Here is your 55BN Rawalpindi Metro Project my STUPID awaam

[Kabira]

It has nothing to do with elections reform. People willingly voted for PML N in Punjab and will do it again. Why?
Just as PPPP plays sindh card , PML N is known to play Punjab card.
Even the most educated people in this form for example will support PMLN even for all its miserable policies

Most pro punjab party is not N but chaudhrys of Gujrat, PML Q. N is actually balanced

 

[PakCan]

So 1 article gave everyone the insight into the project? Stop turning everything into PTI vs PML N. When its time for elections then the N and IK fan boys can have their goo but till then this is about Pakistan. Nawaz Sharif is the prime minster of Pakistan and get over it.
Is anyone from Lahore and has used the metro there? How is that metro doing? Is it profitable? How are the passenger numbers?

 

[Viper0011.]

View attachment 199460

LOL here is the 55 Bn Tax payer money project - Rawalpindi Metro - Quality badly exposed today after rain. HERE IS YOUR MONEY - PAKISTAN KE AWAAM! LOLzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Why are people allowed to post such stupid, uneducated posts. When the LAND underneath the basin or the core surface of the EARTH cracks and creates "SOIL DEPRESSION", its due to the fact that the crust of the land was weak, too close to the water or had "SINK HOLES" in it. When water pressure is put on, it dilutes the thickness of the mud and the mud slides down into the higher surface of water. Google or youtube "Sink Holes" and you'll see examples like this and many more, much severe.

This isn't your Prime Minister's fault. The land in this area had Soil Depression in it due to under-earth water levels or a Sink Hole. You should be thankful that this happened now. It may have killed people if this damaged occurred when trains were running on this surface with humans in it. What is wrong with you people? Why is everything perceived your PM's fault? The guy is working to build something for the country and you people have no courtesy to extend. Speaks volumes about your spirit of nationalism!!!!

 

[Sugarcane]

Unlike most opponents of Metro projects, My concerns are heavy subsidies which means more white elephants and corruption in Projects. Rapid transit has become basic need in big cities, but govt. should come up with self-sustained modal which should at-least cover it's running cost (if doesn't generate profits), and opposition should keep eye on progress to ensure the quality and stop corruption.

I don't know why Govt. of Sindh haven't started such projects (at-least i am not aware of it), KPK govt. should also build BRTS or Metro Trains in Peshawar, while in Punjab Multan & Faisalabad also need it. In fact we should have build these things a decade ago.

 

[WishLivePak]

So 1 article gave everyone the insight into the project? Stop turning everything into PTI vs PML N. When its time for elections then the N and IK fan boys can have their goo but till then this is about Pakistan. Nawaz Sharif is the prime minster of Pakistan and get over it.
Is anyone from Lahore and has used the metro there? How is that metro doing? Is it profitable? How are the passenger numbers?

I haven't been to lahore yet, but I can tell you its not prrofitable per news. Last time I read news, it said that Punjab gov't heavily subsidizes it. I think they lose 50m rupees daily. Might want to check it.

Passengers numbers must be great, as its cheaper and faster than competition.

Yeah its sad that one piece of road is assumed to have cost $550 million. Let the project finish and then discuss. We cannot cancel project now since so much money has been poured in already and much time has been spent.

Unlike most opponents of Metro projects, My concerns are heavy subsidies which means more white elephants and corruption in Projects. Rapid transit has become basic need in big cities, but govt. should come up with self-sustained modal which should at-least cover it's running cost (if doesn't generate profits), and opposition should keep eye on progress to ensure the quality and stop corruption.

I don't know why Govt. of Sindh haven't started such projects (at-least i am not aware of it), KPK govt. should also build BRTS or Metro Trains in Peshawar, while in Punjab Multan & Faisalabad also need it. In fact we should have build these things a decade ago.

The problem is, though we need metro, they're spending way too much on it. That means they cannot charge what they should and have to subsidies. As such, they are going to lose millions of rupees, as is the case with lahore metro bus.

In Canada, 1:30 hour bus ticket costs some $3-5 dollars. In Pakistan, can they charge 250-500 rupees? That is how much a person makes 1/4 or 1/2 of the day. Not to mention they need return trip, so thats like 500-1000 rupees. Times that by 20 days of month, that is 10000-20000 rupees. And low monthly income of Pakistan before tax is somewhere between 10000-15000.

