Help me understand Jew history

[user1]

The tradition says that those Lost Tribes are the Pashtoon & Kasmiris...

DNA studies on Pashtun population of Pakistan indicate that they are from Northern Iranian stock with about 10% of them having Greek markers. They are not a lost tribe of I.

More info here:

Theory of Pashtun descent from Israelites - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

AFAIK, the only people who are discovered having semitic DNA are Lemba people of the South Africa. They can be considered one of the lost tribes.

In palestine-israel conflict, religion definitely is the source of hate..Especially the traditiinal muslim hatred of "jews" purported by quran and hadiths.

Yes, Quran talks about Jews as law-breakers; but, also tells about their patience and virtuousness and tells that they were sent leaders in succession with scripture and wisdom but in the end most of them were the slaves of theer own desires.

About the current Muslim Jewish conflict involving Palestine, the reason is simple. There were European Jews who were settlers.

By the turn of the 20th century, Jewish consisted only 6% of Palestine's population. After Balfour declaration of 1917, they started to arrive in throngs to Palestine and started to buy land and settle there. The Arabs did notice that and were vocal about that but did not take the arms.

Jews knew that if they tried the democratic methods, they will never be able to make the dream of Israel a reality. So, they resorted to terrorism which included massacres and ethnic cleansing. This led to mass exodus of Palestinians to Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Of a total population of 1.3 Million Arabs, between 700,000 to 1 Million Palestinians had to flee. This way, in order to create a so called democratic country, Israelis first had to practice fascist tactics.

The bitterness of the Palestinians definitely have a cause, as they are homeless people now.

On the top of that, there is the dream of a 'Greater Israel' that does not let Israelis calm down and start a peace process.

Yassir Arafat, always sought a policy of moderation, but, Israelis always tried to crush his movement. The 2 state solution of today is in fact his proposition, which, although Israelis accept but only for show. Their actual plans had always been to expand the Israel. You can find the maps of Greater Israel on the web.

 

[humanfirst]

Nah This isnt causing hate Actually.... Muslims were always more tolerant and protective of Jews comparing to Christians till 1947...

Islam and Judaism are closest religions...... Strictly Monotheistic...

Everything changed after the Creation Of Israel after second world war ....

Prophet Muhammad's action was entirely political based on the events of war and according to Jewish Laws....

Really...? Let me recall you of prophet muhammeds treatment of jewish tribe banu nadir.I will make it concise.
-After the constitution of medina was created there was truce between jewish tribes and muslims.It was specifically stated that things like arranging blood money is responsibility to each group only.A poet of banu nadir-ka'b bin ashraff writes poetry glorifying slain quraish of medina, Prophet muhammed has him assasinated.Note that no blood money was given by murderers nor the mastermind.Now two muslim men of medina kills people from tribe of amir, prophet muhammed wants to save the asses of muslim murderers so he goes on collecting blood money for them, Completely ignoring the charter of medina and his non payment of blood money for ka'ab, he demands contribution for blood money from banu nadir-Their reply is not written in any hadiths but it is an easy guess.Amidst this blatant mockery of justice, Prophet conveniently get the relevation that banu nadir is plotting to kill him.!!And he ordered expulsion of them..Every sentence of what I wrote is verifiable from sahih hadiths..So much for being tolerant and protective of jews..

 

[Desert Fox]

Here's a small video showing the actual reason behind Palestine - Israel conflict. I shared it on another thread also. Watch it

Video Providers - Anonymous Hacktivists

That's why U.N. should've just went with Hitler's plan of settling Jews in sparsely populated Madagascar.

 

[i!i!i!i!i]

nvm ...

