HAL Tejas vs JF-17

[Gurjot.S]

Well going by your logic, Kargil is said to be inside Indian territory, the location of bunkers would have been well known to the Indian army, yet both the IA and IAF failed until some merciful help arrived from far away.
As for UAV kill, believe me the shooter is not even known unlike the Agni Pankh, which went as far as awarding a Fulcrum pilot....thinking he locked an F-16 from within India.

For kargil, Indian army did not know exact positions of pakistani troops as pakistan had positions above the mountain top's occupied. This is why airforce was called. They filmed those positions then bombed them later on.
There is a difference b/w rag tag militants and a enemy nation occupying ur territory.
Whats wrong in taking help from friendly nations ? Even U.S uses your ports for transporting to A-stan and then spread same terror inside pakistan as per pakistani's. .

 

[fitpOsitive]

Ok, i am am starting this thread ...........to......
enjoy

 

[Beast]

Well I have my doubts in it. The MiG 21 had better turning capability and more power compared to the Mirage III in the Arab-Israeli conflict of the 60s and 70s. But the Israelis managed to out climb and out accelerate the MiG 21s. The JF 17 may have a better sustained turn rate but the LCA has a better instantaneous turn rate. The engine thrust of both the RD 93 and the GE F 404 may be comparable but the Tejas being lighter has more thrust to weight ratio.

And I dont think both these fighters will ever be facing each other in a war. LCA is going to be a point defence fighter in the IAF. Unless PAF opts for trying to enter the Indian airspace with the JF 17 it is not bound to happen.

Tejas being lighter than JF-17 is BS. It fitted with many subsystem which Indian designer under estimate which makes it overweight.

While JF-17 is design with fully subsystem and airframe everything by Chinese which they have better management than Indians. No overweight problem unlike India.

 

[vikata]

we own 58% shares of the Aircraft and we'll also get our money from future sales plus this is what matters for us

whats your contribution to the project
kindly back your claim with link to some authentic paper,patents,ancillary industries
its nothing more than a screw driver job
since you dont have any industrial base
i sincerely hopes your answer will be based on facts devoid of rheoterics
thanks

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Tejas being lighter than JF-17 is BS. It fitted with many subsystem which Indian designer under estimate which makes it overweight.

While JF-17 is design with fully subsystem and airframe everything by Chinese which they have better management than Indians. No overweight problem unlike India.

You are such a funny person. It is still only 500 kgs overweight. With every subsystem fitted to it. It is an official figure that is disclosed to the public. LCA carries more fuel and payload than the JF 17, isn't it proof enough for you?

I still think LCA is not suited for the modern theater of war that my country is going to fight in the future. Even the MK2 is going to have the capabilities of the Mirage 2000-9 which is not enough.

But in comparison to JF 17 the LCA there are lots to be debated. The whole programs are different and the approach is different.

 

[Beast]

You are such a funny person. It is still only 500 kgs overweight. With every subsystem fitted to it. It is an official figure that is disclosed to the public. LCA carries more fuel and payload than the JF 17, isn't it proof enough for you?

LCA is short legged which is well know. Fat and overweight. That is also well know. That is why mk1 rejected and need F414 engine

 

[Windjammer]

For kargil, Indian army did not know exact positions of pakistani troops as pakistan had positions above the mountain top's occupied. This is why airforce was called. They filmed those positions then bombed them later on.
There is a difference b/w rag tag militants and a enemy nation occupying ur territory.
Whats wrong in taking help from friendly nations ? Even U.S uses your ports for transporting to A-stan and then spread same terror inside pakistan as per pakistani's. .

Wrong, the bunkers occupied by Pakistani troops or otherwise were the same that the IA vacated, thus their positions was well known to the IA and IAF.....
Those rag tags caused more havoc through their inhuman actions than the known enemy.
The point is Kargil was a small confined area inside Indian territory, yet the IAF needed outside assistance, while both the PA and PAF are conducting operations on a much larger scale....on their own shoulders.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

LCA is short legged which is well know. Fat and overweight. That is also well know. That is why mk1 rejected and need F414 engine

So what is the specific fuel consumption of the RD 93 engine in comparison with the GE F 404 IN20? The LCA carried more fuel when compared to the JF 17. The numbers do not add up at all. Contrary to popular belief the F 404 is fuel guzzler in comparison to the RD 93. And hence the increased fuel capacity.

The F 414 was intended for the Navy. The IAF thought that why not go for increased thrust and hence the whole MK2. In the first page it is proven that the LCA has better TWR even though it is marginal in comparison to the JF 17. I suggest you the read them.

 

[Gurjot.S]

Wrong, the bunkers occupied by Pakistani troops or otherwise were the same that the IA vacated, thus their positions was well known to the IA and IAF.....
Those rag tags caused more havoc through their inhuman actions than the known enemy.
The point is Kargil was a small confined area inside Indian territory, yet the IAF needed outside assistance, while both the PA and PAF are conducting operations on a much larger scale....on their own shoulders.

1)
An example of Indian jugaad – or improvisation – was the use of stopwatches and handheld GPS receivers in their cockpits by MiG-21 pilots lacking sophisticated onboard navigation suites. According to Prasun K. Sengupta in “Mountain Warfare and Tri-Service Operations”, another novel technique developed by the IAF for use in the campaign entailed selecting weapon impact points so as to create landslides and avalanches that covered intruder supply lines.

