Hamza Ali Abbasi take on homosexuality

[VCheng]

Yes, purely in legal terms this is correct.

However we are living in US driven civilization (similar to Greek or Roman ones), and thus we are impacted by fashion, research, technology, politics, medicine, etc. etc. etc. that mostly originates from USA and the close allies of USA.

This in turn makes us walk, talk, dress, eat, and yes live as close as possible to the American way.

By choice Sir, by your own choice. You can always choose to walk away.

you are being sarcastic. Right?

You think?

 

[FaujHistorian]

By choice Sir, by your own choice. You can always choose to walk away.

Sure on individual basis.

But all the standards, living, working are setup by those who lead a civilization.

So you may decide to live in a cave, but majority will not. Economic system good or bad forces majority to change and adapt.

Peace

 

[VCheng]

Sure on individual basis.

But all the standards, living, working are setup by those who lead a civilization.

So you may decide to live in a cave, but majority will not. Economic system good or bad forces majority to change and adapt.

Peace

So when do we all start learning Chinese?

 

[FaujHistorian]

So when do we all start learning Chinese?

Post #17 in
The American addiction to war | Page 2

 

[VCheng]

Post #17 in
The American addiction to war | Page 2

I read that already. So may be the Chinese will still need to learn Engrish for a few decades more, at least?

 

[Hyperion]

Dude, in a decade or so, you'll be the one needing to 'learn' Chinese, not the other way around...... and I'm highly confident that you won't be able to......... even in a century....

So may be the Chinese will still need to learn Engrish for a few decades more, at least?

 

[FaujHistorian]

I read that already. So may be the Chinese will still need to learn Engrish for a few decades more, at least?

Learning English is only a tiny step.

Major areas in Pakistan and India have used English for at least one or more centuries.

All big name leaders got their degrees in Law from Britain

And even today, you ever wonder (and thus know) why no one asks about the lack of peer based jury system in our courts?

Jury system by the way is major component of Anglosaxon law.

Do you know why? Our people are blind followers, and technicians for the West instead of being innovators in social and political systems.


p.s. coming to your point, Chinese will need to learn English then spend many many decades adopting social and political systems. Many decades if not centuries.

I do not see even one Edmund Burke or Thomas Payne in China trying to interpret social and political rules. And I do follow them closely.

 

[Vassnti]

I don't get what the big deal is. New Zealand legalized gay marriage last year. Where were all these people then?

Because most of the world doesnt even know where NZ is and cares less.

Because sheep rights are a bigger thing for Kiwis than Gay rights

Lets face it you have two nice guys/girls live next door what difference does it make to anyone but them how many bedrooms they sleep in?

 

[KingMamba]

Homosexuality is a mental disease, always was and always will be. Even in America the APA listed homosexuality as a mental disorder for 23 years until they changed their minds due to political pressure. Meaning there was never any definitive finding that led to its change in status but rather bitching and moaning from libtards and fags who had gained political leverage.

they would want them slaughtered


they should for their own sake

For society's sake as well, the Russians were wisest they allow them to run around but reject allowing them to influence society or corrupt children.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

For society's sake as well, the Russians were wisest they allow them to run around but reject allowing them to influence society or corrupt children.

that the way it should be
no pride prades
no adoption no marriage
what they do indoors is none of our buisness

 

[Biplab Bijay]

According to his Facebook post, the legalisation of gay marriages is an attempt to “make normal and natural what is abnormal and un-natural”.

The original post was then edited to add that “Gay marriage does not mean ‘human equality’. Stop mutilating the concepts of human equality and justice.”

Though Hamza did not explain his concept of human equality and justice, any lay person with even some very basic common sense would know that equality is about having the freedom to go about one’s own choices without being considered an outcast. On the contatry, Hamza mutilated the concept of human equality and justice with his strong biases in his own post.

The post was again edited to add another line: “Tolerance means tolerating something…not celebrating it.”

The definition of tolerance and celebration remain very subjective. Tolerance means tolerating with or without necessarily having to accept something and celebrating shows certain acceptance. He is right considering the denotations of the two words but why dictate people what to tolerate and what to celebrate, for that too is very subjective.

The post was re-re-re-edited to add that Hamza’s heart sank at the innocent question of his nephew inquiring about the meaning of gay.