Investment is taken into account of fare. How much should they charge to recover the money they spend making it.

 

[Sugarcane]

The problem is, though we need metro, they're spending way too much on it. That means they cannot charge what they should and have to subsidies. As such, they are going to lose millions of rupees, as is the case with lahore metro bus.

In Canada, 1:30 hour bus ticket costs some $3-5 dollars. In Pakistan, can they charge 250-500 rupees? That is how much a person makes 1/4 or 1/2 of the day. Not to mention they need return trip, so thats like 500-1000 rupees. Times that by 20 days of month, that is 10000-20000 rupees. And low monthly income of Pakistan before tax is somewhere between 10000-15000.

Investment is taken into account of fare. How much should they charge to recover the money they spend making it.

You can't compare prices of Canada with Pakistan, As running cost will be way lower in Pakistan than Canada i.e. You will not be paying salaries to drivers and employees comparable to Canada, And i am not saying to recover investment as it will not be possible but to sustain operations which includes running the buses, maintenance and upkeep of bus stops, and saving enough funds for acquisition of new buses if require or replacing existing when they becomes old. Private transport which metro replaced was not that much cheap either, so fare can be comparable to that instead of heavenly subsidized.

 

[WishLivePak]

You can't compare prices of Canada with Pakistan, As running cost will be way lower in Pakistan than Canada i.e. You will not be paying salaries to drivers and employees comparable to Canada, And i am not saying to recover investment as it will not be possible but to sustain operations which includes running the buses, maintenance and upkeep of bus stops, and saving enough funds for acquisition of new buses if require or replacing existing when they becomes old. Private transport which metro replaced was not that much cheap either, so fare can be comparable to that instead of heavenly subsidized.

I was merely giving example and those numbers can shed a good light.

Take a look this way, lets say Pakistanis should pay half of 10k-20k, that is 5k-10k monthly bus cost compared to Canada. Now lets say they pay a quarter, that's 2,500-5,000 rupees a month (20 days return trip). It is still a lot. This is compared to the 10k-20k monthly bus fare cost.

For a person who makes 15,000 a month, 1/3 is his income goes to bus fare. In Canada, lowest job makes $1500 a month and I believe 1/15-1/7 of the cost goes for monthly bus pass.

So for someone in Pakistan who makes 15,000 rupees a month, his costs should be 1000-2000 rupees. Divide that by 20 days, that is 50-100 rupees a day (as someone who makes 15,000 over 20 days makes 750 rupees daily, so he pays some 1/7 of bus fare relative to his daily income).

Again, this numbers are not realistic but you can get a good example out of it. At 50-100 rupees, the transit system is not sustainable. So what is a good number to

I don't know bus cost of other countries so I can't use them as example. UK, Germany and France have higher cost than Canada. Hence my example.

Here you go, daily costs:

Salary 15000/30 = 750
House rent 5000/30 = 166~
Food at work 1200/20 = 60
Return bus ticket = 100

750 - 326 = 424 * 20 = 8,480 rupees. With 8480 rupees, he has to feed his family, medicine, pay for school, clothing and so forth. So if a good number, like 200 rupees return fare, is charged it means he has 324 at the end of the day to survive. This is 6,480.


edit,minimum wage is actually 12,000. So that means at 100 return fare, family has 5,480 to spend. At 200 rupee return fare, family is 3,480 to spend.

 

[Sugarcane]

I was merely giving example and those numbers can shed a good light.

Take a look this way, lets say Pakistanis should pay half of 10k-20k, that is 5k-10k monthly bus cost compared to Canada. Now lets say they pay a quarter, that's 2,500-5,000 rupees a month (20 days return trip). It is still a lot. This is compared to the 10k-20k monthly bus fare cost.

For a person who makes 15,000 a month, 1/3 is his income goes to bus fare. In Canada, lowest job makes $1500 a month and I believe 1/15-1/7 of the cost goes for monthly bus pass.

So for someone in Pakistan who makes 15,000 rupees a month, his costs should be 1000-2000 rupees. Divide that by 20 days, that is 50-100 rupees a day (as someone who makes 15,000 over 20 days makes 750 rupees daily, so he pays some 1/7 of bus fare relative to his daily income).

