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My point is the show of skepticism from previous posters is completely vindicated :)

Skepticism requires all information to be supported by evidence. What was expressed was Cynicism.

They are worlds apart.
 
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A major re-design of LCA MK-2 would be a lot easier than designing a whole new plane.

Depends on the aim of the re-design, if integrating internal weapon bays is the aim, it would be far easier to develop a new fighter with this aim but far less size, weight or thrust restrictions, than re-designing LCA. A light class fighter is simply not a good base for high capability and performance, one reason why I always prefered Chinas way to go for a single engined medium class fighter as the low end.

IMO, IAF will go for all three categories of Heavy, Mid and Light weight aircraft

Heavy - MKI + FGFA
Medium - M2K UPG, Mig 29 UPG, Rafale
Light - LCA

Not to mention, higher use of composites,from the current use of 45% to over 70% and RAM coatings will def. help in bring down the RCS.

Composites are mainly used to bring the weight down, the fact that it reflects radar waves less than normal materials is just a side advantage, but the use of RAM and coatings, besides having a low RCS by design are the main benefits in that regard. However, even it LCA would have 100% composites, would be fully covered by RAM it hardly has an advantage as long as it has to carry that many external payloads. That's why reducing external fuel tanks and weapons will add far more to RCS reductions, than any reduction of the clean fighter.
Simple example, an Eurofighter is said to have one of the smallest clean RCS today, but add some fuel tanks and the RCS will be increased by far. The much bigger Su 35 has a larger clean RCS, but carry the fuel internally, which means the RCS won't be increased by fuel tanks anymore. So the RCS of EF with fuel tanks, will be far closer, or even bigger than of the Su 35. The Silent Eagle and Hornet developments are going in the same directions, by reducing the RCS with removing external payloads as much as possible and not by reducing the clean RCS of the fighter only.
 
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Skepticism requires all information to be supported by evidence. What was expressed was Cynicism.

They are worlds apart.

Actually skepticism is the scrutinizing of claims that are not backed by evidence. Skepticism doesn't put forth a claim, it merely challenges a claim that has been put forward already, and demands evidence.

The claim that DRDO can field an AESA radar on mk-2 in time, when they couldn't field a mechanically scanned radar on mk-1 in all these decades, is a claim that is very rightly open to skepticism. As of now, only the USA and france have fielded working AESAs on fighters. Not even Russia, with decades of experience in PESAs. So DRDO's claim that they can pull off an AESA in three years, when so far they haven't even produced a PESA, and even failed to produce an MSA for mk-1, is like any other claim of DRDO.
 
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yes it would be a major re design of tejas... what do you think ?? am i adding small changes to make it silent eagle.. this is as good as what has happened to F-15.. this would be more valuable than AMCA.....

A Silent re-design would be far more valuable for IAF, with FGFA and AURA coming, but for LCA as a platform, such re-designs simply would be too complicated and hardly doable. MKI or Rafale offer more space and potential for such changes, Rafale will have CFTs in future and Dassault is already working on a weapon pod similar to the Silent Hornet, the MKI already carries fuel internally and imo has the potential to carry either a weapon bay on the centerline station, or weapon pods at the wingstations.
A single engine AMCA is really good idea.

It would be even better if it shares power plant with FGFA.

It definitely would be a "logical" approach, to ease and simplify an AMCA development, but as long as we (our industry) tend to develop every nut and bold alone, that sadly is not going to happen. But when you look at it logically it could go like this:

Requirement:

IAF gets FGFA and AURA, IN has no 5th gen aircraft, so logically they need an AMCA more than IAF need it and why the requirement for a 5th gen carrier fighter is higher than for another fighter for the air force!


What we have:

We already have the N-LCA tech demonstrator, which gives us base experience and knowledge in navalising a fighter and possibly valuable input for a new carrier fighter design.
We have reasonable know how of modern materials and coatings and can gain a lot from design and techs of FGFA!
We also have access to NG avionics or weapon developments, through access to foreign partners!


What we need:

5th gen fighter design will be a problem for us, based on the issues and problems we already have in various aircraft developments. Therefor design assistance of a foreign partner is crucial, be it of a Russian, or a western partner.
Our own engine development for a 4th gen fighter failed and improving it to be used in a 5th gen fighter will be to ambitous and risky again. Simply using a version of the type 30 engine of FGFA, that HAL will produce in India anyway, would be the most logical choice. One could think about going the Swedish way and develop an "own" engine, based on a foreign one (Volvo RM12 with around 60% parts of the US GE 404, similarly Kaveri K-X engine, based on X% of the type 30).
If we get catapults for IAC 2, we will need a foreign partner that has experience with developing fighters for this aim (Dassault, Boeing and now LM would be the logical choices)!