Let us just hope that we all have the intellectual neutrality to explain things to the younger generation without strongly attaching our opinions that may, in some way, divert their course of thought. Let us let them learn things and decide what’s right or not. Let us treat their intellect with equality and give them freedom to make their own choices in making a distinction between right and wrong.

The post was edited again to add that legalisation of gay marriages equate to legalising and celebrating incest.

We’ll just wait for the post to be edited again for the umpteenth time to see if Hamza explains the correlation between incest and homosexuality or we shall leave it to your better judgment.

Incest is legalized, dont you think ? like cousin marriage etc.

Hamza Ali Abbasi

My heart sank when my 12 yr old nephew asked me what is gay? and why are people celebrating gay marriage being legal in US? I am really sorry but i am disappointed at people in Pakistan celebrating a behaviour which is taboo even in animals. I wont hate you if you are gay but i will certainly NOT CELEBRATE IT. Stop trying to justify homosexuality under the banner of "universal love". And please, we have bigger issues in the world and in our own country than trying to make normal and natural what is abnormal and un-natural. Gay marriage does not mean "human equality". Stop mutilating the concepts of human equality and justice. Tolerance means tolerating something...not celebrating it. Whats next? Legalising and celebrating incest?

Incest is legalized and celebrated, dont you think ? like cousin marriages etc.

 

[VCheng]

A great read:

An Open Letter To American Muslims on Same-Sex Marriage | Religion Dispatches

AN OPEN LETTER TO AMERICAN MUSLIMS ON SAME-SEX MARRIAGE
BY REZA ASLAN AND HASAN MINHAJ JULY 7, 2015



To Our Fellow American Muslims,

Hey there. It’s two of your brothers. We’re writing to you about the Supreme Court’s decision to legalize gay marriage in all fifty states. The good news is that a whopping 42% of you support marriage equality, as do both of our Muslim elected officials in the United States Congress. One even serves as vice chair of the LGBT Equality Caucus! There are many faithful gay and lesbian Muslims in the US and we love and support all of them.

At the same time, many of you are scandalized by the ruling (we know because you keep tweeting about it), and many more of you are equally perturbed but have chosen to keep it to yourself. With all the rainbow-flag waving and self-congratulatory pats on the back this country is giving itself right now, you don’t need another reason for Americans to dislike you.

Sure Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee can call the Supreme Court decision the precursor to the End of Days and the final battle of Armageddon. But if you try saying something like that on TV you may end up in Guantanamo. So you’re staying quiet. You may not like the Supreme Court’s decision but you’re willing to tolerate it.

We understand where you’re coming from. Being Muslim in America is not easy. On the one hand you’re a part of mainstream culture. You’re a Warriors fan. You listen to Kanye. You watch Game of Thrones. You even went to the office Christmas party and sang Silent Night!

On the other hand, you want to stay true to your faith and traditions: You go to the mosque and send your kids to Islamic school, fast during Ramadan, and swap Turkey bacon on your BLT, all in an attempt to establish a firm Muslim identity in a non-Muslim country.

But now that same-sex marriage is legal in America, it’s shaking up your faith. You’re afraid of the future and what this could mean for your kids. You recognize the growing acceptance of gay rights, but personally you just can’t bring yourself to embrace the shift. You may feel okay with having gay acquaintances or coworkers. You may even agree that being gay doesn’t disqualify you from also being a Muslim. But privately, you still feel like the LGBT community is a living contradiction to what you were brought up to believe.

But here’s the thing. When you are an underrepresented minority—whether Muslim, African American, female, etc.—democracy is an all or nothing business. You fight for everyone’s rights (and the operative word here is “fight”), or you get none for yourself. Democracy isn’t a buffet. You can’t pick and choose which civil liberties apply to which people. Either we are all equal, or the whole thing is just a sham.

We Muslims are already a deeply marginalized people in mainstream American culture. More than half of Americans have a negative view of us. One-third of Americans—that’s more than one hundred million people—want us to carry special IDs so that they can easily identify us as Muslim. We shouldn’t be perpetuating our marginalization by marginalizing others. Rejecting the right to same-sex marriage, but then expecting empathy for our community’s struggle, is hypocritical.

Think about the way people look at your hijabi sister or your bearded brother when they walk through the mall. Think about the grumbles and stares you get at airports. Think about the vitriol that’s spewed on you by your own elected political leaders. That’s how your LGBT brothers and sisters feel every day of their lives. Are you okay with that?

