HESA Fighter Kowsar Program - Current and Next Generation

[drmeson]

well I knew one thing different between F-5 and F-20 that take some room

Specifications (F404-GE-402)[edit]​

General characteristics​

• Type: afterburning turbofan
• Length: 154 in (390 cm)
• Diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
• Dry weight: 2,282 lb (1,035 kg)

Specifications (J85-GE-21)​

General characteristics​

• Type: afterburning turbojet engine
• Length: 112.5 in (286 cm)
• Diameter: 20.8 in (53 cm) inlet
• Dry weight: 684 lb (310 kg)

that's 1m difference in size

Light fighter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The big problem with your post is that OWJ is not churning out any variant of F404-GE-02 so its relevance here in this discussion is useless. It's an old turbofan which was designed in 1970s. Had revolution happened 2-3 years later we would have had our hands on it.

What we do have is a single crystal turbofan equivalent to FJ-33, called Jahesh-700.

FJ-33 => Larger version FJ-44-4A (20-21 Inches dia, 53 Inches length, dry thurst of 3600 lbf)
Jahesh-700 => Larger Version Jahesh, lets call it Jahesh-X (20-21 inches same as J85/OWJ, 50-55 inches length, dry thurst of 3600-3800, Afterburner 7500-8000 lbf).

So same dia, much less length, Jahesh's FJ-44-4A version will be almost interchangeable with OWJ J-90, but may require a redesign of air intakes like in 3-7600 Saeqeh. Its reduced length will also make much more room for advanced avionics in the future or maybe internal fuel. Future generation may look like this.

Technologies already present are underlined

-2x Jahesh-X on Kowsar airframe (more composite) will result in ~15000 lbf
-highly maneuverable (F-5E/F, F-20, F/A-18, Saeqeh family is highly maneuverable airframes)
-RCS of ~1 m2 (reduced even more with RAM, V tails of Saeqeh)
-Datalink with G-WACS network of OTHRs and AESAs like Sepeher, Qadir and Asr etc
-2 x All aspect HOBS WVR + 2-3 x ARH-BVR
-IRST IEI TIC-S-2 long-range infrared with 150 KM passive detection (in use)
-AESA like Grifo-E (Bayyenat-II is domestic ditto of Grifo-346)
-HOTAS

That will be the machine that IRIAF/IRGC-AF can take into the unmanned era to fly along A2A UCAV's. We just need some patience.

​

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

Shit tier 3rd generation fighters

Said the mongrel monkey cuckold hebrew.

Here's a glowing assessment of your sandmutt kins-"men's" performance in le "cHaRioTs oF FirE":
#IDF terrible performance in their "Chariots of Fire" maneuver

Equipment was dropped - and landed away from the fighters
Tactical equipment dropped by Air Force Hercules aircraft during an exercise in #Cyprus, landed at a remote location • The Air Force stopped the parachutes following the incident, and an investigation was opened to examine its circumstances.

Imagine if this occurred during a war with #Hezbollah

Seems like the desert demon "muh yhwh eloheinu" fucked up when he "chose" you filthy wogs.

4th gen like your F-313 is a working jet

How many aircraft models did your simian sandmutt aerospace industry launch into operation?

Apart from "muh kfir" (more like CUCKfir), that failed little airborne turd or "le lavi" which you sold to "uncle chang" for a beggarly amount...kek, kike greed for shekels never fails to amuse me.

 

[Hack-Hook]

The big problem with your post is that OWJ is not churning out any variant of F404-GE-02 so its relevance here in this discussion is useless. It's an old turbofan which was designed in 1970s. Had revolution happened 2-3 years later we would have had our hands on it.

What we do have is a single crystal turbofan equivalent to FJ-33, called Jahesh-700.

FJ-33 => Larger version FJ-44-4A (20-21 Inches dia, 53 Inches length, dry thurst of 3600 lbf)
Jahesh-700 => Larger Version Jahesh, lets call it Jahesh-X (20-21 inches same as J85/OWJ, 50-55 inches length, dry thurst of 3600-3800, Afterburner 7500-8000 lbf).

