HAL Tejas | Updates, News & Discussions

[Dash]

No, LCA is meant as a 4. gen multi role fighter, which means it should offer some promising A2G capabilities too. Don't misunderstand me, I am not talking about additional heavy bomb loads to make him a strike fighter. But even for CAS it should be able to carry more than 2 fuel tanks and a single 250/500 Kg bomb right? And as I said, adding the wing tip stations is not a big deal, so won't need too much work. I hope to see them on the MK2.

Apart from targeting pod, will LCA need a Jammer pod?..

 

[shaktiman2010]

Yes. We are doing it. It is called as MCA. The GSQR has just reached the ADA and they are going thorugh it. After which a design will be drawn. This will then undergo flight tests in wind tunnels and all other simulations before the tech demonstrator is built. This is how all aircrafts are made.

Only difference is, IAF is confused and changes its GSQR every 3 years and forces slow-down of domestic aircrafts R&D.

Have you ever seen American airforce crying like a baby for delays in F-22 programme and asking the US government to dump it and import the planes?

Was IAF sleeping in its bed in last 12 years that they took so long to finalize GSQR for AMCA? Or, they were too busy with imported MRCA contract?

 

[shaktiman2010]

We still lack experience and knowledge!
How do you want to power MCA, if Kaveri engine is not even ready for LCA?
Which radar do you want to integrate in MCA, if LCA did not even have an indigenous one?
Which wepons should it carry, if Astra, or PGM are only under development so far?
Where do you think will the knowledge for stealth, SC, or TVC will come if we never developed and made these techs operational by our own?

Bottom line is, without LCA operational and with improvements, there will be no MCA at all!

Btw, LCA design was made in India, with western consultancy, not in western labs. Clear difference!

So much for the crimes of IAF and Indian babus import nexus!

And, why there is no will in MoD to acquire this experience domestically?

Why Kaveri was underfunded and neglected for so long?

Just compare how much % of defense funds USA invests into local R&D and compare it with how much Kaveri programme got. You will get the answer.

Problem is not that, we lack experience. Problem is that, India never wished to have LCA succeed. IAF today still is crying why we are wasting billions in LCA and not going for imports.

Attitude of slavery and love for imports is a reality. And, its not going to change.

One small example - This is 2010 and just compare % of budget that MoD has allotted to engine R&D nationally in private as well as public sector. Its a total shame that 5 times of same money is spent on MP fund.

 

[sancho]

The IAF dosent think that way. What you are tryng to tell me is what IAF was trying to get 5 years before...Get a Mirage in a Gnat.

Why? Isn't it developed for Interception as well as for CAS and even for the anti ship role? Doesn't they want better A2G modes for MMR from Israeli radars? Doesn't the navy thinks it would be capable enough to be a carrier fighter (and at N-LCA you can see the disadvantage of less stations even more, because it has to carry fuel tanks even on A2A missions)?

So they surely think of LCA as a 4. gen multi role fighter and it surely can be that, these additonal stations would only make it more useful.

 

[Dash]

Only difference is, IAF is confused and changes its GSQR every 3 years and forces slow-down of domestic aircrafts R&D.

Have you ever seen American airforce crying like a baby for delays in F-22 programme and asking the US government to dump it and import the planes?

Was IAF sleeping in its bed in last 12 years that they took so long to finalize GSQR for AMCA? Or, they were too busy with imported MRCA contract?

Agreed brother, but that is done and its past now..
Things are changing and situations are improving. We are living in a democratoc society. its no communism that you will hang all DRDO scientists coz they didnt deliver and suspend IAF officers for changing GSQR..

Did you ever appreciate HAL from jumping from a 2nd gen fighter to a straight 4th Gen?.

Things will take time here, DRDO is changing is modus operandi and HAL is busy getting the IOC so once that is done, they will start work on MCA and so on....its a part of process..

 

[shaktiman2010]

The reality is that, IAF is prejudiced to anything that comes from DRDO and HAL.

They will order a small number of LCA and allocate them to a non-critical role, just like Army did with Arjun which proved tobe superior to T-90.

Racism and prejudices against domestic products is pervasive in Armed forces and its not going to change.

The best example of that was, IAF changed its GSQR of LCA when it was near to IOC, and now IAF says, "We won't buy a lot of LCA in its current form. We need higher powered engines. Sorry, we are changing our original demands. Please design a new one."

