HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[BATMAN]

Yeah this is something that would be of great interest..... with the constant delays the unit price MUST have increased. The purchase of external parts and knowledge will have racked up the price as well.

According to one (out of many) estimates on wiki the unit price may go well up to 35MUSD.
I wonder if these estimates count the development cost of Kaveri engine or not?

Due to development delays IAF is forced to do major service and overhall of its mig21 (in order to keep them alive) which again (web info.) may cost 400MUSD for 125 units!
And also due to delays IAF had lost many planes and pilots on those migs, which again may have costed dearly!
In that case (common sense) its not very viable or wise to keep spending on such an ill concieved project, but then what are the factors which are forcing all governments to keep rolling this project!
Is it the local contractors who have there interest associated? or
Is it the self-esteem? or
Is it a tit for tat approach against the development of JF-17? or
Is it for the sake of fame? or
Is it just India is rich enough to afford expensive labs and costly trainings for its young engineers?

Recent test flight of a prototype indicates that India suddenly become very serious in the swift completion of LCA project. But we also know local engine will not be ready any time soon, hence I assume that most likely it will be GE-F404 type, other wise modifications may be required on Airframe.
Are there any news about this potential order?

 

[Adux]

Anywhere between 25mil to 35mil will be a correct assesment.
Heck after all the upgradation the Su-30MKI costs us 55mil and we are making 230 of 'em

 

[Adux]

According to one (out of many) estimates on wiki the unit price may go well up to 35MUSD.
I wonder if these estimates count the development cost of Kaveri engine or not?

Due to development delays IAF is forced to do major service and overhall of its mig21 (in order to keep them alive) which again (web info.) may cost 400MUSD for 125 units!
And also due to delays IAF had lost many planes and pilots on those migs, which again may have costed dearly!
In that case (common sense) its not very viable or wise to keep spending on such an ill concieved project, but then what are the factors which are forcing all governments to keep rolling this project!
Is it the local contractors who have there interest associated? or
Is it the self-esteem? or
Is it a tit for tat approach against the development of JF-17? or
Is it for the sake of fame? or
Is it just India is rich enough to afford expensive labs and costly trainings for its young engineers?

Recent test flight of a prototype indicates that India suddenly become very serious in the swift completion of LCA project. But we also know local engine will not be ready any time soon, hence I assume that most likely it will be GE-F404 type, other wise modifications may be required on Airframe.
Are there any news about this potential order?

Ge-F404 type was the original Engine for LCA from TD1; Kaveri is made to LCA specs, No need of Aircraft Changes.This is the same engine in Gripen

25mil-35mil can be easily expected for a carbon composite plane like LCA, heck we paid 55mil for Su-30MKI, and we are making 240 of them.

Recent Testing of Protype's have been advertised atleast 1 year back, refer ADA website. The Flight Hours as well achievements given over there.

Yes India can afford it, rather well. We are going for the MMRCA too. LCA(MiG-21); MMRCA(MiG-23/27), PAK-FA(New additions)

Indian MiG-21's are already upgraded to Bison standard.

There are no Tit-for tat with JF-17, We are building a Aeronautical Industry. We already have the ToT's manufacturing of lots aircrafts.

Ill-Concieved Project ,Heck No, Ill-managed Yes.... We are pretty much can afford it, and there are other factors such as the Technological base at stake here.

There are 5 prototypes already; Sixth one will fly this november which is a two seater as well as the Naval Version. I would give LCA a lot of credit.

 

[BATMAN]

Cool..

Ge-F404 type was the original Engine for LCA from TD1; Kaveri is made to LCA specs, No need of Aircraft Changes.This is the same engine in Gripen

This is bit unclear,
What you are saying is that LCA will go a head with foreign engine untill Kaveri is ready! and Kaveri is a sort of plug and play replacement of GE-F404

25mil-35mil can be easily expected for a carbon composite plane like LCA, heck we paid 55mil for Su-30MKI, and we are making 240 of them.

You think in 25-35MUSD LCA will have same avionics as SU-MKI.
Still 35MUSD.... Only India can afford it.

I would give LCA a lot of credit.

Why not eventually it will be flying in IAF.
BTW, any expected dates!

 

[Shehz]

LCA delay has caused an increased price hike of US $ 21 Million per jet. The Govt. is not happy with it as that's the price tag of the Saab Grippen and The F-16, and The LCA is not half as advanced as those.

