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HAL HLFT-42: Lead In Fighter Trainer Project

Developing a completely new aircraft would have its own cycle of development, certification and then new production line. The logistics and maintenance would also need to be independently established. Separate training of personnel for maintenance would also add to the cost.

HAL isn’t a novice to not have identified these aspects. They would have also got some feedback from the IAF before going ahead with the project.

Wondering, why Tejas trainer couldn’t be stripped down of stuff not required for training and offered as a solution.
One big factor could be the usage of Kaveri engine in LIFT. That can make it a completely Make in India product and keep the cost very low compared to even a stripped down Tejas but with a GE engine.
I am really hoping that, they strap Kaveri to this as usage of GE-404 cannot make this a cheap option. Also helps in validating and keeping indigenous engine alive.
 
20230213_125716.jpg
its bigger than Tejas
 


IMO a pure PR, marketing or propaganda plot! :hitwall: :crazy:

It simply makes no sense and even if a jet-trainer per se like the Hürjet would be a good idea, it will take India again much too long, only to develop and eventually later field a type comparable to several other well-established contenders like the T-50, Hürjet and others.

And finally, to fit such a small type with AESA, IRST-dome, 10 AAMs is plain ridiculous ...
 
IMO a pure PR, marketing or propaganda plot! :hitwall: :crazy:

It simply makes no sense and even if a jet-trainer per se like the Hürjet would be a good idea, it will take India again much too long, only to develop and eventually later field a type comparable to several other well-established contenders like the T-50, Hürjet and others.

And finally, to fit such a small type with AESA, IRST-dome, 10 AAMs is plain ridiculous ...
I do get the surprise in a bad way part. No one in particular demanded it. And it seems not in the category of what it's named.

But then again it's HALs internal efforts as of now. If it had been a MoD/IAF effort, I would have been mad. But right now I am just curious on how it may progress.
 
IMO a pure PR, marketing or propaganda plot! :hitwall: :crazy:

It simply makes no sense and even if a jet-trainer per se like the Hürjet would be a good idea, it will take India again much too long, only to develop and eventually later field a type comparable to several other well-established contenders like the T-50, Hürjet and others.

And finally, to fit such a small type with AESA, IRST-dome, 10 AAMs is plain ridiculous ...

What do you feel India should do instead when it wants a cheap and economical LIFT in say 5-6 years' time? Import T-7A or T-50 or Hurjet?

The 10 AAM part is purely to highlight that it's got the payload and that it is going to be a supersonic platform, able to perform a light medium fighter role in addition to the trainer role.

With the IAF committing to the Tejas Mk2 for the medium weight fighter role, there is no need for the HLFT-42 to be a fighter as it's main role. The primary role is that of a LIFT, a cheap economical one at that.
 

What do you feel India should do instead when it wants a cheap and economical LIFT in say 5-6 years' time? Import T-7A or T-50 or Hurjet?

The 10 AAM part is purely to highlight that it's got the payload and that it is going to be a supersonic platform, able to perform a light medium fighter role in addition to the trainer role.

With the IAF committing to the Tejas Mk2 for the medium weight fighter role, there is no need for the HLFT-42 to be a fighter as it's main role. The primary role is that of a LIFT, a cheap economical one at that.
HAL is probably banking on older work already done during HF-24 development and HF-73 studies to cut down the cost and speed up the process.

At the end all we can do now is wait and watch.
 

Interview video in the link....​

Aero India 2023: Meet HLFT-42, the aircraft that will train pilots for 5th generation fighter jets

The HLFT-42 trainer, which is aimed at preparing fighter pilots comprehensively for the fifth-generation aircraft, incorporates an ultra-modern training suite, enabling hyper-real combat situations to train pilots in a perfectly safe, standardised and efficient flying environment.
Aero India 2023: Meet HLFT-42, the aircraft that will train pilots for 5th generation fighter jets


Vipin Vijayan
First Published Feb 13, 2023, 3:50 PM IST

With India aiming to design and develop its fighter aircraft of the future, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited is preparing to meet the challenges that pilots would have to face in their next-generation aircraft. Meet the Hindustan Lead-in Fighter Trainer (HLFT-42).
Talking to Asianet Newsable during the Aero India 2023, which was inaugurated by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Monday, Experimental Test Pilot Harsh Vardhan Thakur said: "The training of Indian pilots happens on three platforms -- the basic trainer, the intermediate trainer and the advanced trainer. So all of these teach how to fly. The basic trainer is for all kinds of pilots, including helicopter pilots. In advanced trainers, we train only fighter pilots. The advanced trainers I am talking about are the AJT or the Hawk-I of the HAL. But that trains fighter pilots to learn how to manoeuvre the aircraft; it never goes supersonic, never does any missile firing, does not have sensors, and does not have a radar or an infrared search and track (IRST) system. So on yesterday's aircraft, the real combat training never gets done. Today and tomorrow that is required. That's why we have the need for a medium fighter trainer urgently."

