Heckler & Koch wins tender to replace French army's FAMAS

[Norge Stronk]

True, but in a limited capacity.

Yes, but that's generally the way it's going to be with the HK417. It's unsuited for assault roles unless ported with a short barrel. Too heavy, too much recoil and too costly. Hence why we see it used primarily as a squad support weapon.

SCAR-H was designed as an assault rifle, not a battle rifle and is more suited for assault roles as a result.

Is it used as DMR mostly?

Depends on who you're asking.

Two pictures, both HK417 primaries... two different roles. One DMR. The other sniper.

Typically yes, it's a DMR and certainly for aerial gunnery, but it's also found a role with the traditional sniper.

...

Here's a few more pics of the HK417 being used in a sniper role:

And one more as a DMR:

Sorry, forgot to add this. Yes, it is .308.

 

[Vergennes]

Just a thought: the SCAR-L was always regarded as mediocre. If this was between the SCAR-H and HK-417, there is a good chance that France would have picked FN over HK.

The SCAR-H is a good weapon,but had fragile parts,recurring defects and quality defects.... several units switched to the 416.

@Norge Stronk Oh, and it seems that FN, despite doing extremely well in Pakistan's competition, may not actually be picked by the PA. Italy's ARX rifle has been doing a lot of promotion, and Italy recently started upgrading Pakistan's POF weapons factories to produce modern weapons systems and munitions.

As it is, FN is not doing so well.

By the way,FN's offer showed a lot of irregularities which were exposed by the administrative court and so their offer was eliminated.
Not adding the "bad experience" we had with FN and the Minimis....

 

[Taygibay]

I still don't know about it,maybe Tay would help you if he knows better,but I guess it's too early to know.

It is but in any case, it's not the same type of procurement that the Famas was.
The quantities are open as the 10 years can be extended.
Still, the duration is as important as the annual input of 10K after the initial thousand.

For reference, 400 000 FAMAS were made with most still in use.

HK 416 / 417 combo for everyday squad duties is fine by me.

Gute Nacht alle, Tay.

 

[Nilgiri]

For reference, 400 000 FAMAS were made with most still in use.

Yah that sounds more reasonable given French army is about 100 - 120k personnel in total....and total military is 200k roughly.

I think there will be further blocks of 416/417 after this initial one.

I was wondering where the 416s will be made?

 

[Norge Stronk]

@Norge Stronk Oh, and it seems that FN, despite doing extremely well in Pakistan's competition, may not actually be picked by the PA. Italy's ARX rifle has been doing a lot of promotion, and Italy recently started upgrading Pakistan's POF weapons factories to produce modern weapons systems and munitions.

SCAR's a nice gun, and I'm not trying to hate on it by any stretch, it's just had a lot of issues in the field. From cracking frames to problems with cold weather (dry bolt mainly, also a problem with other firearms) that requires it to be lubed constantly to prevent the bolt from locking up.

On the other side its crazy accurate, even in cold weather where the barrel heats up and cools down rapidly. The bullet goes where you want it to 9.99/10. And that's a non-winterized version.

But the Hk416 did that to and didn't have the problems of the SCAR. The Hk416 was also cheaper and lighter.

I'm actually very curious to see the result of Pakistan's trials. Especially altitude and weather.

That's partly why Pakistanis wanted the 417 to enter Pakistan's current rifle competition to replace the G3.

Now, partially because I've used it during my service and thus am biased towards it, the HK417 is a logical choice as a successor for the G3 if you're going to continue with a military predicated on precision fire and distance rather then volume fire.

In fact...

It partially replaced our AG3s, though our main service rifle is the HK416.

 

[Path-Finder]

ah wicked. Silly question but would the foreign legion be among the first to receive new rifles?

 

[Taygibay]

One of the reasons why we have to be patient is Félin,
That system of enhanced combat with high network has
parts on the Famas that need to be ported.
Another is the integrated units that perform SF task at
battaillon / regiment / brigade level in the French Armed
Forces. These embedded units will likely get served first.
ETC.

GN, Tay.

 

[Norge Stronk]

One of the reasons why we have to be patient is Félin,
That system of enhanced combat with high network has
parts on the Famas that need to be ported.

Has this not been done in SOF units? They're kind of Guinea Pigs testing gear before it's passed onto regular or home guard/national guard units.

