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I hope you noticed post 513, which covered Indian terrain exclusively. The points about Afghanistan and Pakistan are not entirely valid; it is only in mountains without vantage points for marksmen with MANPADs to stand within MANPAD range that attack helicopters. That presupposes a degree of flat terrain, which can be found in Afghanistan between mountain ranges. On the other hand, there are areas, the Afghanistan-Pakistan border among them, where I suspect attack helicopters will be singularly out of place. Taking the point further, I suspect that our experts from Pakistan will inform us that neither north nor south Waziristan lends itself to attack helicopter operations.

I agree with that. And if a correction is allowed in my previous post I think the LCH is specifically designed for Aksai Chin and the Kashmir sector whereas it will primarily be the Hinds and the Apaches (hope they'll acquire that beast) which will be unleashed in the deserts.

And as regarding MANPADS it is not entirely valid given that the anti-MANPAD technology has grown exponentially and the even the LCH is fitted with an advanced Self Protection Suite.((Link), not to mention the Apaches that are fitted with Israeli Elisra Seraph Self Protection System with integrated Missile warners and Jammers.

This, though is for Afg only where the Apaches operate and not the FATA areas where it is the Cobras or the Super Cobras which recently underwent an upgrade IIRC and it would be helpful if any Pak member with knowledge on it can explain about the tactics of the Pakistani Cobra pilots.
 
Antony is a good guy. Vote of antony!

Murthy? Excuse me, I don't want a call-center CEO whose coolie army works day night for doing contract work of western MNC's.

That whole $1 Billion profit is waste and his company can't even produce a single biometric technology patent for country, who has to rely on foreign software firms for UID project, shelling out Indian tax-payer's hundreds of crores, in royalties.

Besdies that, Murthy will eat up all Indian tax-payer's money on importing foreign solutions & products, just like his company relies on western products for earning all bread and butter. Typical Romanian, polish style cheap outsourced contractor.

Heck, even those small Israeli firms are making world-class VOIP software patents and image recognition algorithms earning them millions of $$ in royalties from American firms. What Murthy's coolie-firm invented, other than relying on bits & pieces thrown by western firms?

Lol I feel for you knowledge (or lack of it) in speaking about Infosys as a coolie company. Wakey wakey those things have long gone to other countries like Kenya,Phillipines.

India is now a niche exporter in software.
 
Antony is a good guy. Vote of antony!

Murthy? Excuse me, I don't want a call-center CEO whose coolie army works day night for doing contract work of western MNC's.

That whole $1 Billion profit is waste and his company can't even produce a single biometric technology patent for country, who has to rely on foreign software firms for UID project, shelling out Indian tax-payer's hundreds of crores, in royalties.

Besdies that, Murthy will eat up all Indian tax-payer's money on importing foreign solutions & products, just like his company relies on western products for earning all bread and butter. Typical Romanian, polish style cheap outsourced contractor.

Heck, even those small Israeli firms are making world-class VOIP software patents and image recognition algorithms earning them millions of $$ in royalties from American firms. What Murthy's coolie-firm invented, other than relying on bits & pieces thrown by western firms?

Your Honour.....point to be noted..... :rofl:
 
First, my remarks were based on Robert Thompson partly, and his Malaysian experience; during the 60s, his writing was tremendously influential in certain circles in India, but actual experiences caused certain principles to be formulated. I had in my post reproduced from memory some documents 'seen' in a completely irregular manner, which dealt with a civilian force's doctrinal outline for dealing with Maoist insurrection in the countryside (it is to be noted that an earlier phase of country-based insurrection was defeated, and resulted in a flare-up of an essentially urban insurrectionary movement fought with low technology on both sides, which also resulted in the defeat of the insurrection). The sequence of events was:
  1. Political detachment of insurrectionary faction from main pro-Chinese marxist political body (other mainstream marxist political body was pro-Soviet Russian);
  2. outbreak of armed insurrection in West Bengal countryside;
  3. successful partial repression of rural insurrection;
  4. transfer and continuation of insurrection in urban setting (in Kolkata, 68 to 71);
  5. repression of insurrection in urban area;
  6. revival of rural insurrection;
  7. second, thorough repression of rural insurrection;
  8. long interval and multiple 'splits' in Maoist political body (different from majority pro-Chinese marxist body named earlier);
  9. multiple outbreaks of insurrection in 'central' India (Bihar, including present Jharkhand, Orissa, Madhya Pradesh, specifically present Chhatisgarh, Maharashtra, including Gadchiroli area, Andhra Pradesh, and bits and pieces of Tamil Nadu and Kerala;
  10. sustained insurrectionary campaign in Bihar/Jharkhand/West Bengal/Orissa/ Chhatisgarh;