Air Marshal Patney said one of his younger pilots decided to carry a small video camera with him in a fighter and to film the area of interest so that an immediate reconnaissance report was available and at an expanded scale. On another instance, the IAF used the MiG-25R – which normally flies at 80,000 ft – in a medium altitude role to improve the resolution of its pictures, something that the aircraft’s Russian designers may not have thought possible.

2)However, the MiG-21s, MiG-23s and MiG-27s – lacking modern weapons – were not making a significant impact on hard to locate enemy positions.


https://in.rbth.com/articles/2013/01/16/migs_over_kargil_how_the_fulcrum_buzzed_the_falcons_21659

 

[Daghalodi]

Honestly i think both are beautiful planes but thunder has more experience than lca

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Honestly i think both are beautiful planes but thunder has more experience than lca

Yeah it is built upon a proven design. So it must work. It is the perfect aircraft for a country that needs something that works and can get into air faster.

 

[vikata]

whats your contribution to the project
kindly back your claim with link to some authentic paper,patents,ancillary industries
its nothing more than a screw driver job
since you dont have any industrial base
i sincerely hopes your answer will be based on facts devoid of rheoterics
thanks

when you dont have any answer this is what you people resort to, that is negative rating
but the fact is it would not change the reality
better than giving vent ,try to learn and improve the industrial base which is non existent
otherwise like we are watching right now somebody will be still searching for some second hand plane or some aid from some nation
when it comes to any thing like patent ,industries you guys start running with tail in ...

 

[Windjammer]

when you dont have any answer this is what you people resort to, that is negative rating
but the fact is it would not change the reality
better than giving vent ,try to learn and improve the industrial base which is non existent
otherwise like we are watching right now somebody will be still searching for some second hand plane or some aid from some nation
when it comes to any thing like patent ,industries you guys start running with tail in ...

Isn't it ironic how your kind have to come on PDF on your high horse trying to dish out your pennyworth advise which otherwise no one wants to listen.
It's habitual for Indians to feel big and proud by verbally demeaning and ridiculing others.
Once again for the simple minds....the 'J' in JF-17 stands for Joint Fighter.....hence the reason Pakistan is now producing it, flying it, displaying and marketing it and supplying it to the potential customers.
Your kind are always chest thumping on making the SU-30.....well, try selling it to a third party, in fact you have to look towards Russia for their spare parts hence your fleet is only 65% operational.
BTW, when you get down from your high horse, there's a dedicated thread titled JF-17 information pool, spend a day on that, you might enlighten your self.

 

[CriticalThought]

The mistake Indians make is equating FC-1 and it's airframe with JF-17 Thunder. The Thunder today is customized by Pakistan for Pakistani needs. A small example is KLJ-7A v2. It is an indigenous customization that extends range, adds more modes etc. It is not available for export to Nigeria etc even. Similarly the custom weapons package such as the GIDS REK. And we have rumors of an IR seeker in development. The Thunder has been developed grounds up as a SU-30 killer for BVR engagements and if you follow @Windjammer closely you will realize it has already proven its worth.

And although the Chinese have designed it, PAF pilots have eked out the last ounce of performance out of it. In the end, it is the tactics of aerial warfare that matter and the pride goes to PAF in turning Thunder into a lethal killer.

Challenge to Indians: Thunder can take out a drone that doesn't have much of a heat signature from a Mile away using WVR missile. At a technological level, this is truly an achievement. What can the Tejas do?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Challenge to Indians: Thunder can take out a drone that doesn't have much of a heat signature from a Mile away using WVR missile. At a technological level, this is truly an achievement. What can the Tejas do?

That's not really a huge technological challenge, the most difficult part will be detecting the UAV after that it is up to the seeker on the WVRAAM to do the job. With a superior radar and WVRAAM arguably the LCA would be more than up to the job if the JF-17 can do it.

If your country is importing the design, engine, radar, weapons, ejection seat, avionics, and every major piece of the LCA

Welcome to globalisation, are you telling me the weapons, engine, avionics etc on the JF-17 are 100% Pakistani/Chinese? Oops, I forget, you are very selective in how you measure "success".

I'll just leave this here:

yet not able to convince your military to induct this plane

Well 123 units are commited to by the IAF so this is entirely false.

after almost 30 years

Considering where India started from and where it is today this is a very reasonable timeframe, the F-22, Rafale and Typhoon had similar development timelines.

In those 24-5 years India has developed a capable 4.5 gen fighter with a twin seat and naval variant whilst having AESA and engine development running alongside on a budge of around $3 billion dollars, there are not many countries that could boast of such acheivements.

joint development

LOL, what "development" did Pakistan contribute to the JF-17 project?

even exported to other countries

Oh so the JF-17 is being exported to other countries or is it the FC-1?

Let's be real, by 2019, the LCA MK.1A will have more capabilities than even the Block-3 JF-17, will have more export potential and will have more applications. And the road map for the LCA will make this even more pronounced, by 2019-20 the Kaveri will begin flight testing on the LCA and not long after the DRDO UTTAM AESA radar so within the next 7 years India could have a fighter that is almost sanction proof.

The acheivements of the LCA project are simply in another league to the JF-17 and hence there is very little comparison.

The JF-17 is fine for what it is meant to do (replace legacy jets at a relatively minimal price) but the LCA's goals are just entirely different and far more ambitious; the LCA is effectively creating an entire aerospace industry in India froms scratch.