Small number(40) of LCA will be bought as an insult to Indians and MRCA will proceed in big numbers. End of story.

 

[sancho]

So much for the crimes of IAF and Indian babus import nexus!

And, why there is no will in MoD to acquire this experience domestically?

Why Kaveri was underfunded and neglected for so long?

Just compare how much % of defense funds USA invests into local R&D and compare it with how much Kaveri programme got. You will get the answer.

Problem is not that, we lack experience. Problem is that, India never wished to have LCA succeed. IAF today still is crying why we are wasting billions in LCA and not going for imports.

Attitude of slavery and love for imports is a reality. And, its not going to change.

One small example - This is 2010 and just compare % of budget that MoD has allotted to engine R&D nationally in private as well as public sector. Its a total shame that 5 times of same money is spent on MP fund.

You still making the same old claims, even if they does not make sense. Fundings alone won't give us high techs, do you really belive that more money would have made Kaveri ready yet?
The US can fund their R&D because they are decades in front of us, we still need any JV, co-development, or ToT from MMRCA for example to improve.
Simply paying for indigenous developments alone will lead us nowhere and that is what we should have learned from LCA development, because we still had to learn a lot of the basics.

Small number(40) of LCA will be bought as an insult to Indians and MRCA will proceed in big numbers. End of story.

What about the 100 - 150 MK2s? If 40 Mk1 was the end, why would the evaluate new engines, radars and other tecs?

 

[shaktiman2010]

Did you ever appreciate HAL from jumping from a 2nd gen fighter to a straight 4th Gen?.

My appreciating HAL will solve the problems with corrupt IAF(Imported Air Force)?

We need a bigtime cleanup of corrupt decision makers in MoD and import lover IAF.

 

[RPK]

India’s LCA flies in the configuration of Indian Air Force ready for delivery in December 2010 : Defense news


The first flight of India’s Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Limited Series Production (LSP) aircraft, LSP-4 took place at HAL, Bangalore airport today.
India LCA flies in the configuration of Indian Air Force ready for delivery in December 2010
India LCA flies in the configuration of Indian Air Force ready for delivery in December 2010


The aircraft took off at 1110 hrs and landed forty minutes later, becoming the 10th Tejas aircraft flying.

The aircraft flew to an altitude of 11 km and went supersonic touching 1.1 Mach speed.

A major milestone in the direction of releasing the Tejas for the IAF planned for December 2010 it was the first flight of a Tejas aircraft flying in the configuration that will be finally delivered to the Indian Air Force.

Speaking on the occasion, Mr PS Subramanyam, Director, Aeronautical Development Agency, Bangalore, said that the Tejas team is now heading to central India to carry out hot weather trials.

He expressed confidence that the aircraft would soon be flown by operational pilots of the defense services and he looked forward to that day.

Test Pilot Gp Capt Suneet Krishna, flew the aircraft with Test Director, Gp Capt D Chakravorty, guiding from the telemetry facility of National Flight Test Centre. The flight was also witnessed by ACNS (Air) at Naval HQ Cmde BS Prahar, NM.

The Indian Navy has a considerable stake in the programme, as they look to replace their Sea Harrier fleet, which is due to be phased out in due course.

 

[shaktiman2010]

You still making the same old claims, even if they does not make sense. Fundings alone won't give us high techs, do you really belive that more money would have made Kaveri ready yet?
The US can fund their R&D because they are decades in front of us, we still need any JV, co-development, or ToT from MMRCA for example to improve.
Simply paying for indigenous developments alone will lead us nowhere and that is what we should have learned from LCA development, because we still had to learn a lot of the basics.

Americans and Russians didn't become technology superpower because Aliens donated them technology.

Unless India funds engine R&D in serious way, there is no hope for Kaveri succeeding.

Lack of enough funding is a symtop of lack of political will for support to Kaveri.

Just compare how much serious Western countries are with respect to local R&D fundings.

And, yes. I still think that better political support and timely fundings to Kaveri would have made a BIG difference.

I give you one more example how R&D is not taken seriously in India - ISRO's recent Cryogenic engine test failed and India lost GSAT worth 300 carores. This happened because ISRO decided not to build a gound live cryogenic test facility to save money.

This is how things work in India. Things don't work in same way in USA or Russia. They are much more serious and confident with domestic initiatives in R&D while India still prefers importing help because Indian leadership is still old and backward-minded who don't realize importance of projects like Kaveri and cryogenic engines(which failed).

