistani Army.

If anybody in India shares these sentiments, it is a political party, an important and powerful political party, which enjoys the support of a large number of Indians not for its hideous parochialism and hatred of a particular religion, but because of the gross corruption and financial greed of the other option.

False flags are carried out for the benefit of one state or the other. By blowing up trains and saying, after a day or two, Muslim terrorist group x did this, what would Pakistan have to gain? India would have a lot to gain by saying this. So why wouldnt the Indian State be responsible for this? The intelligence services work for the Indian State.

I was at pains to explain that the Sangh Parivar is NOT the Indian State.

India has nothing to gain by saying this, that or the other, over and beyond what is already on the public radar for all to see. When it has so much evidence already, none of it acted upon by the Pakistani establishment, in spite of, or perhaps because of American endorsement of these findings, why should we bother to create more causes of friction? We want to reduce the friction, not to keep it at a boil as Pakistan's agencies - the deep state - seeks to do. There is no incentive whatsoever for us to stir up trouble.

For this reason, because the Indian political party in power is in favour of peace, from the highest level downwards, there is no earthly reason to ask the Indian intelligence services to undertake terrorist acts, especially when it is badly equipped to do so.

Again,you have lost the cue. It is not the Indian state behind Purohit and the conspirators, assuming that the charges are true, which I personally believe.It is a political faction at odds with the government of the day, with no control over the Army, with no control over the intelligence services.

Try, for a moment, if you can put aside your chosen role as leader of the storm troops of the Internet, to visualise a robust and active polity, where a party which is discredited, which does not enjoy the support of any of the country's minorities taken as entire entities, cannot do much but frustrate the earnest and sincere efforts of others.

What they are trying to do is well apparent to Indian opinion, and Indian opinion is committed to stopping them in their tracks and reversing the damage that they have done. It was not the CIA, not Mossad, not any alien organisation that got through to identify the authors of these murders and acts of terror, but our own agencies, working to their professional discipline, unafraid to lay their hands on the shoulders of the perpetrators, howsoever well-connected and influential, and operating with the active encouragement and enthusiastic support of the Supreme Court.

Your troubled thoughts regarding our difficulties are solicitous and kind, but as some of you may have noticed, we are acting on our own, whenever, wherever there is an opportunity to act.



What is your point? That the Indian state did this? Are you unaware of what is going on? and of the noose tightening slowly but gradually around the perpetrators? "The mills of God grind slow, but they grind exceeding small". For your ready reference: Teesta Setalvad is not a Muslim. Nor are 90% of her active support structure. It is not a Muslim set of officers who have unravelled the truth, it is a set of Indians who have set aside their other affiliations, in deference to their oaths of service, and have dug deep down. An example, frankly, that we are proud of.

This one sentence is sufficient to ensure that you are never, ever mistaken to be fair or as worthy of respect ever again.

You're seeking to minimize the damage. Instead of coming clean and saying Purohits do exist.

The problem here is that if you want to derail peace processes, which India does want to do, you need the Purohits. They exist because of the political situation.

Pakistan does not need to derail the peace process. Pakistan's best interest is to see the UN resolutions implemented.

It is not a question of further Purohits existing, it is, or was, unless you have changed the subject, that Hindu holy men are behind terrorist attacks. Not the State. Not the Army. Not the non-existent Army secret services. Not R&W. It was a small group of conspirators.

Let me remind once again: India does not want to derail the peace processes, India initiated them, India maintained them in spite of several churlish rebuffs, including the hysterical performance of the Pakistani Foreign Minister, the worst piece of bad drama since Bhutto's exhibition in the UN, and the Pakistani Foreign Secretary, who would have been thrown out by any country less accommodating and forgiving than India.

On the other hand, just as the Pakistani establishment does, under the instructions of the deep state, there are sections of the Indian political environment which have traditionally opposed peace-making, except for peace-making on their terms, under their auspices. It was for their purposes that Purohit existed.

At the end of the day, the deep gulf between us is because most Pakistanis fail to understand how radically differently our institutions and our processes work. It is ironic that you resent so bitterly any insinuation that we are similar. It bothers you; it sends up your BP; it drives you to snap at the person suggesting it. But to my wry amusement, there is nobody more prone to make this unwelcome assumption than a Pakistani himself. At such times as this, it seems almost impossible for you to believe that the Indian Army doesn't run the intelligence services, along with generally running the government; that there are different shades of political opinion in the country, and that these shades find reflection in our foreign policies, and foreign policy is not set by the Indian COAS; or that the police in India are not like the police in Pakistan, used only for the murder of one's political opponents, brothers included, and to create false evidence to destroy other opponents; or that Indian citizens actually know what is going on and have a say in what's going on; or that public opinion plays a role which can topple governments and create huge embarrassment for the Army (or Navy or Air Force).

These, unfortunately, are precisely those aspects in which we differ. You cannot know what a free country is unless you come over and find out what it feels like