According to the HAL, the HLFT-42 trainer, which is aimed at preparing fighter pilots comprehensively for the fifth generation aircraft, incorporates an ultra-modern training suite, enabling hyper-real combat situations to train pilots in a perfectly safe, standardised and efficient flying environment.

"To fill today's needs and for tomorrow's aircraft like the Light Combat Aircraft Mark II, we have to have a very high-performance trainer to go along with them. The trainer needs to have similar capabilities. As a leading fighter trainer, it is very efficiently made. It will do exactly the same task that it is supposed to. The trainer will be very similar to the fighter aircraft of the next generation," the Group Captain (Retd) said.

"It will be similar to the recently approved projects like the LCA MK II, the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF) and eventually the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). So it (the new fighter trainer) will have to keep pace with that kind of requirement. It should have similar sensors and weapons. Obviously, the simulators and simulations should be of that capability as well," he added.
The HLFT-42's salient features include the ability to deliver superior kinetic performance suited for training for twin-engine fighters. It would also feature sustained endurance for practising multiple combat situations and exercises.

Aero India 2023: Meet HLFT-42, the aircraft that will train pilots for 5th generation fighter jets

The mock-up of the Hindustan Lead-in Fighter Trainer, on display at Aero India 2023, curiously sports a Hanuman motif on its tail portion. When asked, Test Pilot Harsh Vardhan Thakur downplayed the presence of 'Pawan Putra Hanuman'.

As to when a flying prototype of the fighter trainer aircraft would be available, it can be safe to assume that it would happen around 2030, when the Indian fifth-generation aircraft is expected to take flight.
 

HAL Unveils Cleansheet Supersonic Trainer​

February 10, 2023 / By Team Livefist
shiv1-1024x576.jpg


A brand new Indian supersonic jet trainer is all set to be unveiled by India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) at the upcoming Aero India 2023 show in Bengaluru. A handful of concept art pieces released by HAL today for the first time define a program that has looped through a series of names and definitions over the years.

A derivative of the LCA Tejas, but sporting clear pickings from a series of programs, the HLFT-42 will be single-engine supersonic trainer platform intended to plug a perceived gap between subsonic jet training which IAF pilots go through with Hawk-132 trainer and fast jet training on actual frontline fighter platforms like MiG-21 and Su-30 MKIs. The program, internally funded by HAL, will position itself as a major cost-saver for IAF pilot training, negating the need for expensive airframe hours spent on frontline war assets.

85e10ad9-be8c-496f-818a-e96849b5c37f-1024x576.jpg


BAE Systems, whose Hawk trainer the IAF currently uses, had pitched a joint BAE-HAL ‘Advanced Hawk’ to the Indian Air Force in 2017, though interest in such a platform is believed to have evaporated considering the new platform would not be supersonic. You can read all about the Advanced Hawk here.

A media note on the HLFT-42 says, “Contemporary air warfare has altered significantly over the last decade. Strike pilots face unenviable odds due to opposing, low signature interceptors and long-range SAMs. Air defence pilots are swarmed with false air-targets and large packages of incoming strikes. To survive this unforgiving combat environment and effect mission success, fighter pilots are aided by onboard systems, external networks, and their formation members. The ensuing combat situations are highly complex and multi-dimensional, making traditional methods of fighter training, obsolete. HAL’s New-Generation, Lead-in Fighter Trainer, HLFT-42 is designed to train fighter pilots in the art of executing today’s combat missions, to effect repeatable mission success. The high-performance platform incorporates an ultra-modern training suite and a full complement of combat sensors, weapons, and operational capabilities. The ground-up training sequence of HLFT-42 starts from ground simulators and culminates with in-flight large-force-engagements, in hyperreal combat situations. All fighter pilots train together, in a perfectly standardised, safe, and efficient flying environment. HLFT-42 incorporates a wide-array of training and
combat equipment, for ensuring cost-effective and comprehensive exposure to young fighter pilots, in all sensors, weapons, missions, and roles, executed by modern air powers
.”
In 2019, HAL had provided a glimpse of what would finally end up being the HLFT-42. At the time, it announced an LCA-based trainer designated SPORT (Supersonic Omni Role Trainer Aircraft). What began as simply a stripped down LCA Tejas or an ‘LCA Lite’ has now transformed into a very different airframe platform being proposed. It is not cleat how the HLFT-42 compares with the LCA in terms of performance envelope — details expected to emerge at the AeroIndia show next week. You can read all about the SPORT program as it stood in 2019 here.