We don’t know about you, but our faith teaches us to care for the weak and the marginalized, the poor and dispossessed, those who are trampled underfoot, those who are persecuted—no matter who they are, no matter what they believe, no matter who they choose to love.

“Believers, stand firm for God, be witnesses for justice. Never allow the hatred of people to prevent you from being just. Be just, for this is closest to righteousness” (Quran 5:8).

It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

You may think LGBT rights is a new conversation, something that’s only recently come into contact with modern Islamic thought, but trust us, it’s not. Challenging the status quo for the betterment of society is one of the very foundations on which Islam was built.

No one is asking you to change your beliefs. If you feel your faith tells you that homosexuality is haram, fine. We disagree with your interpretation, but you’re entitled to it.

Ain’t America grand?

But if you can’t find it in your heart to accept gays on principle, think about the country you want to live in. After all, the constitution that just ensured the rights of LGBT communities is the same constitution that protects our mosques and community centers, that keeps our Islamic schools open, that allows us equal rights and privileges in the face overwhelming hatred and bigotry from our fellow Americans. You can’t celebrate one without the other.

That’s why it’s not enough to simply “tolerate” the Supreme Court decision. Tolerating another community only stirs up concealed fear toward the marginalized and apathy toward the political process. As minorities we don’t have the luxury to have either of those emotions. We have to do more than tolerate. We have to embrace. We have to fight for the right of others to live their lives as freely as we want to live ours.

Bottom line is this: standing up for marginalized communities, even when you disagree with them, is not just the right thing to do, it’s the Muslim thing to do. Remember that whole God is merciful and compassionate thing? That extends to all people, not just those who are straight.

Celebrate. Don’t tolerate. Love really does win.

Yours Truly,

Reza Aslan and Hasan Minhaj

 

[KingMamba]

A great read:

An Open Letter To American Muslims on Same-Sex Marriage | Religion Dispatches

AN OPEN LETTER TO AMERICAN MUSLIMS ON SAME-SEX MARRIAGE
BY REZA ASLAN AND HASAN MINHAJ JULY 7, 2015



To Our Fellow American Muslims,

Hey there. It’s two of your brothers. We’re writing to you about the Supreme Court’s decision to legalize gay marriage in all fifty states. The good news is that a whopping 42% of you support marriage equality, as do both of our Muslim elected officials in the United States Congress. One even serves as vice chair of the LGBT Equality Caucus! There are many faithful gay and lesbian Muslims in the US and we love and support all of them.

At the same time, many of you are scandalized by the ruling (we know because you keep tweeting about it), and many more of you are equally perturbed but have chosen to keep it to yourself. With all the rainbow-flag waving and self-congratulatory pats on the back this country is giving itself right now, you don’t need another reason for Americans to dislike you.

Sure Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee can call the Supreme Court decision the precursor to the End of Days and the final battle of Armageddon. But if you try saying something like that on TV you may end up in Guantanamo. So you’re staying quiet. You may not like the Supreme Court’s decision but you’re willing to tolerate it.

We understand where you’re coming from. Being Muslim in America is not easy. On the one hand you’re a part of mainstream culture. You’re a Warriors fan. You listen to Kanye. You watch Game of Thrones. You even went to the office Christmas party and sang Silent Night!

On the other hand, you want to stay true to your faith and traditions: You go to the mosque and send your kids to Islamic school, fast during Ramadan, and swap Turkey bacon on your BLT, all in an attempt to establish a firm Muslim identity in a non-Muslim country.

But now that same-sex marriage is legal in America, it’s shaking up your faith. You’re afraid of the future and what this could mean for your kids. You recognize the growing acceptance of gay rights, but personally you just can’t bring yourself to embrace the shift. You may feel okay with having gay acquaintances or coworkers. You may even agree that being gay doesn’t disqualify you from also being a Muslim. But privately, you still feel like the LGBT community is a living contradiction to what you were brought up to believe.

But here’s the thing. When you are an underrepresented minority—whether Muslim, African American, female, etc.—democracy is an all or nothing business. You fight for everyone’s rights (and the operative word here is “fight”), or you get none for yourself. Democracy isn’t a buffet. You can’t pick and choose which civil liberties apply to which people. Either we are all equal, or the whole thing is just a sham.