So same dia, much less length, Jahesh's FJ-44-4A version will be almost interchangeable with OWJ J-90, but may require a redesign of air intakes like in 3-7600 Saeqeh. Its reduced length will also make much more room for advanced avionics in the future or maybe internal fuel. Future generation may look like this.

Technologies already present are underlined

-2x Jahesh-X on Kowsar airframe (more composite) will result in ~15000 lbf
-highly maneuverable (F-5E/F, F-20, F/A-18, Saeqeh family is highly maneuverable airframes)
-RCS of ~1 m2 (reduced even more with RAM, V tails of Saeqeh)
-Datalink with G-WACS network of OTHRs and AESAs like Sepeher, Qadir and Asr etc
-2 x All aspect HOBS WVR + 2-3 x ARH-BVR
-IRST IEI TIC-S-2 long-range infrared with 150 KM passive detection (in use)
-AESA like Grifo-E (Bayyenat-II is domestic ditto of Grifo-346)
-HOTAS

That will be the machine that IRIAF/IRGC-AF can take into the unmanned era to fly along A2A UCAV's. We just need some patience.

​

The airframe will be maneuverable if there be enough power. Look at the last month when the airplane fly with mig 29 and f14 . When those plane make a turn the kowsar could not keep up with them also the question was what was in f20 in place of the second pilot and I point that the engine inside it was 1 meter longer.
Also the engine won't cut it putting 2 fj-44 inside airframe of an f5 won't make it equal to f20 . You give you a fighter with the same power envelope as f5 but with a lot more efficient engine if you want something in class of f20 you must give it an engine in class of f404

 

[Beny Karachun]

Said the mongrel monkey cuckold hebrew.

Here's a glowing assessment of your sandmutt kins-"men's" performance in le "cHaRioTs oF FirE":
#IDF terrible performance in their "Chariots of Fire" maneuver

Equipment was dropped - and landed away from the fighters
Tactical equipment dropped by Air Force Hercules aircraft during an exercise in #Cyprus, landed at a remote location • The Air Force stopped the parachutes following the incident, and an investigation was opened to examine its circumstances.

Imagine if this occurred during a war with #Hezbollah

Seems like the desert demon "muh yhwh eloheinu" fucked up when he "chose" you filthy wogs.


How many aircraft models did your simian sandmutt aerospace industry launch into operation?

Apart from "muh kfir" (more like CUCKfir), that failed little airborne turd or "le lavi" which you sold to "uncle chang" for a beggarly amount...kek, kike greed for shekels never fails to amuse me.

Subhuman behaviour lol

You guys launch anti ship missiles at your own ships, you think airdropping some equipment a bit too far is such a failure?

 

[drmeson]

The airframe will be maneuverable if there be enough power.

Maneuverability has less to do with engine power. It depends upon aerodynamics. F-5E/F-20/YF-17/F/A-18 family is exceptionally maneuverable. Saeqeh/Kowsar belongs to this family as any other member. Future generations won't be different either.

Look at the last month when the airplane fly with mig 29 and f14 . When those plane make a turn the kowsar could not keep up with them also the question was what was in f20 in place of the second pilot and I point that the engine inside it was 1 meter longer.
Also the engine won't cut it putting 2 fj-44 inside airframe of an f5 won't make it equal to f20 . You give you a fighter with the same power envelope as f5 but with a lot more efficient engine if you want something in class of f20 you must give it an engine in class of f404

Not sure what are you talking about because, among the formation that flew, the Kowsar had the best-controlled movement with stability thanks to custom FBW (key aero). Of the whole group, Kowsar and Saeqeh had the most elegant kind of rolling + yawing motion along with the MIG-29 then F-14AM. The worst was from F-4E as excepted.

