HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[sancho]

DRDO & IAF's first and major mistake was linking the LCA & Kaveri program together. And unfortunately the Kaveri program was hit hard by the post-Pokhran sanctions. But even without any problems, DRDO had its work out in designing Kaveri - one of the main reasons thrust requirement for Kaveri was so high was due to the unreasonably high weapon load and performance the IAF expected from LCA.

First of all, IAF didn't linked Kaveri with LCA, DRDO/ADA did, because they are the prime developers of the LCA. IAF only stated what requirements they need as the operator of the fighter.
Secondly, where do you see high thrust or payload requirements for LCA MK1? Kaveri was aimed at hardly 50kN dry and 81 wet, that's what the last generartion of RD 33-3 Series offered in The Mig 29 and in JF 17, that is less than the M53 offers in Mirage 2000, or what the RM 12 offers in Gripen C/D. Not to mention that all these fighters have either similar, or far higher payload than LCA MK1.
So that is a pretty baseless claim!

Admiral Joshi has been stressing on his preference for Naval Dhruv

And still they are rejecting it, they don't buy the HAL LUH, they will procure high numbers of medium class naval helicopters, which basically kills HALs IMRH future project, so what does it tell you about their support to Indian aero industry, especially by the fact that the helicopter sector is the most successful in the areo industry?

 

[sancho]

Didn't we already developed an indigenous glass cockpit for Mk1?

Yes, but our industry wants to show off now, that's why they want to integrate a new NG cockpit in our low end fighter, that will be even superior to the cockpit we integrate in MKIs, which shows how far they are from the reality and from what is really needed!
Develop such things for FGFA and AMCA, but why on earth do you delay the already hugely delayed LCA program with techs that are not needed for this fighter? Plain nonsense!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Yes, but our industry wants to show off now, that's why they want to integrate a new NG cockpit in our low end fighter, that will be even superior to the cockpit we integrate in MKIs, which shows how far they are from the reality and from what is really needed!
Develop such things for FGFA and AMCA, but why on earth do you delay the already hugely delayed LCA program with techs that are not needed for this fighter? Plain nonsense!

Lol you're so right! But oh well- at least it looks cool, right!

 

[sancho]

Lol you're so right! But oh well- at least it looks cool, right!

But that's the point, it's basically looks, without making the fighter much more capable. I would prefer 2 more hardpoints, for the wing or centerline station (Gripen NG) way more, because that's what makes a real difference, while this is just show for no reason.

 

[Abingdonboy]

But that's the point, it's basically looks, without making the fighter much more capable. I would prefer 2 more hardpoints, for the wing or centerline station (Gripen NG) way more, because that's what makes a real difference, while this is just show for no reason.

To be fair there is a certain advantage of such a cockpit- otherwise it wouldn't have been devloped. The cockpit can reduce pilot fatigue and increase his effectiveness. But yes the gains to be made over the existing cockpit which isn't exactly stone-age are not huge. And it is odd that this is one of the areas the IAF/IN have insisted on making improvements. I think it has become a case of HAL/ADA are now trying to make a perfect machine in the MK.2 and are incorporating every little design change the Test pilots have suggested. I remember in a Aero india seminar talk a LCA test pilot said HAL/ADA were eager to make any changes the test pilots asked for and this is a major advantage over foreign bought machines. And yes whilst it is at some point you have to draw a line and deliver what you've got and stop refining refinements.


I can see that all pilots in an ideal world would like to have a NG cockpit like the CockpitNG but we don't live in an ideal world and the LCA's current cockpit is adequete.


Oh well, it is what it is-HAL/ADA are going down this route. But to be fair @sancho, as this is an off the shelf purchase I don't see why there'd be any significant time penalties when integrating a NG cockpit on the MK.2.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

LCA MK2 cockpit is different from what ppl are discussing here. same configuration but larger MFDs. Dont believe what trishul blog psosts, because most of it is his thoughts. The guy had claimed that NAL has failed in composite manufacturing and TATA is coming to the rescue, which is a blatant lie. NAL developed the technology for composite tech for LCA program and now for series production they are transferring the tech to TATA.

 

[Abingdonboy]

LCA MK2 cockpit is different from what ppl are discussing here. same configuration but larger MFDs. Dont believe what trishul blog psosts, because most of it is his thoughts. The guy had claimed that NAL has failed in composite manufacturing and TATA is coming to the rescue, which is a blatant lie. NAL developed the technology for composite tech for LCA program and now for series production they are transferring the tech to TATA.

Sir- IIRC the RFI/RFP to ELBIT and the like were sent out some time ago and were posted here. I believe trishul blog is right in this case.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

But that's the point, it's basically looks, without making the fighter much more capable. I would prefer 2 more hardpoints, for the wing or centerline station (Gripen NG) way more, because that's what makes a real difference, while this is just show for no reason.