 

[user1]

Really...? Let me recall you of prophet muhammeds treatment of jewish tribe banu nadir.I will make it concise.
-After the constitution of medina was created there was truce between jewish tribes and muslims.It was specifically stated that things like arranging blood money is responsibility to each group only.A poet of banu nadir-ka'b bin ashraff writes poetry glorifying slain quraish of medina, Prophet muhammed has him assasinated.Note that no blood money was given by murderers nor the mastermind.Now two muslim men of medina kills people from tribe of amir, prophet muhammed wants to save the asses of muslim murderers so he goes on collecting blood money for them, Completely ignoring the charter of medina and his non payment of blood money for ka'ab, he demands contribution for blood money from banu nadir-Their reply is not written in any hadiths but it is an easy guess.Amidst this blatant mockery of justice, Prophet conveniently get the relevation that banu nadir is plotting to kill him.!!And he ordered expulsion of them..Every sentence of what I wrote is verifiable from sahih hadiths..So much for being tolerant and protective of jews..

Unfortunately, there are many Hadith which are in conflict with Quran, even if they are so called Sahih Hadith they must be wrong if they are in conflict with Quran; this is because Prophet Muhammad PBUH never did anything contrary to Quran.

According to Quran there are only two conditions in which a person can be executed, as the verse says:

On account of [his deed] (Cain & Able), We decreed to the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person–– unless in retribution for murder or spreading corruption in the land –– it is as if he kills all mankind, while if any saves a life it is as if he saves the lives of all mankind.Our messengers came to them with clear signs, but many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (5:32)

Do not take life, which God has made sacred, except by right: if anyone is killed wrongfully, We have given authority to the defender of his rights, but he should not be excessive in taking life, for he is already aided [by God]. (17:33)

In the light of these two verses, there is no chance that Prophet Muhammad would have ordered the assassination.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Really...? Let me recall you of prophet muhammeds treatment of jewish tribe banu nadir.I will make it concise.
-After the constitution of medina was created there was truce between jewish tribes and muslims.It was specifically stated that things like arranging blood money is responsibility to each group only.A poet of banu nadir-ka'b bin ashraff writes poetry glorifying slain quraish of medina, Prophet muhammed has him assasinated.Note that no blood money was given by murderers nor the mastermind.Now two muslim men of medina kills people from tribe of amir, prophet muhammed wants to save the asses of muslim murderers so he goes on collecting blood money for them, Completely ignoring the charter of medina and his non payment of blood money for ka'ab, he demands contribution for blood money from banu nadir-Their reply is not written in any hadiths but it is an easy guess.Amidst this blatant mockery of justice, Prophet conveniently get the relevation that banu nadir is plotting to kill him.!!And he ordered expulsion of them..Every sentence of what I wrote is verifiable from sahih hadiths..So much for being tolerant and protective of jews..

Such a beautiful nick you got
and
yet such an ignorant post you have.

Why?


-- one tribe was punished for treason during a WAR, as per the decision of other jewish tribes. Mohammad pbuh as per Quranic teachings used torah based laws for Jewish people.

-- the rest of the Jewish tribes lived in Madina for the next 250 years, long after Mohammad pubh passed away.


Punishment of treason was performed back in 8th century. Now go find me a major gov back then who put gold and silver and jewels on those who committed treason during a war. Please!

 

[dravidianhero]

No. Whatever happened 1400 years ago did not impact palestinian Jews relationship in 1945.

Before 1945, the two communities lived side by side.

Please do not refer to religion as the source of hate.

it is the "land". that is always source of problem.

Thank you

Utter non sense.Muslims have hated Jews more than Christians ever since the invention of Islam.There are plenty of sahee hadees which picture Jews as evil.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Utter non sense.Muslims have hated Jews more than Christians ever since the invention of Islam.There are plenty of sahee hadees which picture Jews as evil.

Well you want to keep the hate alive? be my guest.

I'd have expected that with a name like "dravidian" you will be a bit more cautious about spreading hate as if the other party is "shudra" or untouchable.

But may be not. May be you took your nick for fun and in reality you believe in caste and tribe based hate and prejudice.

Who knows.