“HAL has decades of experience with trainers and fighters. It has picked up best attributes from all its design houses,” a senior HAL pilot told Livefist.

Air Marshal Anil Chopra (Retd.), Director of the Centre for Air Power Studies (CAPS) and a veteran Mirage 2000 pilot told Livefist, “Lead in fighter trainers are meant to train pilots just before they induct into main line combat squadrons. Prima facie the proposed HLFT 42 looks like the HAL produced HF-24 Marut fighter, but the trainer will be single engine. It will be supersonic. The engine initially is likely to be GE 404. Also to make it much more manoeuvres it would have unstable aerodynamic design and fly by wire active controls technology. HAL’s experience on the Hawk i would be embedded. It could then take on the role of what MiG operational flying traing units (MOFTU) took on. There is a clearly designated slot for LFTs in military flying training.

Aviation and military commentator Rohit Vats sounded a cautionary note on Twitter, saying, “Call me skeptical. But doesn’t HAL have its plate full with LCA Mk1 and Mk1A and Mk2? Does it have the finances, manpower and bandwidth to indulge in another project?” Another aviation writer Angad Singh tweeted, “I worry for the same reasons, but will support any approach that gets us back to Day 1 of LCA programme — bringing design back to HAL. If HAL can manage resources to run this project, especially minus a user req/spec, then good, more power to them.”

Meanwhile, HAL has been in a final stretch of proving a previously troubled intermediate jet trainer, the HJT-36 Sitara. Breaking successfully out of a circle of issues, the platform is now one of HAL’s priority areas in the testing space. We covered the Sitara recently here. HAL has had much more success at the basic training level with its HTT-40 propeller trainer with 70 on order by the Indian Air Force. After nailing recent performance trials, the IAF is keenly awaiting deliveries of the first HTT-40s possibly by 2024-25.

 

HAL Unveils Cleansheet Supersonic Trainer​

February 10, 2023 / By Team Livefist
shiv1-1024x576.jpg


A brand new Indian supersonic jet trainer is all set to be unveiled by India’s state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) at the upcoming Aero India 2023 show in Bengaluru. A handful of concept art pieces released by HAL today for the first time define a program that has looped through a series of names and definitions over the years.

A derivative of the LCA Tejas, but sporting clear pickings from a series of programs, the HLFT-42 will be single-engine supersonic trainer platform intended to plug a perceived gap between subsonic jet training which IAF pilots go through with Hawk-132 trainer and fast jet training on actual frontline fighter platforms like MiG-21 and Su-30 MKIs. The program, internally funded by HAL, will position itself as a major cost-saver for IAF pilot training, negating the need for expensive airframe hours spent on frontline war assets.

85e10ad9-be8c-496f-818a-e96849b5c37f-1024x576.jpg


BAE Systems, whose Hawk trainer the IAF currently uses, had pitched a joint BAE-HAL ‘Advanced Hawk’ to the Indian Air Force in 2017, though interest in such a platform is believed to have evaporated considering the new platform would not be supersonic. You can read all about the Advanced Hawk here.