 

[farhan_9909]

heard tat Mk2 will hav Eurofighter engine or f-18Sh engine

bt first i am confuse here that why nt Kaveri for Mk2.
bt leave it

my question is this if india want to install new engine in LCA MK2
so it will also need to redesign the the airframe for the engine and testing many years

and atlast it will take 5 years for india to do it?
am i right?


wher as JF-17 for ws-13 is already redesigned and is going on testing..


thanx in advance

 

[shaktiman2010]

What about the 100 - 150 MK2s? If 40 Mk1 was the end, why would the evaluate new engines, radars and other tecs?

You still don't understand how import lobby works in MoD.

IAF deliberately delayed GSQR for LCA-MK-II. By the time, DRDO comes out with Mk-II version, IAF will start pushing for upgrading MRCA order from 125 to 250 planes and their reasoning will be simple - "LCA-MK-II is still in prototype and testing phase with no wartime experience. So please let us import a proven design like MRCA. That will save time and efforts. Otherwise, India will lose wars."

You have no idea about how IAF plays a big role in screwing domestic R&D. Wait, 5 years, you will see their game.

By the way, by 2016 requirements of IAF will change drastically. They will require atleast 300 planes of LCA-MK-II calibre. Clearly, they won't say that now because if they did, then our domestic players(DRDO,HAL) will ready themselves in advance and IAF will loose their chance to import.

That's how it works. IAF always delayes their projections so that domestic R&D always remains behind and import wins.

Recent army officer's honeytrap blowup is a big shame for credibility of Indian armed forces. Who IAF protects? India or Russian weapon exporters?

 

[sancho]

heard tat Mk2 will hav Eurofighter engine or f-18Sh engine

bt first i am confuse here that why nt Kaveri for Mk2.
bt leave it

my question is this if india want to install new engine in LCA MK2
so it will also need to redesign the the airframe for the engine and testing many years

and atlast it will take 5 years for india to do it?
am i right?


wher as JF-17 for ws-13 is already redesigned and is going on testing..


thanx in advance

Kaveri is under development just like WS 13, both will years to be mature and proven, but unlike PAF, or PLAAF which might be ready to take the risk with unproven engines, IAF wanted proven engines and will go for those which needs the least changes.
The US engine has the same diameter as the present engine in MK1, but mostlikely will need bigger air intakes. The EF engine instead is smaller and is said to be integrated without any airframe re-designs.
Kaveri engine will only be integrated into LCA if it is mature enough, or directly into future MCA.

 

[Tejas-MkII]

heard tat Mk2 will hav Eurofighter engine or f-18Sh engine

bt first i am confuse here that why nt Kaveri for Mk2.
bt leave it

my question is this if india want to install new engine in LCA MK2
so it will also need to redesign the the airframe for the engine and testing many years

and atlast it will take 5 years for india to do it?
am i right?


wher as JF-17 for ws-13 is already redesigned and is going on testing..


thanx in advance

Dude if u look at the specification of RD-33 and ws-13 they are almost same length,diameter,also increase of thrust is not much mere 5KN.

but the EJ and GE-414 offer for LCA have thrust around 100.

GE-414 EPE:115KN -without much change in length and specification.
Improved version of EJ:110KN.

EJ is more suited to LCA because we don't have to do much changes,unlike 414.

But yes u r right MK2 will be come around 2014.

 

[sancho]

You still don't understand how import lobby works in MoD.

IAF deliberately delayed GSQR for LCA-MK-II. By the time, DRDO comes out with Mk-II version, IAF will start pushing for upgrading MRCA order from 125 to 250 planes and their reasoning will be simple - "LCA-MK-II is still in prototype and testing phase with no wartime experience. So please let us import a proven design like MRCA. That will save time and efforts. Otherwise, India will lose wars."

If that would be true, IAF had the chance with the first MRCA competitions. They could have easily gone with foreign fighters and scrap LCA, but that is not the case right? More money was invested in LCA and indigenous techs and MMRCA will still only replace one parts of the Mig 21.
Also if IAF would be against indigenous developments like you say, how come the go for numbers of Dhruv, LCH, LOH, Saras, indigenous trainer and UAVs, SAMs and other weapns?
You theory clearly has no base, because IAF is clearly doing the exact opposite and is pushing our defense industry, but of course they are not stupid enough to rely only on them. Just like they don't want to rely so much on Russia anymore and diversify the fleet with western counterparts too.