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Has "All Time Mazlooms of Pakistan" Mohsin Dawar, Manzoor Pashteen, Ali Wazir or Mama Qadeer Baloch Said Any Thing about Israeli Genocide in Gaza?

Goritoes said:
Sure, but who is a disbeliever ? Anyone who disbelieve in God or associate partners with Allah, even the Pagans of Mecca has the concept of a God, rest are daughters of God. And yet Quran called them disbelievers, my understanding of 12ver Shia's is that they are not believers, but close to to Pagan of Mecca where they elevated the 12 Imams as demi Gods who can Answer prayers, who will determine ones fate on the scale in Judgement day and all, As I said I don't come to my conclusion on empty farts, I read/watch videos from those who have understanding of language and Islamic theology and than make my decision. Shia's can call themselves Muslims I have no issue with them, even Qadiyani call themselves Muslims, Nation of Islam call themselves Muslims, there are Gay clerics in West call themselves Muslims , even ISIS/AQ scums call themselves Muslims, even the Hypocrites of Median/Mecca called themselves Muslims, but does that make them " One " ? Nope.
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It's not a matter of your understanding of Islam, or anyone else's for that matter. These verses explicitly refer to those who openly or secretly express their disbelief. I encourage you to read these verses carefully and seek forgiveness and guidance from Allah.
 
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Oh man, I can say so much but then I will be labeled even if I give examples form holy Quran. So I will be silent as it is the best policy when arguing with ignorance. May Allah guide us all on the right path.
 
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M. Sarmad said:
Exercise caution, mate. That verse (2:18) specifically addresses open disbelievers (2:6) and self-admitted rejectors/ hypocrites (2:14). Applying these verses to anyone who is a believer, irrespective of their understanding of Islam, amounts to a rejection of the Quran itself.
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You are talking nonsense......

Anyone who is openly disbeliever is a Kafir....

A secret disbiliever is a Munafiq.....

Both have fire of hell waiting for them.... What do u want to prove ?
 
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M. Sarmad said:
It's not a matter of your understanding of Islam, or anyone else's for that matter. These verses explicitly refer to those who openly or secretly express their disbelief. I encourage you to read these verses carefully and seek forgiveness and guidance from Allah.
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The person you are arguing with has also labeled ALL PASHTUNS AND BALOCHIS AS terrorists lol. Guess what? Majority of them are what will fall in his definition as Muslims. You can’t make this shit up. This guy is a very frustrated and complexed soul. He calls his countrymen as bad but then rear ends a white mans car and submits lol. I’m done with this shit.
 
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Gorgin Khan said:
You are talking nonsense......
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I'm merely quoting verses from the Quran—refer to 2:6 and 2:14. Unless you genuinely believe that your understanding of Islam surpasses Allah's wisdom, your argument holds no merit.

Sectarian hatred seems to have clouded your judgment to the extent of rejecting the Quran. May Allah guide us all.
 
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Goritoes said:
No it doesn't, I may not be a Panch waqta Namazi aur the Ideal Musalmaan but I don't innovate in religion, 6 Articles of Faith and 5 Pillars of Islam are well defined, deen has been completed. There are well defined boundaries in Islam which can makes you a Non Muslim, and for the very very very very very least, I don't sit or go to Parties where Sahabah and Mother of Believers are Abused, while the braindead charged crowd enjoy and celebrate. So yeah we are not in same boat, not even close.
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You need to shut your mouth and stop using quranic verses .... And leave it to the ones who have better understanding of tafseer and fiqh...... If your are not a namazi shut ur mouth and improve yourself.....the same pillar u talk about u are destroying.... So be a muslim first.... Stop discuss religion with ur half headed knowledge.... I am not a namazi but but i will give fatwas... **** ur self...
 
