HAL to provide IAF with 83 Tejas fighters in Rs 39k cr deal

[Sulemanms202]

no you dumb wit... i am saying circulation to multiply your GDP wont work becuase:

1. raw material and labour in some shape would still be imported; though assembling cost would be in Rs.
2. importantly, if assembly and manufacturing is with collabration(which it most certainly) is then multipiers wont work.

thats why i am saying let it achieve some scalability then we can judge but by look at radar and engine origins, not looking good as far as multipliers are concerned and since it is already way too overpriced i think it is not a good deal for India if iam indian i'd buy more rafaele with more EW and EC capabilitiy. Thats the only way!

all else, f15, f16, f18... all are gonna cost you your whole economy!

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

But a major portion of your JF-17 costs would go to the Chinese while in this case, most of the money still remains in India and is circulated among Indian suppliers


HAL is already delivering the Tejas Mk-1's while this deal is for Mk-1A. Now that Su-30 production line is coming to a close, it should be modified to increase the production rate of LCA

Tejas have more than half of its components imported from other countries.

 

[Gadkari]

How much is the deal in USD ? 39 K cr

Around 5.46 Billion USD.

 

[Indos]

Around 5.46 Billion USD.

Quite reasonable price for 83 planes.

 

[ziaulislam]

It is, but the money goes to HAL.

Which in turn pays Indian vendors who provide most of the aircraft components.

So its expensive only for IAF, not for India on the whole.

Then again its the cheapest option for IAF including the Grippen which comes with many hidden costs.

And than those rich vendors go and do bollywood style weeding in turkey or import luxury items
World economy is connected

Anyway 20 million is just the cost of engine & radar both foreign

 

[Gadkari]

Quite reasonable price for 83 planes.

Especially when you consider the potential for upgrades and the minimal time and cost that would entail.

Also not to mention the fact that it will carry BVR Astra missile which is 1/10th the cost of its competitors. Same with every other Indian ammunition.

Its cost benefit ratio is just Amazing for the IAF.

And than those rich vendors go and do bollywood style weeding in turkey or import luxury items
World economy is connected

Anyway 20 million is just the cost of engine & radar both foreign

Vendors spend money on procuring raw materials and paying for labor, electricity, taxes etc.

Radar is made in BEL, India, under licence.

 

[ziaulislam]

Frankly, the LCA project helped us develop an aeronautical ecosystem in India despite it's long timeline and missed project deadlines unlike JF-17 where the entire fuselages come from China along with kitted sub-systems. This would definitely enable us to fastrack the developmental process of future projects like MWF, TEDBF & AMCA. No wonder, the full scale model of MWF came up at such a quick pace

Secondly, don't ever rely on the costs of aircrafts that show up on wiki. For instance, Su-30MKI costs us around $45mn while your listed price per your post is $37mn since there are a lot of additional and unseen costs which only pop up when you start building/procuring them along with a ton of additional weaponary/sub-systems package. For instance, the cost of Malaysia's Su-30MKM is listed as $35-53mn which involves all the cost of weapons package/training/maintenance facilities set-up etc

There is no comparison ..
Jf17 is joint venture and LCA is india led project ..

As for front fuselage its not difficult to manufacture part of front fuselage if u r manufacturing rest 65% of the frame.
Jf17 is a comerical product first PAC joined because it thought it will make profit out of it..so far it has been half right with decent sales to nigeria myanmar ..PAC got it 60% manfactured

As fot cost india would have done FAR better for just buying gripen under tot..
LCA two major subsytems like radar and engine are imported anyway ..

Tejas Mk-1A will be using Uttam AESA Radar, GE-404 engine and avionics/EW suit from BEL/BDL - Hyderabad. Primary BVRAAM's would be Astra & Derby

Is uttam confirmed for this batch..wasnt it isareli elta..has that deal been cancelled

PAF doesnt has IAF resources it would have never paid 70m for LCA size aircraft ..
Hell it didnt paid 70m for f16 (which is twice size of LCA)

 

[Nilgiri]

As fot cost india would have done FAR better for just buying gripen under tot..

Yah we should have taken such advice and just "import" with "TOT" everything regarding IT, pharma, engineering and so on....so we would be stuck with market cap of triple or even double digit billion lol....and perpetual need of bailouts for even tiny foreign debt piles....forever stuck on consumption and no supply because of import-import-import mentality.

Same can be applied for nuclear and space too I guess. Just import and "TOT".... ISRO would just be doing few screwdriver SUPARCO-style sounding rockets I suppose.....leave the big stuff for only those that can! Just buy it, its great, dont develop nuthin by applying any brain power.

Really we don't need any lecture/advice from a "military with a country" entity on these matters. You file a dozen patents at USPTO yearly compared to our thousands for a reason....lets not even go to science output of note.

You advise your own mansion-owning corrupt holding generals that run your country and improve that psyche (leading to depressed depleted investment rate and source of all your current misery) first ok?

 

[ziaulislam]

Yah we should have taken such advice and just "import" with "TOT" everything regarding IT, pharma, engineering and so on....so we would be stuck with market cap of triple or even double digit billion lol....and perpetual need of bailouts for even tiny foreign debt piles....forever stuck on consumption and no supply because of import-import-import mentality.

Same can be applied for nuclear and space too I guess. Just import and "TOT".... ISRO would just be doing few screwdriver SUPARCO-style sounding rockets I suppose.....leave the big stuff for only those that can! Just buy it, its great, dont develop nuthin by applying any brain power.