Also the engine won't cut it putting 2 fj-44 inside airframe of an f5 won't make it equal to f20 . You give you a fighter with the same power envelope as f5 but with a lot more efficient engine if you want something in class of f20 you must give it an engine in class of f404

F-20's class in the modern age is irrelevant since it was a product of the 1980s. Kowsars avionics package is already better with the package they showed and later articles mentioned. Modern combat is more about avionics+combat+communication suite. If you are flying with the least possible RCS, long-range AESA with a datalink carrying LR-BVR then you are a threat to the enemy otherwise no matter how much engine power you have, it would not matter. A T:W of 1.0 is great. 2x FJ-44-4A equivalent Jahesh config will produce 15-16K lbf which is some 5-6K upgrade over 2xOWJ. FCK-1 has the same thurst.

Subhuman behaviour lol

I apologize to you for my countryman's poor behavior. We are usually a well-behaved bunch. He is probably having a bad day.

I also apologize to you for the crimes our extended Indo-European Aryan brothers from much further west did against you.

I also apologize to you for the crimes our extended Indo-European Aryan brothers from much further west did against you.

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

Subhuman behaviour lol

You guys launch anti ship missiles at your own ships, you think airdropping some equipment a bit too far is such a failure?

Two words, kikeroach.
אסון המסוקים (Ason HaMasokim)

You inbred sandmutt wogs topped up any blunder/sabotage the Iranians may incur with this incident alone, shitskin shmuel. So much so that the retarded families of these 73 dead shitskin hebrew subhumans keep screaming about it every year whenever they have a gripe against the KIKEDF to voice, KEK.

And by all fucking means, feel free to airdrop your equipment ten miles into enemy territory during war as well. If you don't die at the hands of the enemy which commandeers said equipment, you'll die of heartburn that your shekels turned into free aid for the people you despise so much, greedy foreskin-munching hymies that you all are

 

[Hack-Hook]

Not sure what are you talking about because, among the formation that flew, the Kowsar had the best-controlled movement with stability thanks to custom FBW (key aero). Of the whole group, Kowsar and Saeqeh had the most elegant kind of rolling + yawing motion along with the MIG-29 then F-14AM. The worst was from F-4E as excepted.

wrong , the video tv showed proved that it do less tighter turn, and by the way who expect that flying box (F-4) do any sort of elegant anything . the only thing that made F-4 relevant was J-79

Maneuverability has less to do with engine power. It depends upon aerodynamics. F-5E/F-20/YF-17/F/A-18 family is exceptionally maneuverable. Saeqeh/Kowsar belongs to this family as any other member. Future generations won't be different either.

come on the power is very important on keeping your turn , if you do a turn you loose energy , and if the engine can't compensate for that you had to break turn or go to stall . its a simple basic lesson in flying they teach you at at the beginning
you can even experience it with a flight simulator for yourself

F-20's class in the modern age is irrelevant since it was a product of the 1980s. Kowsars avionics package is already better with the package they showed and later articles mentioned. Modern combat is more about avionics+combat+communication suite. If you are flying with the least possible RCS, long-range AESA with a datalink carrying LR-BVR then you are a threat to the enemy otherwise no matter how much engine power you have, it would not matter. A T:W of 1.0 is great. 2x FJ-44-4A equivalent Jahesh config will produce 15-16K lbf which is some 5-6K upgrade over 2xOWJ. FCK-1 has the same thurst.

except it don't do that 2x Fj-44-4 provide 7200LBf or 16kn
2x J85 provide 3600lbf or 16kn of dry trust and 5000 LBF or 22kn with afterburner.
exactly the same but with better efficiency

and honestly what are you discussing ,, all the avionic in f-20 are different from f-5 and are 4th generation but if you don't like them you can simply replace them with the ones in kowsar. I believe F-20 is as relevant as Kowsar in modern warfare if not more relevant because of its more efficient engine it only lost to f-16 by small margin and they say some of it was for political reason. do you knew it could carry and fire 4x AIM-120 or AGM-84 can Kowsar in its current formation do that and i don't exactly call AN/AGP-67 useless at least it was a planed phased array radar that supported Data-Link and The system broadcasts an average power of 396 watts, allowing it to detect fighter-sized targets at up to 40 nm (75 km) in tracking modes, and up to 80 nm (150 km) in velocity search.The APG-67 also includes a variety of air-to-ground modes including real beam ground mapping, synthetic aperture radar imaging (SAR) and beacon tracking. It can also search for moving targets on the ground, and offers tracking modes for ground targets similar to those for air-to-air use. These modes can also be used for sea-surface-search, in which case the display is de-cluttered to remove waves. The SAR mode is an optional add-on to the basic system.
welcome to do that with that grifo radar you mention, the radar was more powerful than AN/APG-66 used in F-16 A/B



