HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[karan21]

I am sure the Project Managers and PAC aren't lying - these are official reports , kiddo Your opinion doesn't matter then , at all specially knowing that you usually troll around in threads .

Please care to share these reports. Don't call me kiddo coz ur the one behaving like one right now. If Pakistan was able to produce 58% of components of a 4+ gen plane then there is no way that Pakistan's aerospace industry would be in a condition it is today. Pakistan can't manufacture components of even a 1st gen fighter leave alone a 4+ advanced plane like JF-17.

Tejas is a plane that has been designed from scratch in India and still India is unable to produce 60% of its parts on its own and has to depend on foreign suppliers. How can Pakistan produce 58% of parts of a plane designed in China. Pakistan is assembling these planes just like India assemble Sukhoi-30 Mki with almost all parts imported from Russia.

 

[MilSpec]

Answer me this . Is RCS reduction of much use and worth the money and maintainance intensive components for these 4th Gen Aircraft ?

Absolutely, if it lets you gets you to see and fire first....

 

[Secur]

Please care to share these reports. Don't call me kiddo coz ur the one behaving like one right now. If Pakistan was able to produce 58% of components of a 4+ gen plane then there is no way that Pakistan's aerospace industry would be in a condition it is today. Pakistan can't manufacture components of even a 1st gen fighter leave alone a 4+ advanced plane like JF-17.

Tejas is a plane that has been designed from scratch in India and still India is unable to produce 60% of its parts on its own and has to depend on foreign suppliers. How can Pakistan produce 58% of parts of a plane designed in China. Pakistan is assembling these planes just like India assemble Sukhoi-30 Mki with almost all parts imported from Russia.

JF-17 production with China’s support

Pak contribution rises to 70pc in avionics

Mian Saifur Rehman
December 3, 2013

The Pakistani security apparatus and allied engineers not only produced the JF-17 Thunder prototype in a record period of two-and-a-half years as against a period of 8-9 years taken in the advanced world on the first model of a combat aircraft, they have also taken the Pakistani contribution in the avionics’ preparation to the optimum level of 70 per cent of the Pak-China joint endeavour and to a satisfactory figure of 58 per cent in the preparation of other essential components.

Talking to The News, Pakistani functionaries who had been working in commanding positions in the manufacture of the JF-17 Thunder disclosed that China’s cooperation has been efficiently reciprocated by Pakistani engineers and technicians whose talent has been acknowledged by Chinese scientists.

JF-17 production with China’s support - thenews.com.pk

Google , there are other links too reporting the same thing . Keep underestimating though , doesn't change the reality on ground . The production of components at Kamra will increase to 75% by 2015 but you will still be saying the same thing .

 

[sancho]

Thanks for the correction and I know knowledge and experience gained from these projects is invaluable . There were reports of RAM coatings usage on Thunder , dont know their credibility .

Answer me this . Is RCS reduction of much use and worth the money and maintainance intensive components for these 4th Gen Aircraft ?

Oscar and other senior Pakistani members on defence forums still say that no RAM coatings are used and even the Chinese just started to add composites and coatings to their latest J11 and J10 varients. Another hint are comments of PAF pilots that were stated in the JF 17 thread, which said it has a lower RCS that the older F16s of PAF and we know that they didn't had RCS reduction features either.
Yes, the maintenance of the coatings will be expensive, even more so for stealth fighters which people often forget when they want to see hundreds stealth fighters in PAF, PLAAF or IAF, but the more radar technology and missile technology improves, the more you need to counter that with a lower RCS!
Remember the Cope India 2004 exercise, where US fighters had problems to detect and engage Mig 21s. Take modern BVR tactics with AWACS or active/passive combos to account, even the increased development of stealth or LO fighters, all this makes clear how important RCS reductions are for modern air combats. In fact, we even see that radar has less importance than a low RCS combined with good passive detection and EW capabilities, which applies to modern 4th gen fighters as well as 5th gen stealth fighters. That's where LCA is aimed to as as well and where it can show a good performance in air combat!

- low RCS
- advanced RWR/MAWS
- data link capabilities
- modern WVR and BVR missiles
- HMS + HOBS missiles

All features apart of the MMR, that will add to air combat capabilities today and IAF is pushing hard for all fighters to have comparable capabilities.