Let it be Light combat aircraft to serve the lower tier of IAF. On one side you complain that LCA is overweight, then you also want more hard points? They are already increasing its weapons load from 3600 to 5000kgs, is that not making the fighter more capable?

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Sir- IIRC the RFI/RFP to ELBIT and the like were sent out some time ago and were posted here. I believe trishul blog is right in this case.

I prefer Arya over Sir . Yes you may very well be right, but that's an official pic of LCA mk2 cockpit.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I prefer Arya over Sir . Yes you may very well be right, but that's an official pic of LCA mk2 cockpit.

I don't doubt you sir. But we don't know the context of this pic and we don't know what HAL/ADA are thinking ie maybe they experimented with larger MFDs- hence this pic, but in the end decided to go for a NG cockpit like the ELBIT offering.

I guess we have to wait and see.


+who is Arya?

 

[S-DUCT]

Flight test update

From

LCA-Tejas has completed 2029 Test Flights Successfully. (12-Feb-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-350,LSP1-74,LSP2-250,PV5-36,LSP3-100,LSP4-65,LSP5-128,LSP7-20,NP1-4)

to

LCA-Tejas has completed 2042 Test Flights Successfully. (17-Feb-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-350,LSP1-74,LSP2-252,PV5-36,LSP3-102,LSP4-65,LSP5-133,LSP7-24,NP1-4)

 

[IND151]

IAF Statement: February 22, 2013 would witness the Indian Air Force demonstrate its operational capabilities by day, dusk and night at the sprawling facility of the Pokharan Range, the largest air –to-ground weapons firing range for training in delivery of heavy armament, near Jaisalmer, in the arid Rajasthan Sector in an Exercise named – Iron Fist.


Light Combat Aircraft and Light Combat Helicopter, two of the most prestigious indigenous projects would also form a part of the display. In addition, IAF’s Parajumping Team, Akash Ganga, IAF’s Air Warrior Drill Team and Air Warrior Symphony Orchestra would also perform.

Livefist: Exercise Iron Fist To Feature Tejas, LCH

 

[Jayanta]

2004: LCA will be fully operational by 2010

LCA Tejas still not ready - Times Of India

2011: LCA will be fully operational by 2013

Tejas won't become fully operational before 2013 - Times Of India

2013: LCA will be fully operational by 2015

`LCA Tejas likely to be ready for operational service by 2015`

2015: LCA will be fully operational by ?????????????????

 

[sancho]

To be fair there is a certain advantage of such a cockpit- otherwise it wouldn't have been devloped.

No doubt, but that's why you develop it for the most advanced fighters, not for a low end cost-effective fighter, with the result to make LCA MK2 only more costly and more delayed.

And it is odd that this is one of the areas the IAF/IN have insisted on making improvements.

I doubt they did, why would they insist for such techs, when they didn't for Super 30, Rafale, or Mig 29K? I think HAL is proposing it, because they can now, thanks to the HALBIT JV, but they can't integrate it into Rafale and MKI (possibly Mig 29K get Samtel displays). To me this again looks like the industry is developing something, that isn't really needed by the forces. That makes them "look" like they are able to develop something only the latest US fighters have, but integrated to a low end fighter, it simply doesn't make sense!

as this is an off the shelf purchase I don't see why there'd be any significant time penalties when integrating a NG cockpit on the MK.2.

Off the shelf? This cockpit is not developed yet, neither are the techs in a mature stage, or was it developed for LCA, which means it must be integrated with all LCA systems and sensors again. All this takes time and a lot of testing, which is the last thing LCA needs. Look at Boeing for example and how long they need to develop, test and integrate such a cockpit into the Super Hornet. As I said earlier, develop it, with the necessary time, but for FGFA or AMCA in future and not for LCA today.

 

[sancho]

Let it be Light combat aircraft to serve the lower tier of IAF. On one side you complain that LCA is overweight, then you also want more hard points? They are already increasing its weapons load from 3600 to 5000kgs, is that not making the fighter more capable?

And you think 2 hard points makes it heavier than increasing the fuselage size, integrating more fuel tanks, a heavier radar, a heavier engine, addition avionics, while the fighter is 1t overweighted anyway?

Payload doesn't make the fighter more capable, when it don't have enough hardpoints to carry such loads. LCA has only 3 heavy / wet stations, the external stations are limited to WVR missiles, so no matter how much more payload LCA gets, there are only the 2 mid wingstations left to carry weapons. That's why it's more important to either add hardpoints, or to free hardpoints by increasing internal fuel.