I will respectfully disagree. Intelligence above anything is what is important in counter-insurgency. There is the romantic idea of fighting the guerilla like a guerilla, (plot of the second Rambo movie no?) but I think it is largely unnecessary for an army operate off the land and of the land to be effective.

I emphatically agree that gathering of local intelligence, broader and more civilian and life-style activity oriented information than military information, is the living spirit of counter-insurgency work. Nothing I have written already should be considered to oppose intelligence gathering as a critical function.

There have been different doctrines used in different states, and all will be reported as possible, though possibly not in this thread. However, it is understood that all successful campaigns ran on efficient gathering of local information and intelligence. This was typically gathered by policemen as well as by civilian spies, operating under the protective and sustained presence of armed policemen in sensitive and trouble-prone areas. Details are not clearly known due to lack of documentation of these campaigns by state-based police forces, more accurately, state-based paramilitary forces uniformed and designated as policemen.

Living off the land was not an option and was not attempted; I suspect that this phrase was used in a different sense than it appears in the rebuttal, the different sense being to be located in and around the battlefield, not in off-terrain armed barracks, but in the field; fighting guerrillas as guerrillas was done successfully, partially by adopting some key elements in Mao' book 'On War'.

Intelligence (or the need thereof) is generic to fighting any conflict, not just an insurgency. About Rambo; Mr. Rambo or even Gen. Rambo will not last long in any counter insurgency operation. There was nothing romantic about the Viet Cong for instance, but a lot that was effective.

Rambo was not a model, although there were militaristic tendencies in some of the disparate forces assembled then and now.

I think, intelligence is differentially important in different kinds of wars and also the kind of intelligence needed to fight an insurgency is different from the conventional idea of intelligence in war (ie troops disposition, concentration) but more human intelligence like relationships between people, cell structure, political motivation, stuff like that.

Very true.
 
Such infiltration and combination of civilian spies, military presence and targeted killing, was what made the Phoenix program so successful in Vietnam. It was implemented too late to make a difference but the vietcong leadership after the war attested to the effectiveness of the program.

I think an insurgency is more a social movement than an act of war. The war aspect is almost secondary, as such it is best defeated by subversion and misdirection of the social forces driving it.



Intelligence (or the need thereof) is generic to fighting any conflict, not just an insurgency. About Rambo; Mr. Rambo or even Gen. Rambo will not last long in any counter insurgency operation. There was nothing romantic about the Viet Cong for instance, but a lot that was effective.

I think there is some misunderstanding about my rambo reference. I was referring to rambo not in the conventional sense of machinegun welding lonewolf, but the plot of Rambo 2 the movie where Rambo parachutes into the Vietnamese jungles with only a knife, and started ambushing the Vietcong using guerilla tactics, which I thought was what Popeye was advocating by this passage.


the best way to deal militarily with an insurgent is like an insurgent. Live close to the land and live off the land.

This I wanted to point may be satisfying in the sense of giving insurgents a "taste of their own medicine" but is not really feasible as a effective framework for counter insurgency.
 
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LCH DURING SUNSET

check out the 3D HOLOGRAM of HAL too..........:toast_sign::smitten::smitten:

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It looks a lil bit like eurocopter,isn't it?Does it has any relation or technology transfer from the german?What kind of radar and combat system will be use?
 