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Mustang125 said:
The person you are arguing with has also labeled ALL PASHTUNS AND BALOCHIS AS terrorists lol. Guess what? Majority of them are what will fall in his definition as Muslims. You can’t make this shit up. This guy is a very frustrated and complexed soul. He calls his countrymen as bad but then rear ends a white mans car and submits lol. I’m done with this shit.
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I'm aware, but since he asserts to be a fellow believer and has referenced the Quran, I believe it is our responsibility to highlight the evident errors in his expressed standpoint
 
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M. Sarmad said:
It's not a matter of your understanding of Islam, or anyone else's for that matter. These verses explicitly refer to those who openly or secretly express their disbelief. I encourage you to read these verses carefully and seek forgiveness and guidance from Allah.
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I literally explained to you what Disbelieve is, of course a huge Part of Quran is beyond my full understanding which I have no shame in accepting but even scholars who are studying Quran for decades sometimes left scratching their heads over a verse. I am not associating the verse explicitly to Shia, I am using the verse in context of blind followers of Shiaism or Qadiyani or Nation of Islam, you can claim to be a Muslim but can be a Disbeliever, and Quran/Hadith/History can be tricky and hard to understand but innovation within Islam is separate, made up lies and stories to incite hate for Sahabah and Mother of Believers and associating attributes of Allah to a Mortal Human also can put you in disbelieve, Hence the verse can be applied on a pure linguistic sense. Deaf, lots of people are deaf when it comes to hearing the words that are coming from their mouths or the mouths of people they follow, I call those Shia's deaf who sits in Majalis where Sahabah and Mothers of Believers are abused. Dumb well only a Dumb person can follow something a religion or cult who consider abusing Sahabah and wives of Prophet of Allah and yet still consider themselves to be " Muslim ", and Blind no matter how much educational material you can show them, they won't see it cause they are too blind either by hate or by choice...

One of the best thing I like about Quran is that it asks its reader to use their intellect, and reflect and yet we don't see much of that in Shia's and to a larger extend in Sunni's as well, or Muslims in General, sometimes the information you need to understand something is clear as a day, you don't need to read between lines or this or that...

There is one God (Allah), Prophet Muhammad Pbuh is last messenger, I don't need a scholar or read between lines to understand and believe in that, there are no Imam's after Prophet, nor Allah has given any authority to any Imam let alone the handpicked 12, again not very hard to understand, the differences between the Sahabah was purely over the leadership after prophet, it was a political disagreement shows that they are no infallible, but they were still brothers and they lived by it and died over that. I don't care about the made stories in your religion, you can worship and do Sajdah to Ali RA if you want to, but then don't insult others who call you a disbeliever, if I worship Muhammad pbuh I become a Disbeliever, so for the least part I am still better than most or majority Shia who consider Ali RA some demi god and created a entire religion surrounding his personality. And on top of that, when someone corrects them, than suddenly we become enemies of Ahle byat, how and why? What do I get in return ? do I have to be an enemy of Ali RA/Hasan RA/Hussain RA just to call someone's disbelief ? Shia's are lucky that Ali RA is not around cause he would the first one to execute majority of Shia's for the abuse and pagan practices that are done in his name,

Gorgin Khan said:
You need to shut your mouth and stop using quranic verses .... And leave it to the ones who have better understanding of tafseer and fiqh...... If your are not a namazi shut ur mouth and improve yourself.....the same pillar u talk about u are destroying.... So be a muslim first.... Stop discuss religion with ur half headed knowledge.... I am not a namazi but but i will give fatwas... **** ur self...
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1700519314136.png
 
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M. Sarmad said:
I'm merely quoting verses from the Quran—refer to 2:6 and 2:14. Unless you genuinely believe that your understanding of Islam surpasses Allah's wisdom, your argument holds no merit.

Sectarian hatred seems to have clouded your judgment to the extent of rejecting the Quran. May Allah guide us all.
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If you guys are the judges we are doomed ..... La hawle wala quwwa...
 