Again, this numbers are not realistic but you can get a good example out of it. At 50-100 rupees, the transit system is not sustainable. So what is a good number to

I don't know bus cost of other countries so I can't use them as example. UK, Germany and France have higher cost than Canada. Hence my example.

Dude, Running cost of BRTS can be covered easily by making people pay more or less same which they were paying in public transport (where they used to travel in worst possible conditions including time waste in traffic jams), Obviously flat rate system will not work as it will be expensive for majority, so ticketing system/fare structure should be revised to make it win-win for all. Pakistan is not a rich country that we can afford to keep adding burden of subsidies of millions of rupees per month for each new route opened. If this is the modal you want govt. to follow than govt. should stop wasting money just for political gains and use funds on other productive projects i.e. Improve health, education, clean water, sanitation etc. People are already traveling and paying for it with no burden on public kitty.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Why are people allowed to post such stupid, uneducated posts. When the LAND underneath the basin or the core surface of the EARTH cracks and creates "SOIL DEPRESSION", its due to the fact that the crust of the land was weak, too close to the water or had "SINK HOLES" in it. When water pressure is put on, it dilutes the thickness of the mud and the mud slides down into the higher surface of water. Google or youtube "Sink Holes" and you'll see examples like this and many more, much severe.

This isn't your Prime Minister's fault. The land in this area had Soil Depression in it due to under-earth water levels or a Sink Hole. You should be thankful that this happened now. It may have killed people if this damaged occurred when trains were running on this surface with humans in it. What is wrong with you people? Why is everything perceived your PM's fault? The guy is working to build something for the country and you people have no courtesy to extend. Speaks volumes about your spirit of nationalism!!!!

Well pakistani people can,t change their traits

 

[Rasengan]

Why are people allowed to post such stupid, uneducated posts.

Most individuals in this forum can eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit out a much smarter statement than that. This thread is open to the general public, henceforth take your armchair general tendencies to the swamps of the Missouri.

 

[Viper0011.]

Most individuals in this forum can eat a bowl of alphabet soup and shit out a much smarter statement than that. This thread is open to the general public, henceforth take your armchair general tendencies to the swamps of the Missouri.

Sounds like you had a terrible experience with them Bubba's when you went to school there . Yea, them Bubba's can be rough!

 

[Qalandari]

TI moves against Rs1.2 bn funding to Nespak for Metro Bus Project

ISLAMABAD: Unjustified payment of Rs1.2 billion to the consultant has been alleged in the mega Rawaalpindi-Islamabad Metro Bus Project. The Commissioner Rawalpindi and Hanif Abbasi, chairman metro bus project monitoring and implementation committee, have been asked by Transparency International to look into the allegation of extraordinary fee (about 2.7 % of project cost) paid to Nespak, the consultant.

The spokesman of Rawalpindi Development Authority Hafiz Muhammad Irfan when contacted said that the Metro Bus project is a transparent project and all the details of the award of tenders have been placed on the official website of the project. He contested the Transparency International’s claim that the cost of the project has increased. He said that the complaint of the corruption watchdog would be taken up seriously and if any discrepancy is found it will be sorted out.

Transparency International in its letter has mentioned that it has received a complaint that extraordinary fee (about 2.7 % of project cost) amounting to over Rs1.20 Billion was paid to Nespak and that due to the wrong feasibility report prepared by Nespak, the estimated cost (Rs44.5 billion) of the project has increased within months by more than 10%, to over Rs50 billion. This figure does not include the cost of Buses’ supply/operation.

The letter says that according to the Rule No 45 (5) Punjab Procurement Rules 2014, Punjab Government, through direct contracting, is allowed to engage any consultant, an organisation owned or controlled by the government, the Federal Government or any other Provincial Government. However, prior approval of the government is necessary for awarding the unsolicited contract, and also that Hanif Abbasi or Commissioner Rawalpindi as head of the Project Team, prior to award of the contract to Nespak should have obtained the approval of the authority to the extent of declaring the project as a complex project, and issued a certificate certifying the reasonability of the negotiated price of consultancy based on the principles of procurement contained in Rule No. 4 Punjab Procurement Rules 2014.