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I've never noticed this before but if you zoom in, it is easier with other pics of the same helo, you can read the little sticker about the EO pod- it is a IAI ELOP, I have looked into this and what I have found out is quite interesting. The pod is normally found on high altitude UAVs and is very capable and advanced. I think good move by HAL fitting such an advanced EO pod. It looks like this is a recent development too as the EO pod on LCH-TD1 is different.
 
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I've never noticed this before but if you zoom in, it is easier with other pics of the same helo, you can read the little sticker about the EO pod- it is a IAI ELOP, I have looked into this and what I have found out is quite interesting. The pod is normally found on high altitude UAVs and is very capable and advanced. I think good move by HAL fitting such an advanced EO pod. It looks like this is a recent development too as the EO pod on LCH-TD1 is different.

The early prototypes had mock ups of this EO pod, because that is enough for the early flight tests. They now integrated it into the new prototype with some other changes and will test these functions and capabilities as well. The next step should bring more new techs and include weapon integration as well.
 
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I've never noticed this before but if you zoom in, it is easier with other pics of the same helo, you can read the little sticker about the EO pod- it is a IAI ELOP, I have looked into this and what I have found out is quite interesting. The pod is normally found on high altitude UAVs and is very capable and advanced. I think good move by HAL fitting such an advanced EO pod. It looks like this is a recent development too as the EO pod on LCH-TD1 is different.

Chalo..Atleast some one has noticed..Everybody will be surprised when this bird is ready for induction..A lot is coming in this..
Bad guys will be petrified by its capability..
 
Indian Light Combat Helicopter TD-2 successfully tested by HAL


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Another major milestone was by achieved by India’s state owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). According to our sources the HAL’s flagship helicopter development program Light Combat Helicopter’s (LCH) second prototype TD-2 (Technology Demonstrator) achieved its first flight at 1500hrs IST. This a major boost for the program as this prototype is expected to be a weaponized version.


The nature of this test flight is not yet clear but it is believed that the helicopter made low level hover similar to first test flight of LCH TD-1. The TD-2 also has lots of Indian Army specific inputs like the revolutionary digital camouflage. Also the TD-2 is 100kgs lighter than the TD-1. TD-2 is also equipped with a fully functional target acquisition and pilots vision pod a feature which was not seen in TD-1.


Plan to develop an attack helicopter was finalized in October 2006 after the design concept developed by HAL was approved by the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force. Need for a modern attack helicopter platform was felt by the Indian military during late 90s when its attack helicopter fleet comprising of some 30 Russian Mi-24s and Mi-35s proved to be useless at high altitude and lacked sophistication needed by complex modern wars. It was decided to develop an attack helicopter which could fulfill the unique and different needs of the Army and the Air force.


LCH was designed out of HAL’s highly successful multi-role utility helicopter “Dhruv”. Dhruv first entered service in 2002 and since have carried out its duties in a very successful manner. Dhruv is also being exported to many countries. Developing LCH from Dhruv saved HAL preciously needed time. So far the IAF has placed an order of 65 LCH’s and the Army has placed an order of 114. According to estimates the LCH should receive its Final operational clearance by 2013/2014 after which it will enter service.


The LCH incorporates stealth features, ability to perform night operations and crash landing gear for high survivability. The LCH will have a narrow fuselage, with two crew stations. The LCH is being designed to fit into an anti-infantry and anti-armour role and will be able to operate at high altitudes (16,300 feet). HAL will supply the Indian Air Force with 65 and Indian army with 114 gunships. The helicopter is powered by the HAL/Turbomeca Shakti turboshaft engine. The helicopter will be equipped with helmet-mounted targeting systems, electronic warfare systems and advanced weapons systems.
The LCH is to have a glass cockpit with multifunction displays, a target acquisition and designation system with FLIR, Laser rangefinder and laser designator. Weapons will be aimed with a helmet mounted sight and there will be an electronic warfare suite with radar warning receiver, laser warning receiver and a missile approach warning system.

Indian Light Combat Helicopter TD-2 successfully tested by HAL | Defence Aviation
 
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