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Gorgin Khan said:
If you guys are the judges we are doomed ..... La hawle wala quwwa...
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Bhai, yeh internet hai Idhar sab chalta hai, these people are keyboard warriors that’s all. Thankfully our ulemas are about unity and not hatred as is shown here. To be honest when I first joined pdf and saw this type of drivel I was also in shock that how can people believe or think liken that. Now I am more relaxed because internet hai jitni bakchodi karni hai karlo, I can guarantee you that in real life if you meet the same people they will be different 😂

I love you all no matter how much you hate me or shias with your centuries old stereotypes and illogical facts!
 
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Goritoes said:
I literally explained to you what Disbelieve is, of course a huge Part of Quran is beyond my full understanding which I have no shame in accepting but even scholars who are studying Quran for decades sometimes left scratching their heads over a verse. I am not associating the verse explicitly to Shia, I am using the verse in context of blind followers of Shiaism or Qadiyani or Nation of Islam, you can claim to be a Muslim but can be a Disbeliever, and Quran/Hadith/History can be tricky and hard to understand but innovation within Islam is separate, made up lies and stories to incite hate for Sahabah and Mother of Believers and associating attributes of Allah to a Mortal Human also can put you in disbelieve, Hence the verse can be applied on a pure linguistic sense. Deaf, lots of people are deaf when it comes to hearing the words that are coming from their mouths or the mouths of people they follow, I call those Shia's deaf who sits in Majalis where Sahabah and Mothers of Believers are abused. Dumb well only a Dumb person can follow something a religion or cult who consider abusing Sahabah and wives of Prophet of Allah and yet still consider themselves to be " Muslim ", and Blind no matter how much educational material you can show them, they won't see it cause they are too blind either by hate or by choice...

One of the best thing I like about Quran is that it asks its reader to use their intellect, and reflect and yet we don't see much of that in Shia's and to a larger extend in Sunni's as well, or Muslims in General, sometimes the information you need to understand something is clear as a day, you don't need to read between lines or this or that...

There is one God (Allah), Prophet Muhammad Pbuh is last messenger, I don't need a scholar or read between lines to understand and believe in that, there are no Imam's after Prophet, nor Allah has given any authority to any Imam let alone the handpicked 12, again not very hard to understand, the differences between the Sahabah was purely over the leadership after prophet, it was a political disagreement shows that they are no infallible, but they were still brothers and they lived by it and died over that. I don't care about the made stories in your religion, you can worship and do Sajdah to Ali RA if you want to, but then don't insult others who call you a disbeliever, if I worship Muhammad pbuh I become a Disbeliever, so for the least part I am still better than most or majority Shia who consider Ali RA some demi god and created a entire religion surrounding his personality. And on top of that, when someone corrects them, than suddenly we become enemies of Ahle byat, how and why? What do I get in return ? do I have to be an enemy of Ali RA/Hasan RA/Hussain RA just to call someone's disbelief ? Shia's are lucky that Ali RA is not around cause he would the first one to execute majority of Shia's for the abuse and pagan practices that are done in his name,


View attachment 1030522
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Once again, my friend, it's not about your interpretation of "Kafir." It is explicitly stated in 2:4 that the disbelievers or Kafir referred to in 2:6 are those who reject what has been revealed to the prophet (i.e., the Quran), disbelieve in what was revealed before the Quran, and lack faith in the Hereafter. Now, sincerely tell me, how could any of this be applied to Shia? (or any other sect of Muslims for that matter)

Gorgin Khan said:
If you guys are the judges we are doomed ..... La hawle wala quwwa...
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Had no intention to pass judgment,

Perhaps I misconstrued your post,

And you misinterpreted mine.
 
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M. Sarmad said:
Once again, my friend, it's not about your interpretation of "Kafir." It is explicitly stated in 2:4 that the disbelievers or Kafir referred to in 2:6 are those who reject what has been revealed to the prophet (i.e., the Quran), disbelieve in what was revealed before the Quran, and lack faith in the Hereafter. Now, sincerely tell me, how could any of this be applied to Shia? (or any other sect of Muslims for that matter)
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I will get back to you, but not on this thread, this is not the right place... plus i have to make Aaloo Gosht :D
 
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