 

[sancho]

Please watch the video from 1:43 - 2:03 where it shows the steep vertical climb of Tejas with full battle load. This maneuverability is something new and never seen before.

First of all, check the scene again, it takes off with R73s only, the LCA that was taxing was a different one and even that had no external fuel tanks, so both were far away from a full battle load.
Secondly, don't get into exaggerated conclusion by looking at videos.

 

[Manindra]

Thanks for the correction and I know knowledge and experience gained from these projects is invaluable . There were reports of RAM coatings usage on Thunder , dont know their credibility .

Answer me this . Is RCS reduction of much use and worth the money and maintainance intensive components for these 4th Gen Aircraft ?

RAM coating would add extra weight on aircraft & its expensive to maintain. JF-17 thunder is aim to less expensive & its payload capacity is not much to able to sacrifice.

 

[Basel]

That's because too many people confuse low RCS with Stealth and especially DRDO often fuelled this misconception by talking about 5th gen, or stealth upgrades, just like the notion that LCA is the best of it's class is nonsense.
However, it is not deniable that the LCA was developed and designed with the aim to have a very low RCS for a 4th gen fighter. That's why it was designed to be very small, to have as less surface structures that could reflect radar waves, or why it uses high ammounts of composite and radar absorbing materials from the start and not only added in later upgrade stages.

True, but problem with non stealth planes is that when they are loaded with weapons their RCS increases many folds.

 

[Manindra]

True, but problem with non stealth planes is that when they are loaded with weapons their RCS increases many folds.

LCA is being use as point defence so rarely use of external drop tanks. So, less RCS increase.
Being low RCS fighter its RCS would be ow compare to other fighter with same payload.

 

[Basel]

LCA is being use as point defence so rarely use of external drop tanks. So, less RCS increase.
Being low RCS fighter its RCS would be ow compare to other fighter with same payload.

But it will carry missiles which will increase its RCS and now both countries have AESA AWACS so stealthy fighters will be detected at decent range and with 21st Century net centric warfare they can be shot down, but if pitched against an intruder it will give it very tough time due to same reasons mentioned above.

To use LCA and other planes in this class against potent foe, they should be evolved like Silent Eagle or Silent Hornet that will add some real tooth to these predictors.

 

[sancho]

True, but problem with non stealth planes is that when they are loaded with weapons their RCS increases many folds.

Of course, but when the clean fighter has a higher RCS, compared to his opponent, he will also have a higher RCS if both adds the same payload. And the more you can reduce external loads to a minumum (more internal fuel capacity => less increas of RCS through big fuel tanks), the better. That's why F16 B52 have CFTs as an option, or why the Mig 29UPG has increase fuel capacity with the airframe modifications as well, while both have increased the use of composites and radar absorbing coatings.

LCA is being use as point defence so rarely use of external drop tanks. So, less RCS increase.
Being low RCS fighter its RCS would be ow compare to other fighter with same payload.

That's not correct, in interception roles it still will carry at least a single fuel tank to have enough range and endurance, especially when they have to use the AB much to reach the target fast. But they also will do CAP roles, which requires 2 x fuel tanks for increased endurance.

 

[Manindra]

But it will carry missiles which will increase its RCS and now both countries have AESA AWACS so stealthy fighters will be detected at decent range and with 21st Century net centric warfare they can be shot down, but if pitched against an intruder it will give it very tough time due to same reasons mentioned above.

To use LCA and other planes in this class against potent foe, they should be evolved like Silent Eagle or Silent Hornet that will add some real tooth to these predictors.

Silent Eagle is Air superiority Fighter & its competition is with Su-30 MKI
You are comparing apple with oranges.

 

[Basel]

Silent Eagle is Air superiority Fighter & its competition is with Su-30 MKI
You are comparing apple with oranges.

You did not get my point, I was just referring to their evolution not the plane.

 

[Manindra]

You did not get my point, I was just referring to their evolution not the plane.

The right evolution of LCA would be F-16 Block 60

 

[Basel]

The right evolution of LCA would be F-16 Block 60

I think it is very near to it already, but having weapons in pods and nearly non visible to radar from some aspects is the path of Silent Hornet.

 

[Manindra]

I think it is very near to it already, but having weapons in pods and nearly non visible to radar from some aspects is the path of Silent Hornet.

We need to work heavily on EW suite, MAWS to fill that gap in MK2 version of LCA