Tejas-MkII
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F414 -GE-400 have thrust of 98kn and they are saying it is the highest thrust model so we can safely assume that it will be 100+ KN thrust engine for LCA......
HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions
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SpArK
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karan.1970
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surprisingly, the GE stock hasnt moved much today barely 1%
kingdurgaking
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It will move up once they get approval from US Govt.. Which will be seen as a positive sign for MMRCA also..
gogbot
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For a Company Like GE this order alone is not enough of Big news.
GE Supplies the US military on much larger scale.
Something Like the MMRCA will more of Big deal as that will seem like a much larger and longer term investment.
We don't have as big a buyers advantage as we do with the Europeans and Russian. When Buying from the Americans.
Sheer Size and Scale of US orders can Shadow Indian ones .
karan.1970
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You are right, but look at it this way. A 100 million dollar assured business and increased chances of another 300 million dollar order (chances of FA 18 getting stronger) plays on sentiment.
I agree that for a company with close to 150 billion dollars in annual revenue, its peanuts, but then when has that stopped stock markets from going nuts
I was expecting a sentiment driven rally specially since the GE stock has been in the dumps without any positive news for over 2 years now
kingdurgaking
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GE Aviation where in trouble waters for some time especially on F35 front .. But recent orders from US navy & India + already Aussie will boost the investor confidence... 1 billion $ + more on future orders will raise the investors confidence on the company when the agreement is signed...
sudhir007
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Livefist - The Best of Indian Defence: How GE's Tejas MK-II Win Affects The MMRCA. Or Doesn't.
In a little over two months from now, the Indian Ministry of Defence will approve the Indian Air Force's field trial evaluation report and begin commercial negotiations with what the IAF hopes will be a downselected list of vendors. Remember, the IAF has not explicitly indicated a downselect, leaving it to the MoD to understand this from the level of compliance index.
Now, there's an overwhelming sense that India's selection of the GE F414 engine makes things much, much clearer about the MMRCA competition, and narrows things down considerably. For clarity's sake, variants of the F414 power the Boeing F/A-18 IN Super Hornet and the next generation Saab Gripen IN, while the Eurojet EJ200 -- which lost to GE in the Tejas MK-II competition -- powers the Eurofighter Typhoon.
The logic was always compelling. A dedicated licensed engine production line in the country for the Tejas MK-II would provide robust economy of scale advantages and funnel down the contenders in the MMRCA. That's how it probably should happen, but will it? Another matter altogether. Some scenarios:
SCENARIO 1: At least six IAF officers I spoke to suggested that it would be wrong to connect the Tejas MK-II and the MMRCA on too many levels. One of them suggested that the two deals were mutually exclusive, with a sharp line dividing the two -- in other words, the decision on one had no way of influencing the other. Therefore, in this scenario, the GE F414 selection provides no tangible advantages, going forward in the MMRCA, to the F/A-18 and Gripen NG, even though those advantages would normally shout loud. When I asked an Air Marshal, formerly at Eastern Air Command HQ, how this could be justified -- considering how it goes headlong against the economies of scale notion -- he said, "You must understand that each deal is a leverage in itself. The government can choose to draw connections and give the country the most effective deal. Or it could keep everything separate and leave all options open for maximum leverage. In my understanding, the government would not hand GE an automatic victory in the MMRCA as a default result of the Tejas MK-II selection. That is not how things happen in India." The other crucial point here is: if the GE victory wasn't politically premeditated, then there exists no procedural route for the Tejas MK-II engine selection to be taken into account in a potential MMRCA downselect. In other words, if the MMRCA is sticking unflinchingly to the RFP (as the Indian Defence Minister recently stated in Washington, and reiterated yesterday by Air Marshal NAK Browne, the IAF's Western Command chief), then GE's win would/could have no direct bearing on the MMRCA downselect simply because there is no official route for it to do so. The last critical point: the F414 engine that will be built in India under tech-transfer, will be a modified engine for the Tejas. If an F414-powered airplane happens to be selected in the MMRCA, then it is likely that there will be two lines, or a fork in the main line.
SCENARIO 2: The opposite scenario. Here, the government decides that a dedicated GE F414 engine line in the country means it makes sense to narrow down the selection based on the economies of engine scale logic. In other words, you have the Gripen going against the Super Hornet in the MMRCA finals.
SUB-SCENARIO 2 (a) But there are important points to remember here to: two extravagantly different aircraft, same engine in different configurations. The US government would obviously support the F/A-18, and GE would clearly prefer the F/A-18, since it's American and a twin-engine platform, so it means double the number of engines sold by GE as compared to the number it would sell if India chose the Gripen. In this scenario, the GE F414 economies of scale and political considerations would push the F/A-18 to the top of the list.