Who the forking knows these days.


p.s. many of the hadeesh came into being around 300 hundred years after Mohammad pbuh. and off course many such ahadees were used to spread hate, prejudice, and as a result kill and murder.

 

[KingMamba]

In palestine-israel conflict, religion definitely is the source of hate..Especially the traditiinal muslim hatred of "jews" purported by quran and hadiths.

It is rather simplistic to assume such a thing, while the Quran does talk negatively about historical Jews it does so referencing specific events in history that has nothing to do with the current conflict. It should be noted that the PA is a nationalistic authority and although Hamas may use religious overtones in its statements that is entirely rooted in the history of their movement.

That being said there are also positive verses about Jews and Muslim scholars do say that only Jews share the same God as us so we are a lot closer in many ways than one would think and this conflict once resolved will see things change for the better.

Really...? Let me recall you of prophet muhammeds treatment of jewish tribe banu nadir.I will make it concise.
-After the constitution of medina was created there was truce between jewish tribes and muslims.It was specifically stated that things like arranging blood money is responsibility to each group only.A poet of banu nadir-ka'b bin ashraff writes poetry glorifying slain quraish of medina, Prophet muhammed has him assasinated.Note that no blood money was given by murderers nor the mastermind.Now two muslim men of medina kills people from tribe of amir, prophet muhammed wants to save the asses of muslim murderers so he goes on collecting blood money for them, Completely ignoring the charter of medina and his non payment of blood money for ka'ab, he demands contribution for blood money from banu nadir-Their reply is not written in any hadiths but it is an easy guess.Amidst this blatant mockery of justice, Prophet conveniently get the relevation that banu nadir is plotting to kill him.!!And he ordered expulsion of them..Every sentence of what I wrote is verifiable from sahih hadiths..So much for being tolerant and protective of jews..

Really did you miss the reading of Kab al asrafs meeting with the Quraishi chiefs or do you just pick and choose which part of history you consider more accurate?

 

[dravidianhero]

Well you want to keep the hate alive? be my guest.

I'd have expected that with a name like "dravidian" you will be a bit more cautious about spreading hate as if the other party is "shudra" or untouchable.

But may be not. May be you took your nick for fun and in reality you believe in caste and tribe based hate and prejudice.

Who knows.

Who the forking knows these days.


p.s. many of the hadeesh came into being around 300 hundred years after Mohammad pbuh. and off course many such ahadees were used to spread hate, prejudice, and as a result kill and murder.

OK.let us leave hadees.Even the quraan says not to make Christians and Jews as friends.Isn't it a historical fact that Muhammad killed 700 Jews by forcing them to surrender after 4 days of siege of their village?Even Jews to this day tell that story to their kids.Hadn't Muhammad in Quran called Jews as the dwellers of hell,liars,back stabbers after they left Islam when they saw the real face of muhammad(some Jews in the beginning even converted to Islam believing Muhammad's word).When prophet himself had a lot of hatred for Jews how can the followers be any different?

 

[FaujHistorian]

OK.let us leave hadees.Even the quraan says not to make Christians and Jews as friends.

Again you talk like a 11 year old madrassah student. (really sorry to say)
If you read complete sections of Quran as a chapters, you will not find anywhere what you just said.

Utter ignorance!

If you pick one short line out of 52, and tell me you understood the whole chapter, then it is shame on me to be in your company. And shame on you for wasting your time in schools and colleges, that did not teach you how to even read with proper context.

nothing personal. I hope you understand what I am trying to get at.

.....Isn't it a historical fact that Muhammad killed 700 Jews by forcing them to surrender after 4 days of siege of their village?..?

Again! you have missed the context and military history.


I just posted earlier in bold letters and tried to address this very issue. Did you not read post number 81?