“In projects similar to Islamabad-Rawalpindi Metro Bus Project such as Multan Metro Bus Project, Green Line Metro Bus Project Karachi, the fee quoted by the lowest evaluated responsive Consultant is between 1% to 2% of the estimated cost of the project. In the 18 km Green Line Metro Bus Project Karachi the estimated cost is Rs17 Billion, plus Buses, and the lowest evaluated responsive consultants has quoted about Rs180 million, which is about 1%. Nespak has quoted Rs220 million for the Green Line Metro Bus Project, which is 1.3% of the project cost. TI requests the chairman to look into the complaint and the fee of Nespak shall be rationalised to match the competitive rates prevailing in market, so as to comply with the requirements of Rule 45 of Punjab Procurement Rules 2014, and the overpayment as fee of approximately Rs700 million may also be recovered from Nespak”, the letter concludes.

TI moves against Rs1.2 bn funding to Nespak for Metro Bus Project - thenews.com.pk

 

[Viper0011.]

Unlike most opponents of Metro projects, My concerns are heavy subsidies which means more white elephants and corruption in Projects. Rapid transit has become basic need in big cities.

I don't know why Govt. of Sindh haven't started such projects (at-least i am not aware of it), KPK govt. should also build BRTS or Metro Trains in Peshawar, while in Punjab Multan & Faisalabad also need it. In fact we should have build these things a decade ago.

1) Sindh government has been working on a plan that I'd reviewed a while ago. It used to be called the Circular Railway plan, which was a version of the Subway. They wanted Western and later Korean companies to work with them on it. That got scrapped.
Recently, they were working with Daewoo to acquire a few hundreds of large buses to start a Metro bus project. I think it was supposed to be announced three weeks ago. May be a little delayed. They were looking for private financers for it, from large Cement, Construction and other companies who are large enough to co-partner with the State government. It should be announced soon I think.

2) KPK was trying to get Chinese investment. The Chinese weren't extending the needed credit or investment due to a lack of proper credit score and history of completing projects (this is how Punjab, Sindh and now Baluchistan get funding). KPK government need to start finishing up real, actual big projects so they can build a history for others to trust on (foreign investment).

3) I think Faisalabad and Multan have already been approved. I think I saw it somewhere on an IMF report. Work was slated to begin by 2015-2016.....

4) Transparency International was brought in by NS and SS a few years ago to audit all of these big projects. There won't be any corruption at the higher level for sure. 10-20% will ALWAYS be present at the street / lower level. So watch out for news from TI

 

[Sugarcane]

1) Sindh government has been working on a plan that I'd reviewed a while ago. It used to be called the Circular Railway plan, which was a version of the Subway. They wanted Western and later Korean companies to work with them on it. That got scrapped.
Recently, they were working with Daewoo to acquire a few hundreds of large buses to start a Metro bus project. I think it was supposed to be announced three weeks ago. May be a little delayed. They were looking for private financers for it, from large Cement, Construction and other companies who are large enough to co-partner with the State government. It should be announced soon I think.

2) KPK was trying to get Chinese investment. The Chinese weren't extending the needed credit or investment due to a lack of proper credit score and history of completing projects (this is how Punjab, Sindh and now Baluchistan get funding). KPK government need to start finishing up real, actual big projects so they can build a history for others to trust (foreign investment).

3) I think Faisalabad and Multan have already been approved. I think I saw it somewhere on an IMF report. Work was slated to begin by 2015-2016.....

4) Transparency International was brought in by NS and SS a few years ago to audit all of these big projects. There won't be any corruption at the higher level or sure. 10-20% will ALWAYS be present at the street / lower level. So watch out for news from TI

1. Circular railway was decades old plan, i would be pleasantly surprise if Sindh govt. can deliver a single route of BRTS before next election.

4. I hope TI can stop major corruption, But Pakistanies will always find way to get their cut.

 

[Rasengan]

Sounds like you had a terrible experience with them Bubba's when you went to school there . Yea, them Bubba's can be rough!

Crackhead please go and see a psychiatrists, before you decide to commit seppuku and make the front page news on CNN. Your writing capability in the English language is relatively horrendous, because you procrastinated too much in class with your imaginary friend Bubba.