SUB-SCENARIO 2 (b) In this scenario, the government decides it already has economies of scale, and pushes the Gripen forward as a perceived compromise: the cheaper aircraft, with American engine and weapons. The US cannot exercise export licensing controls on the Gripen's GE engine since each vendor had to submit a signed affidavit before field trials that all systems listed in their bid documents were available, and needed no further approvals from any government. Remember, the IAF has said it won't choose a twin-engine aircraft in the MMRCA, if a single-engine aircraft can "do the job", i.e, is satisfactorily compliant on all 643 test points that each of the six airplanes were tested for during the field evaluation trials (FETs). But now it's up to the MoD.
SCENARIO 3: In this scenario, the GE victory in the Tejas MK-II engine competition, has a reverse effect on the MMRCA, and pushes the Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale and F-16 (the MiG-35 is all but officially confirmed to be out) to the top of the pile, since alternate engines provide their own leverage. Scenarios 2 & 3 are of course assuming the government won't look at the Tejas MK-II and the MMRCA as "two watertight compartments" as an officer put it.
In a little over two months from now, the Indian Ministry of Defence will approve the Indian Air Force's field trial evaluation report and begin commercial negotiations with what the IAF hopes will be a downselected list of vendors. Remember, the IAF has not explicitly indicated a downselect, leaving it to the MoD to understand this from the level of compliance index.
Now, there's an overwhelming sense that India's selection of the GE F414 engine makes things much, much clearer about the MMRCA competition, and narrows things down considerably. For clarity's sake, variants of the F414 power the Boeing F/A-18 IN Super Hornet and the next generation Saab Gripen IN, while the Eurojet EJ200 -- which lost to GE in the Tejas MK-II competition -- powers the Eurofighter Typhoon.
The logic was always compelling. A dedicated licensed engine production line in the country for the Tejas MK-II would provide robust economy of scale advantages and funnel down the contenders in the MMRCA. That's how it probably should happen, but will it? Another matter altogether. Some scenarios:
SCENARIO 1: At least six IAF officers I spoke to suggested that it would be wrong to connect the Tejas MK-II and the MMRCA on too many levels. One of them suggested that the two deals were mutually exclusive, with a sharp line dividing the two -- in other words, the decision on one had no way of influencing the other. Therefore, in this scenario, the GE F414 selection provides no tangible advantages, going forward in the MMRCA, to the F/A-18 and Gripen NG, even though those advantages would normally shout loud. When I asked an Air Marshal, formerly at Eastern Air Command HQ, how this could be justified -- considering how it goes headlong against the economies of scale notion -- he said, "You must understand that each deal is a leverage in itself. The government can choose to draw connections and give the country the most effective deal. Or it could keep everything separate and leave all options open for maximum leverage. In my understanding, the government would not hand GE an automatic victory in the MMRCA as a default result of the Tejas MK-II selection. That is not how things happen in India." The other crucial point here is: if the GE victory wasn't politically premeditated, then there exists no procedural route for the Tejas MK-II engine selection to be taken into account in a potential MMRCA downselect. In other words, if the MMRCA is sticking unflinchingly to the RFP (as the Indian Defence Minister recently stated in Washington, and reiterated yesterday by Air Marshal NAK Browne, the IAF's Western Command chief), then GE's win would/could have no direct bearing on the MMRCA downselect simply because there is no official route for it to do so. The last critical point: the F414 engine that will be built in India under tech-transfer, will be a modified engine for the Tejas. If an F414-powered airplane happens to be selected in the MMRCA, then it is likely that there will be two lines, or a fork in the main line.
SCENARIO 2: The opposite scenario. Here, the government decides that a dedicated GE F414 engine line in the country means it makes sense to narrow down the selection based on the economies of engine scale logic. In other words, you have the Gripen going against the Super Hornet in the MMRCA finals.
SUB-SCENARIO 2 (a) But there are important points to remember here to: two extravagantly different aircraft, same engine in different configurations. The US government would obviously support the F/A-18, and GE would clearly prefer the F/A-18, since it's American and a twin-engine platform, so it means double the number of engines sold by GE as compared to the number it would sell if India chose the Gripen. In this scenario, the GE F414 economies of scale and political considerations would push the F/A-18 to the top of the list.
SUB-SCENARIO 2 (b) In this scenario, the government decides it already has economies of scale, and pushes the Gripen forward as a perceived compromise: the cheaper aircraft, with American engine and weapons. The US cannot exercise export licensing controls on the Gripen's GE engine since each vendor had to submit a signed affidavit before field trials that all systems listed in their bid documents were available, and needed no further approvals from any government. Remember, the IAF has said it won't choose a twin-engine aircraft in the MMRCA, if a single-engine aircraft can "do the job", i.e, is satisfactorily compliant on all 643 test points that each of the six airplanes were tested for during the field evaluation trials (FETs). But now it's up to the MoD.