So all in all, the plan must be to base such a development as much as possible on what we already have from LCA/N-LCA TD and what we get from FGFA, or even through MMRCA, while all new development parts should be done with foreign partners (HALBIT displays, Samtel-Thales IRST or HMS, BEL-Thales/Rafael for an internal LDP, naval design with Dassault or Boeing as a partner, NIIP as a partner for the AESA radar development, based on FGFA's radar...).

The power plant should be based on M-88 2 producing thrust of 11,000 KG.

Not sure if such a big jump is even possible from the current 75kN, not to mention if that would give a useful balance between thrust and fuel consumption. But the biggest issue here is, that we would just add another twin engined fighter, which makes it more costly again.
 
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The claim that DRDO can field an AESA radar on mk-2 in time, when they couldn't field a mechanically scanned radar on mk-1 in all these decades, is a claim that is very rightly open to skepticism.

That exactly is the point! IF DRDO would be remotly as capable as they claim, we would not need to buy an Israeli radar for 40 x LCA MK1s and around 100 x Jags during the upgrade. The Jags require even very basic radar capabilities for a 4th gen MMR and if IAF still needs to import techs, it says a lot about DRDOs fighter radar capabilities.
Btw, even ADA officials had stated doubts on DRDOs claims of LCA MK2 coming with their AESA at the begining. If we insist on DRDO radars on LCA, the most likely scenario might be EL 2032 for MK1, indigenous puls doppler MMR for early MK2s and as soon as the indigenous AESA is ready and mature enough, it will be added to the MK2 production line and as upgrades for the earlier LCAs.
 
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Some interesting points on the Performance improvements needed in MK1. Its a old doc not sure if they have already implemented. Excuse if already posted...
 

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We should put a foreign AESA similar to the one on Gripen E on the Mk-2.

When the DRDO radar comes, we will retrofit it then, if it proves to be more capable
or less costly to operate in the long term.

The two programs (making of Mk-2 LCA and making of indigenous fighter-based AESA)
shouldn't be interconnected and one shouldn't be the cause for other's delay.
 
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In other words, if everything goes well, the first squadron can be raised in early 2015?
 
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A Silent re-design would be far more valuable for IAF, with FGFA and AURA coming, but for LCA as a platform, such re-designs simply would be too complicated and hardly doable. MKI or Rafale offer more space and potential for such changes,
Do you think we can do re design on MKI or Rafale? we dont have there CAD design to make structural changes... And FGFA is not there any more, And having a silent Eagle Tejas would be more valuable to IAF compared to MKI or Rafale on which we cant do any changes
 
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Look at the air intake of LSP 8. i believe that Air intake design issue is resolved.




It is a primer and not Paint.


Can anybody Gauze the weight of Payload on LSP 4-5.


Nope,

They are really bigger.


Yes it does look big in LSP8

Airduct.jpg
 
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Anybody know the status of Mark-2 proto ???
Mr. Chandar in last paragraph said a lot. Hope he isn't filling voids for Mr. Saraswat ;)
 
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They bought a different engine.. Different air intake... Logical.

Look at the pics... The plane got huge actuators... Looks like 747...
 
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In other words, if everything goes well, the first squadron can be raised in early 2015?

No Superboy.

The first sqd will be raised Early next year and be fully complemented and ready by early 2015 with 16 fighters.

by 2023 there will be 7 sqds 5 of which will be MK2 aesa equipped with bigger engines and ASTRA BVRs
 
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Do you think we can do re design on MKI or Rafale? we dont have there CAD design to make structural changes... And FGFA is not there any more, And having a silent Eagle Tejas would be more valuable to IAF compared to MKI or Rafale on which we cant do any changes

Why would a Silent Tejas be more valuable than a Silent MKI or Rafale? The small size and trust will even work against carrying useful loads, not to mention that the other 2 offer more technical potential too.
A re-design to make MKI or Rafale similar to the Silent Hornet is not needed. As I said, Rafale already has CFTs and weapon pods under development and MKI is actually an ideal plattform for missile bays on the centerline and weapon pods for bombs at the wing stations. With a large number of 4th gen fighters remaining in IAF for the next 3 x decades, we should focus on own developments in that regard as well and not only on 5th gen fighters.

They bought a different engine.. Different air intake... Logical.

Just that neither the engine has changed, nor the air intake, other than some drag reductions.
 
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