 

[KingMamba]

OK.let us leave hadees.Even the quraan says not to make Christians and Jews as friends.Isn't it a historical fact that Muhammad killed 700 Jews by forcing them to surrender after 4 days of siege of their village?Even Jews to this day tell that story to their kids.Hadn't Muhammad in Quran called Jews as the dwellers of hell,liars,back stabbers after they left Islam when they saw the real face of muhammad(some Jews in the beginning even converted to Islam believing Muhammad's word).When prophet himself had a lot of hatred for Jews how can the followers be any different?

The Quran says do not take them as allies meaning you must watch out for yourselves and your fellow brothers. Even the Prophet himself had Jewish friends. Yes Jews converted to Islam and while some did go back to Judaism a whole bunch remained Muslim even today many Arabian tribes are of Jewish ancestry and they are well aware of their ancestry.

The historical fact you talk about is funny in that you disregard that they had committed treason and were caught red handed before they were besieged. They then were taken prisoner of war. Secondly the man who sentenced them was himself a Jewish convert to Islam who was chosen by the Jewish tribe to pass judgement. Lastly which Jews tell the story to their children, I have many Jewish friends who had never even heard of the account until I myself brought it up while talking about history.

 

[dravidianhero]

Again you talk like a 11 year old madrassah student. (really sorry to say)
If you read complete sections of Quran as a chapters, you will not find anywhere what you just said.

Utter ignorance!

If you pick one short line out of 52, and tell me you understood the whole chapter, then it is shame on me to be in your company. And shame on you for wasting your time in schools and colleges, that did not teach you how to even read with proper context.

nothing personal. I hope you understand what I am trying to get at.




Again! you have missed the context and military history.


I just posted earlier in bold letters and tried to address this very issue. Did you not read post number 81?

OK you seem to be a fan of zakir nail who tries to hide behind these so called context reading.I read enough of Quran and I know what I am talking about.Anyway my posts are intended for non Muslims who want to learn about Jew islam rivalry.I know I can't change Muslims opinion who are occupied with preconceived notions and are hell bent on defending their religion with whatever irrational means and arguments they can use.
No hard feelings brother.wish you happy ramzan

 

[notsuperstitious]

The Quran says do not take them as allies meaning you must watch out for yourselves and your fellow brothers. Even the Prophet himself had Jewish friends. Yes Jews converted to Islam and while some did go back to Judaism a whole bunch remained Muslim even today many Arabian tribes are of Jewish ancestry and they are well aware of their ancestry.

The historical fact you talk about is funny in that you disregard that they had committed treason and were caught red handed before they were besieged. They then were taken prisoner of war. Secondly the man who sentenced them was himself a Jewish convert to Islam who was chosen by the Jewish tribe to pass judgement. Lastly which Jews tell the story to their children, I have many Jewish friends who had never even heard of the account until I myself brought it up while talking about history.

The jews were judged as per Torah and then masacred. Is this prescribed in the Quran? And for which people? And why is this not followed today?

 

[xyxmt]

Hi,
I am starting this thread to learn some history about Jews. Since I come here often and lot of times the discussion happen around Muslims history and Jew and their relation. I decided to watch a 3 hour documentary on Prophet Muhammad on YouTube. I got some understanding on Islam and how it came into existence. However I want to focus on Jew history in relation to Islam.

What I understood in that documentary is as follows.
1) Prophet Muhammad had to move to Medina since he faced threat from Quraesh tribe in Mecca.
2) Jews were living in Medina, more than one tribe.
3) Prophet Muhammad when he again tried to go to Medina made Quraesh unhappy and they attacked Medina.
4) Jews tribe were unhappy that their business was getting impacted hence there was a rumor that they are meeting Quraseh.
5) Prophet Muhammad fought Jews and made them leave Medina.

So, how did the Jews landed in Israel?
Since they were already in Arab land, don't you think they have ownership on Arab land.

I want to understand this in context of Israel Palestine fight and has it anything to do with what I saw?

Please treat this as purely history point of view and do not drag religion into it.

I need to know this so that I better understand your discussion.

buy an english translation of quran and it explain everything