SCENARIO 3: In this scenario, the GE victory in the Tejas MK-II engine competition, has a reverse effect on the MMRCA, and pushes the Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale and F-16 (the MiG-35 is all but officially confirmed to be out) to the top of the pile, since alternate engines provide their own leverage. Scenarios 2 & 3 are of course assuming the government won't look at the Tejas MK-II and the MMRCA as "two watertight compartments" as an officer put it.
rockstarIN
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F414 -GE-400 have thrust of 98kn and they are saying it is the highest thrust model so we can safely assume that it will be 100+ KN thrust engine for LCA......
Wht the trust of Mk1 Engine(Old GE engine)?
sudhir007
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sudhir007
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did not disclose yet.
sancho
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Highest rated available, or possible? EPE is not available yet and even the EDE should need changes for a single engine fighter.
redpearl75
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Eurojet pays dearly for engine re-bid delay
European aerospace firm Eurojet missed being declared the lowest bidder — L1 — by a whisker for the engine deal of the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mark-II being developed by Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).
The European consortium is engaged in a fierce battle with the American GE Aviation for providing technology and consultancy for the manufacture of 99 engines for the LCA Tejas Mark-II.
An official with knowledge about the bid, on the condition of anonymity, said Eurojet had submitted its revised bid on September 28 and it reached the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on September 29.
“Eurojet marred its chance by submitting its bid a day before the announcement (of L1 biddder) was made — September 30. And so their revised bid was not considered,” he said.
He said Eurojet’s revised quotation for manufacturing of its EJ200 indigenously is lower than GE’s F-414 by $80-100 million.
According to sources, after reworking the bid and providing the details soughtby the price negotiation committee, the European consortium’s tender price is around $900 million while that of GE is $980 million. In the initial round, Eurojet’s bid was reportedly lower at $666 million compared with GE’s $822 million. It is learnt Eurojet’s price had shot up because it had not clearly specified certain items in its bid.
One of them was the $65 million cost of tools, which it is giving on ‘free on loan’ - meaning the tools would be returned on completion of the project.
GE, on the other hand, is providing the tools totally free.
“This and other costs, which were specified more clearly in response to queries from the price negotiation panel has closed the gap between Eurojet and GE but European engine maker’s bid is still lower than GE,” said a source.
Though, another source, who did not want to be named, said initially Eurojet’s bid had shot up to over $1000 million after they clarified certain expenses in the tender.
“They rushed to correct that (their bid climbing higher than GE’s) but by the time they came back with a revised bid, it was too late,” he said.
Price negotiation committee chairman and chief controller - R&D - of DRDO Dr CK Prahlada could not be reached for comments.
The LCA Tejas Mark-II is an upgraded version of the current Mark-I, which uses GE’s F404 engine.
European aerospace firm Eurojet missed being declared the lowest bidder — L1 — by a whisker for the engine deal of the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas Mark-II being developed by Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).
The European consortium is engaged in a fierce battle with the American GE Aviation for providing technology and consultancy for the manufacture of 99 engines for the LCA Tejas Mark-II.
An official with knowledge about the bid, on the condition of anonymity, said Eurojet had submitted its revised bid on September 28 and it reached the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) on September 29.
“Eurojet marred its chance by submitting its bid a day before the announcement (of L1 biddder) was made — September 30. And so their revised bid was not considered,” he said.
He said Eurojet’s revised quotation for manufacturing of its EJ200 indigenously is lower than GE’s F-414 by $80-100 million.
According to sources, after reworking the bid and providing the details soughtby the price negotiation committee, the European consortium’s tender price is around $900 million while that of GE is $980 million. In the initial round, Eurojet’s bid was reportedly lower at $666 million compared with GE’s $822 million. It is learnt Eurojet’s price had shot up because it had not clearly specified certain items in its bid.
One of them was the $65 million cost of tools, which it is giving on ‘free on loan’ - meaning the tools would be returned on completion of the project.
GE, on the other hand, is providing the tools totally free.
“This and other costs, which were specified more clearly in response to queries from the price negotiation panel has closed the gap between Eurojet and GE but European engine maker’s bid is still lower than GE,” said a source.
Though, another source, who did not want to be named, said initially Eurojet’s bid had shot up to over $1000 million after they clarified certain expenses in the tender.
“They rushed to correct that (their bid climbing higher than GE’s) but by the time they came back with a revised bid, it was too late,” he said.
Price negotiation committee chairman and chief controller - R&D - of DRDO Dr CK Prahlada could not be reached for comments.
The LCA Tejas Mark-II is an upgraded version of the current Mark-I, which uses GE’s F404 engine.
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