We Muslims are already a deeply marginalized people in mainstream American culture. More than half of Americans have a negative view of us. One-third of Americans—that’s more than one hundred million people—want us to carry special IDs so that they can easily identify us as Muslim. We shouldn’t be perpetuating our marginalization by marginalizing others. Rejecting the right to same-sex marriage, but then expecting empathy for our community’s struggle, is hypocritical.

Think about the way people look at your hijabi sister or your bearded brother when they walk through the mall. Think about the grumbles and stares you get at airports. Think about the vitriol that’s spewed on you by your own elected political leaders. That’s how your LGBT brothers and sisters feel every day of their lives. Are you okay with that?

We don’t know about you, but our faith teaches us to care for the weak and the marginalized, the poor and dispossessed, those who are trampled underfoot, those who are persecuted—no matter who they are, no matter what they believe, no matter who they choose to love.

“Believers, stand firm for God, be witnesses for justice. Never allow the hatred of people to prevent you from being just. Be just, for this is closest to righteousness” (Quran 5:8).

It doesn’t get any clearer than that.

You may think LGBT rights is a new conversation, something that’s only recently come into contact with modern Islamic thought, but trust us, it’s not. Challenging the status quo for the betterment of society is one of the very foundations on which Islam was built.

No one is asking you to change your beliefs. If you feel your faith tells you that homosexuality is haram, fine. We disagree with your interpretation, but you’re entitled to it.

Ain’t America grand?

But if you can’t find it in your heart to accept gays on principle, think about the country you want to live in. After all, the constitution that just ensured the rights of LGBT communities is the same constitution that protects our mosques and community centers, that keeps our Islamic schools open, that allows us equal rights and privileges in the face overwhelming hatred and bigotry from our fellow Americans. You can’t celebrate one without the other.

That’s why it’s not enough to simply “tolerate” the Supreme Court decision. Tolerating another community only stirs up concealed fear toward the marginalized and apathy toward the political process. As minorities we don’t have the luxury to have either of those emotions. We have to do more than tolerate. We have to embrace. We have to fight for the right of others to live their lives as freely as we want to live ours.

Bottom line is this: standing up for marginalized communities, even when you disagree with them, is not just the right thing to do, it’s the Muslim thing to do. Remember that whole God is merciful and compassionate thing? That extends to all people, not just those who are straight.

Celebrate. Don’t tolerate. Love really does win.

Yours Truly,

Reza Aslan and Hasan Minhaj

Lost respect for Reza Aslan, as for Hasan minhaj isn't he a comedian? These clowns want us to sacrifice our beliefs so that "others do not have another reason to dislike you". To that I say LOL.

Incest is legalized, dont you think ? like cousin marriage etc.


Incest is legalized and celebrated, dont you think ? like cousin marriages etc.

Cousin marriage is not incest although it should be discouraged since it comes close enough that it affects the next generation if practiced continuously. In other words cousin marriage is not a moral issue.

 

[Biplab Bijay]

Lost respect for Reza Aslan, as for Hasan minhaj isn't he a comedian? These clowns want us to sacrifice our beliefs so that "others do not have another reason to dislike you". To that I say LOL.



Cousin marriage is not incest although it should be discouraged since it comes close enough that it affects the next generation if practiced continuously. In other words cousin marriage is not a moral issue.

This what wiki pedia says .
"
Incest is sexual activity between family members or close relatives.[1][2] This typically includes sexual activity between people in a consanguineous relationship (blood relations), and sometimes those related by affinity, such as individuals of the same household, step relatives, those related by adoption or marriage, or members of the same clan or lineage.[3] "
Cousin marriage is incest. And its a moral issue too.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I don't think it is fair to make people suffer for things we don't understand. At a personal level I think it's genetic and not some 'deviant behavior'. I for one don't want anyone to suffer for things they are genetically inclined to. I support gay people's rights to live with dignity, and if it involves marriage, so be it.

Lost respect for Reza Aslan, as for Hasan minhaj isn't he a comedian? These clowns want us to sacrifice our beliefs so that "others do not have another reason to dislike you". To that I say LOL.



Cousin marriage is not incest although it should be discouraged since it comes close enough that it affects the next generation if practiced continuously. In other words cousin marriage is not a moral issue.

When your belief goes against this....'it' always wins and your belief loses. .ALWAYS.