Indian economists and military think tanks predict the cost to go upto as much as $ 65 Million per jet by 2020.

Although, with The GE Engine, the first jet might roll out of production around 2007, induction is expected between 2012-2015.

References:
http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/lca/
http://kuku.sawf.org/Articles/207.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Tejas

 

[Adux]

Cool..

I know, Check out the Nat Geo Video on LCA. Its here in the Mil Multimedia section.

This is bit unclear,
What you are saying is that LCA will go a head with foreign engine untill Kaveri is ready! and Kaveri is a sort of plug and play replacement of GE-F404

Yes, exactly. If the JF-17 can plug n play a WS-13A and Rd93 then why not the LCA.

You think in 25-35MUSD LCA will have same avionics as SU-MKI.
Still 35MUSD.... Only India can afford it.

How can it have the same avionics; for example N011 Radar wont fit in the nosecone of LCA. They are for different roles; Airsuperiority and Point Defence are different.

Why not eventually it will be flying in IAF.
BTW, any expected dates!

Flip through to the page prior to this you will see the amount of proto-types. There are more LCA prototypes than JF-17. Check out the Video I mentioned and you will get a better idea. I would expect it to be in IAF colours by the end of 2009/10.

 

[EagleEyes]

You know what i see? I see LCA like Arjun. It might turns out to be a capable aircraft to be flown, but when it comes to the price. It will just be priceless!

 

[Keysersoze]

Yes, exactly. If the JF-17 can plug n play a WS-13A and Rd93 then why not the LCA.


.

Those two engines are pretty much the same thing....
unless the Kaveri is exactly the same dimensions as the GE-F404 then there will be some alterations required

 

[Adux]

You know what i see? I see LCA like Arjun. It might turns out to be a capable aircraft to be flown, but when it comes to the price. It will just be priceless!

Arjun has impressed the Brass in the current War games. As far as various reports all its problems has been solved. More than half the cost of Arjun is its German Engine. The only way IA can bring its cost down, is to bring its Engine cost down. Both Arjun and LCA, though have taken considerable amount of time, has turned out to be quite nice weapon platforms

 

[EagleEyes]

Actually LCA has yet to show anything impressive. No offence. Like it has been mentioned, countries will likely go for F-16 or Gripen with the same price than they go for LCA.

 

[Adux]

Actually LCA has yet to show anything impressive. No offence. Like it has been mentioned, countries will likely go for F-16 or Gripen with the same price than they go for LCA.

LCA is not to impress the world Webby, The Indian Aeronautical Industry is going to be built around it. Look at the amount of carbon composite tech involved. India doesnt have an aircraft which has so much carbon composite involved. It is slated to get the Elta 2052 AESA. I would consider it be a very good platform. How much world is impressed with India will be known after PV-5 fires its weapon system for the first time.

 

[Shehz]

IYes, exactly. If the JF-17 can plug n play a WS-13A and Rd93 then why not the LCA.

Firstly, The WS-13 is being developed, not done yet.
Secondly, it's not plug and play, it's being made specifically for the JF-17, just as the WS-10 for The J-10A.

Neither can be revesed as the length is different.
Similarly, it can't "plug & Play" into the LCA either.

 

[EagleEyes]

How much world is impressed with India will be known after PV-5 fires its weapon system for the first time.

Is there going to be a surprise.

 

[Adux]

Firstly, The WS-13 is being developed, not done yet.
Secondly, it's not plug and play, it's being made specifically for the JF-17, just as the WS-10 for The J-10A.

Neither can be revesed as the length is different.
Similarly, it can't "plug & Play" into the LCA either.

So is Kaveri, hope you got what i was trying to convey

 

[Bull]

Actually LCA has yet to show anything impressive. No offence. Like it has been mentioned, countries will likely go for F-16 or Gripen with the same price than they go for LCA.

Very true webby, its not a mindblogging plane, but a simple point defence fighter which can be made in numbers to replace the Mig-21s. Its not meant to take on the F-35s or hornets or anything thats 4.5 gens or more.

Well about it being pricey. Yeah it might be, but its our baby. Build by us ( with foriegn help) who have not a single mentionable history of making fughter jets of same capabilty. So even if we come close, we are happy as we would fair better when we make our next plane.