A media note on the HLFT-42 says, “Contemporary air warfare has altered significantly over the last decade. Strike pilots face unenviable odds due to opposing, low signature interceptors and long-range SAMs. Air defence pilots are swarmed with false air-targets and large packages of incoming strikes. To survive this unforgiving combat environment and effect mission success, fighter pilots are aided by onboard systems, external networks, and their formation members. The ensuing combat situations are highly complex and multi-dimensional, making traditional methods of fighter training, obsolete. HAL’s New-Generation, Lead-in Fighter Trainer, HLFT-42 is designed to train fighter pilots in the art of executing today’s combat missions, to effect repeatable mission success. The high-performance platform incorporates an ultra-modern training suite and a full complement of combat sensors, weapons, and operational capabilities. The ground-up training sequence of HLFT-42 starts from ground simulators and culminates with in-flight large-force-engagements, in hyperreal combat situations. All fighter pilots train together, in a perfectly standardised, safe, and efficient flying environment. HLFT-42 incorporates a wide-array of training and
combat equipment, for ensuring cost-effective and comprehensive exposure to young fighter pilots, in all sensors, weapons, missions, and roles, executed by modern air powers
.”
In 2019, HAL had provided a glimpse of what would finally end up being the HLFT-42. At the time, it announced an LCA-based trainer designated SPORT (Supersonic Omni Role Trainer Aircraft). What began as simply a stripped down LCA Tejas or an ‘LCA Lite’ has now transformed into a very different airframe platform being proposed. It is not cleat how the HLFT-42 compares with the LCA in terms of performance envelope — details expected to emerge at the AeroIndia show next week. You can read all about the SPORT program as it stood in 2019 here.

“HAL has decades of experience with trainers and fighters. It has picked up best attributes from all its design houses,” a senior HAL pilot told Livefist.

Air Marshal Anil Chopra (Retd.), Director of the Centre for Air Power Studies (CAPS) and a veteran Mirage 2000 pilot told Livefist, “Lead in fighter trainers are meant to train pilots just before they induct into main line combat squadrons. Prima facie the proposed HLFT 42 looks like the HAL produced HF-24 Marut fighter, but the trainer will be single engine. It will be supersonic. The engine initially is likely to be GE 404. Also to make it much more manoeuvres it would have unstable aerodynamic design and fly by wire active controls technology. HAL’s experience on the Hawk i would be embedded. It could then take on the role of what MiG operational flying traing units (MOFTU) took on. There is a clearly designated slot for LFTs in military flying training.

Aviation and military commentator Rohit Vats sounded a cautionary note on Twitter, saying, “Call me skeptical. But doesn’t HAL have its plate full with LCA Mk1 and Mk1A and Mk2? Does it have the finances, manpower and bandwidth to indulge in another project?” Another aviation writer Angad Singh tweeted, “I worry for the same reasons, but will support any approach that gets us back to Day 1 of LCA programme — bringing design back to HAL. If HAL can manage resources to run this project, especially minus a user req/spec, then good, more power to them.”

Meanwhile, HAL has been in a final stretch of proving a previously troubled intermediate jet trainer, the HJT-36 Sitara. Breaking successfully out of a circle of issues, the platform is now one of HAL’s priority areas in the testing space. We covered the Sitara recently here. HAL has had much more success at the basic training level with its HTT-40 propeller trainer with 70 on order by the Indian Air Force. After nailing recent performance trials, the IAF is keenly awaiting deliveries of the first HTT-40s possibly by 2024-25.

People are not understanding this but hlft-42 replaces not only our hawks(although the hawk will complement the hlft-42) but also our mig-21,mig27 and jaguars. The present tejas mk1 have replaced our mig27's. The hlft-42 will essentially replace all low end fighters from the mig-21,mirage trainers to the jaguar and mig 23, mig 27 and even the mig 29 to an extent. It's payload capacity is the same as the Jaguar. And it's shown in the release video to fly at low altitudes and have decent maneuverability at lower altitudes.
I had talked with one of the other test pilots and he said the expected to speed was mach 1.9 and they would use the kaveri(unsure). Even if they don't use the Kaver it will either be the Ge-404 or Ge-414 putting it in the same class as the fa-50. I assume the aircraft can achieve mach 2+ consider the design has similarity to a lot of cold war faster plane designs like the jaguar, mig 23/27, f-16, f-4. And I bet the payload would actually be around 6000 kg unlike the marketed 4500 kg. The tejas itself has a payload capacity of 4500 kg with lesser hardpoints. But it can actually carry the same as the gripen C at 5300 kg.

I hope hal can manage to achieve mach 2+ with this although that's just a pipe dream. The only issue I have is that it will have inferior t/w to the tejas and fa-50. Fa/50 is a super mediocre aircraft but it has quite an impression t/w ratio. Although I won't be surprised it was more marketing by the Koreans than anything else. Hurjet is a pipedream like all Turkish projects.
 
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