by the way its not the discussion , you said two brain is better than one brain in aircraft and all new aircrafts are two sit , I said no and list some aircrafts (well nearly all new mainstream aircrafts) and said those are single sit unless they are for special missions and that special mission is certainly not fighting.

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

wrong , the video tv showed proved that it do less tighter turn, and by the way who expect that flying box (F-4) do any sort of elegant anything . the only thing that made F-4 relevant was J-79

come on the power is very important on keeping your turn , if you do a turn you loose energy , and if the engine can't compensate for that you had to break turn or go to stall . its a simple basic lesson in flying they teach you at at the beginning
you can even experience it with a flight simulator for yourself

Indeed. The airframe of the F-4 is long outdated. I would say Iran needs to take a look at the Harop's aerodynamics and consider implementing the design on manned platforms.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Indeed. The airframe of the F-4 is long outdated. I would say Iran needs to take a look at the Harop's aerodynamics and consider implementing the design on manned platforms.

That design is a delta wing with canard. Something like rafale and eurofighter. I say for that we need something at least in class of f404 or f414 otherwise it will under performing

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

That design is a delta wing with canard. Something like rafale and eurofighter. I say for that we need something at least in class of f404 or f414 otherwise it will under performing

In all fairness, they ought to throw money and manpower at the development of a high-end low-bypass double-spool turbofan engine.

Thus far, IRGC is doing it's own thing and the IRIAF it's own and it will be a decade before either of them put out their next product.

Pooling funds and combining strengths would produce results in half the time and at much reduced costs.

 

[drmeson]

wrong , the video tv showed proved that it do less tighter turn, and by the way who expect that flying box (F-4) do any sort of elegant anything . the only thing that made F-4 relevant was J-79

Which timestamp are you talking about? I watched the whole parade, whenever they showed the formation, Kowsar moved most elegantly and its partial roll was the perfect most thanks to FBW.

F-4E the "brick" was the funniest. The pilot was barely able to keep it in line with the rest.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Which timestamp are you talking about? I watched the whole parade, whenever they showed the formation, Kowsar moved most elegantly and its partial roll was the perfect most thanks to FBW.

F-4E the "brick" was the funniest. The pilot was barely able to keep it in line with the rest.

timestamp idon't knew watch it on tv. but at the end of the flight that each plane went to different direction the one that the some of the pilots pulled inside turn and some outside turn

 

[drmeson]

timestamp idon't knew watch it on tv. but at the end of the flight that each plane went to different direction the one that the some of the pilots pulled inside turn and some outside turn

I saw the clips again. Kowsar had the best aerial show, whatever minimal barrel roll they required it performed it best way, did not drop a bit or over do it.

1) Kowsar
2) MIG-29
3) F-14 and F-4E were the worst

 

[drmeson]

I was looking at local IRST options for IRIAF for the next generation of fighters. Our local Khordad systems use TIC-S-2 that can detect up to 150-300 km depending upon the signature strength.

Its highly advanced focal plane array sensor provides very fast real-time image analysis. It is just 60 long, 26 cm wide easily integratable in a Kowsar size fighter.

 

[drmeson]

100-120 x Kowsar-I can supplement ~70-73 x group of F-14AM (Upgraded)+MIG-29 9.12A for interception until Kowsar-II is unveiled. With datalinks with long-range GWACS (OTHR search+AESA Engagement)+SIGINIT/ELINT+LORADS/SHORADS+UCAVS. This interceptor force is quite strong I would say.