Really we don't need any lecture/advice from a "military with a country" entity on these matters. You file a dozen patents at USPTO yearly compared to our thousands for a reason....lets not even go to science output of note.

You advise your own mansion-owning corrupt holding generals that run your country and improve that psyche (leading to depressed depleted investment rate and source of all your current misery) first ok?

I understand thats the reason why u guys spent 8 billion for 36 rafales
Better suited to get gripen NG on that money and built it at home like brazil did.
After all rafale only has 30-40% advantage on range specs than gripen NG.
India is as usual confused..
For comparison look at someone your own size..see just towards your north..there is no comparison

How would it feel if we start comparing our self to maldives ..?. You guys need to grow some skin and bully china ..
Indian space program is a joke as compared to china

 

[Turingsage]

At some point the bullet had to be bitten . Failure to order would put the whole aeronautic industry ecosystem into treading water for many years. The only way to ensure a future aeronautic industry is to offer long term manufacturing contracts to Indian Industry.
This ensures continuance and long term certainty which is essential for defence related industries to invest expand and diversify.
Order also ensures speeding up of private participation as the lure of ACTUAL money will entice them to defence manufacturing

 

[ziaulislam]

At some point the bullet had to be bitten . Failure to order would put the whole aeronautic industry ecosystem into treading water for many years. The only way to ensure a future aeronautic industry is to offer long term manufacturing contracts to Indian Industry.
This ensures continuance and long term certainty which is essential for defence related industries to invest expand and diversify.
Order also ensures speeding up of private participation as the lure of ACTUAL money will entice them to defence manufacturing

Wrong..subsidizing HAL will have the opposite effect
HAL needs to compete ..not be protected

 

[Osiris]

That is around 65.78 Million USD per LCA MK-1A.

Wrong, that's not the per unit cost, that the overall cost, including lifelong spares and maintenance support from HAL. i.e. IAF will not spending any more money from its pocket for supporting these aircrafts, other than what is being paid now.

 

[Turingsage]

Wrong..subsidizing HAL will have the opposite effect
HAL needs to compete ..not be protected

Buying a product is not subsidizing. The UK and US govt's have done it for GENERATIONS not just a few years. Many govts across the world including the Chinese have done it for decades. You cannot store defence companies in limbo , you have to commit in order to move forwards.
HAL and others will improve because they will feel the wind of govt orders in their sails instead of treacle like purgatory of no orders, no commitment, no movement.
.

 

[UKBengali]

Sorry Pakistanis I will have to go with Indians on this one.

Although the Tejas is not as good as what could be brought off the shelf like Gripen, it is still cheaper and helps India build up an aviation industry. All countries to some extent subsidise their aviation industries.

 

[Zapper]

Whats this?

ADA is developing the MWF (medium weight fighter) which is a larger version of the Tejas with longer ranger, more hardpoints and a lot of added capabilities but is still single engined. The reason IN rejected LCA cuz they wanted a twin engine fighter which is why ADA is developing the TEDBF (Twin engine deck based fighter) to be on par with the Rafale-M

Tejas have more than half of its components imported from other countries.

As per CAG's report, the indigenous content of Tejas Mk-1 as of 2018 is 60% by value and 76% by numbers. Mk-1A's indigenous content is much higher since it uses the Uttam AESA radar while EW/Avionics suit would be supplied by BEL/BDL in entirety

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...-by-numbers/articleshow/55498923.cms?from=mdr

Is uttam confirmed for this batch..wasnt it isareli elta..has that deal been cancelled

PAF doesnt has IAF resources it would have never paid 70m for LCA size aircraft ..
Hell it didnt paid 70m for f16 (which is twice size of LCA)

Reports surfaced in 2018 that Elta was selected but no confirmation after that. Also, it wasn't an official source but some media groups articulated it which most probably might've been a paid article. ADA/HAL wants to replace all sub-systems except for the engine with indigenous alternatives cuz we have them available. If Kaveri engine was able to generate the required thrust, it would've been used instead of GE-404/414

There is no comparison ..
Jf17 is joint venture and LCA is india led project ..

As for front fuselage its not difficult to manufacture part of front fuselage if u r manufacturing rest 65% of the frame.
Jf17 is a comerical product first PAC joined because it thought it will make profit out of it..so far it has been half right with decent sales to nigeria myanmar ..PAC got it 60% manfactured

As fot cost india would have done FAR better for just buying gripen under tot..
LCA two major subsytems like radar and engine are imported anyway

You could either choose to go for a foreign platform and be at their mercy eventually or intend to develop your own. The reason we went ahead with the LCA project is cuz we wanted to move away from foreign dependency eventually

Also, there are literally no reports that PAC manufactures any components of the JF-17. Infact, Blk-3's pics which surfaced most recently also were of full scale aircrafts which came outta China's facility. This clearly proves PAC is doing no more than HAL interms of what we do for Su-30

Secondly, buying the gripen would kill our LCA project and all the developmental knowledge we've gained with it. No wonder, the development of MWF is at an extremely quick pace with the entire design and wind-tunnel tests completed and ADA is starting metal-cutting for the initial 4 prototypes soon.

Though LCA's two major subsystems (engine & radar) are foreign currently, we've successfully integrated and tested the Uttam AESA radar which will be the mainstay of Mk-1A & MWF. In regards to engines, even China couldn't make significant progress and still resorts to using Russia RD series engines