@Vergennes @Taygibay what's the standard loadout on a French Army rifle look like? What attachments can we likely expect to see on the upcoming 416s? This is standard in the Norwegian Army:

Grenade launchers are optional for qualified personal:

Contrasted with the kit special forces units like this MJK operative pack - that's an HK416K carbine:

I know you already told me we don't yet know what's being bought on AMF, @Vergennes but I think we can at least get a good picture of what's likely to be included based on past loadouts.

 

[Vergennes]

Has this not been done in SOF units? They're kind of Guinea Pigs testing gear before it's passed onto regular or home guard/national guard units.

@Vergennes @Taygibay what's the standard loadout on a French Army rifle look like? What attachments can we likely expect to see on the upcoming 416s? This is standard in the Norwegian Army:

Grenade launchers are optional for qualified personal:

Contrasted with the kit special forces units like this MJK operative pack - that's an HK416K carbine:

I know you already told me we don't yet know what's being bought on AMF, @Vergennes but I think we can at least get a good picture of what's likely to be included based on past loadouts.

We can speculate of course.

I expect an Eotec sight + an HK assault grip 237858.

The french 416,would most likely look like this ;

One of the reasons why we have to be patient is Félin,
That system of enhanced combat with high network has
parts on the Famas that need to be ported.
Another is the integrated units that perform SF task at
battaillon / regiment / brigade level in the French Armed
Forces. These embedded units will likely get served first.
ETC.

GN, Tay.

Safran recently rolled out a Félin-based soldier ensemble for international customers.
This picture should give us an overview of what a "félinisé" 416 could look like. (here an M4).

 

[srshkmr]

The gun looks lovely <3 ..

I wonder when will the Indian Army going to replace their rifles :/

 

[Nilgiri]

The gun looks lovely <3 ..

I wonder when will the Indian Army going to replace their rifles :/

@Water Car Engineer can give you a really brief summary on it

 

[Vergennes]

The gun looks lovely <3 ..

I wonder when will the Indian Army going to replace their rifles :/

@Water Car Engineer can give you a really brief summary on it

He would most likely reply ;

It's pretty clear.

 

[Taygibay]

Vergennes got it although I hate that grip.
I'd rather have it smaller or even none when
the lower rail is free.

What we may add could be a full Félin kit of today with Famas.
There are many options and layers, the former being rare in Fr.F.

So :

Old school

And various pieced formats of today

​

So the version by Vergennes is the standard found in middle and background guys in those
pics or that of the exercise top pic.

I don't expect major problems but it does impact deliveries unless the Felin format
was used already with 416s by SF and the operational capacity thus already cleared.

Great day all, Tay.

 

[Norge Stronk]

@Water Car Engineer can give you a really brief summary on it

Does India favor smaller calibers like 5.56 or 5.45 or does it lean more towards intermediate rounds like 7.62?

Following some developments, I noticed they're trying to make an all-in-one rifle that can use either.

But from my experience, in the field you aren't going to be swapping barrels from 5.56 to 7.62 or carrying two different rounds, save for those of your primary and sidearm.

It's an interesting approach, though I'm not sure it's the best course to explore.

Safran recently rolled out a Félin-based soldier ensemble for international customers.
This picture should give us an overview of what a "félinisé" 416 could look like. (here an M4).

View attachment 337457

Looks nice. That's exactly what I was looking for. If Félin is integrated with the HK416, it'll likely resemble this setup.

 

[Nilgiri]

Does India favor smaller calibers like 5.56 or 5.45 or does it lean more towards intermediate rounds like 7.62?

Following some developments, I noticed they're trying to make an all-in-one rifle that can use either.

But from my experience, in the field you aren't going to be swapping barrels from 5.56 to 7.62 or carrying two different rounds, save for those of your primary and sidearm.

It's an interesting approach, though I'm not sure it's the best course to explore.



Looks nice. That's exactly what I was looking for. If Félin is integrated with the HK416, it'll likely resemble this setup.

I think counter insurgency guys prefer the heavier stopping power of the .308 or its ruskie equivalent.

Regular army it varies on the operation. I dont think they plan to really do much field swapping in combat, but more to have one platform capable of two calibers before operations commence etc and go with which one makes more sense.

But this stuff is hard to get your head around so I have no idea where stuff stands....it has gotten quite confusing because the army people keep shifting the goalposts.