Hakim Ullah Mesud to be made to Surrender !

[PAFAce]

Pashtu 42%, Tajik 27%, Uzbek 9%, Hazara 9% just for starters.

Add them up. By themselves the tajiks, uzbeks and hazara hold an advantage. Pashtus have an enormous advantage politically-not unlike a military defending internal lines- but until they mobilze themselves politically it'll lie dormant.

A Pashtun majority with respect to all others, I meant. 42% Pashtun, 27% Tajik; that is, there is a 15% difference between the first and the closest second. The 42% has little representation in the government, which, in any country, would be as ant-democratic as you can get.

Now, I agree the Pashtun must mobilize for their right of representation. However, the opportunity was never presented to them because the rest of the 58% were bolstered by support of the invading forces. The US and NATO allied with the Northern Alliance to defeat the Taliban, and in return, the NA got control of Afghanistan. Isn't that what we are seeing today? Collective punishment being implemented on the Pashtun by completely sidelining them?

Here is what Wiki states on the Northern Alliance page:
Three ethnic groups dominated the UIF: the Tajiks, who make up 27% of Afghanistan's population and are the second largest ethnic group, the Hazara and the Uzbeks, who each make up about 9% of the population.

Notice the key missing element, the 42% Pashtun. It is time for the ISAF to ensure that the 42% are not sidelined due to age-old political divisions. That might annoy many in the present Afghan government, they might feel that they've won the right to rule the old-fashioned way, militarily, but it is something that must be ensured if true democracy is the intent.

In other words, if you wish a stable Afghanistan, you must pay attention to the largest ethnic group, the Pashtun. There are many experts in your very own country that have said the same. These experts are far more knowledgeable than I am, and most importantly of all, they've been involved in Afghanistan as members of the militarily or as journalists.

Too bad Pakistan hasn't taken any interest in promoting solid ties with the MAJORITY of Afghans...you know? The 58% that AREN'T pashtu.

We did, way back in the 80s, and so did you. Then you left and times changed, and we were left with two choices; make peace with our neighbors or risk sidelining our own Pashtun populace. We chose the lesser of the two evils, as you and everybody else would have.

Though, I agree, Pakistan must implement Confidence Building Measures to win back the support of the majority of the Afghan populace, regardless of ethnicity. I don't buy the so-called "polls" that have come out, but I have little doubt there is resentment on both sides.

 

[Kompromat]

It it happens it will be a great start to the new year and peace in Pakistan.

if we can achieve our objective through peacefull means then why the heck would we fight.

 

[Gazzi]

This will never happen, the Mehsud tribe in broken in many factions, nonetheless, they are all related to each other in one way or another and their family bonds are stronger here. They will not surrender anyone.

 

[SparklingCrescent]

Militants warn Mehsuds against returning home


PESHAWAR: Thousands of Mehsud people who have left their native towns because of the ongoing military operation have been warned by militants not to return to South Waziristan.

A pamphlet circulated by the Mehsud chapter of Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan has asked the tribesmen to avoid returning to the territory for their own safety, because of the fighting taking place there.

The displaced Mehsuds — numbering 293,000 according to UN estimates — find themselves in a bind as the government also has imposed conditions which they will have to meet before being allowed to go home.

The pamphlet also asked Khasadars, a tribal police force, and contractors belonging to the Mehsud tribe to avoid serving on pickets and bringing in machinery and labour into the territory.

“The decisions,” it said, “had been taken for the protection of life, honour and property of the Mehsud tribe.”

Uneasy over prospects of Mehsuds’ capitulation to the government, the TTP leadership has circulated handbills in the last two weeks, hoping that they would not succumb to pressures and continue to support them.

As if this was not enough, a bewildered Mehsud tribal jirga has been told by the political administration that unless they met four key conditions their return to South Waziristan would be ‘nigh impossible’.

The four demands handed down to the 400-strong jirga of Mehsud tribal elders are:

• Unconditional surrender of 392 Mehsud militants, including the TTP chief Hakimullah Mehsud;

• Guarantee that they would not allow parallel administrative and judicial system in their territory;

• Change their rivaj (value) system to deny sanctuary to foreigners and any person from the settled districts wanted by the state, except those who seek protection because of tribal feuds, and;

• There will be no heavy weapons in the area.

A senior administration official said it was heartening to note that the tribal jirga had met despite TTP’s warnings.

“We thought they would be too scared to come to the jirga. But they did come and in good number,” a senior official said.

The jirga, he said, supported the military operation “as inevitable” and endorsed all conditions as per the local rivaj.

But the tribal elders said they would be in a position to meet the government’s demands only when they went back home.

“They are smart people,” the official said. “We told them we want them to give us guarantees and working mechanism. They have to tell us how they would ensure the implementation of those conditions. They have to do that we can trust them,” the official said.

The general plan, according to the official, was to start the process of repatriating Mehsuds by April.

But repatriation would have to be put on hold to pressurise Mehsuds to agree to the conditions and come up with a workable implementation plan.

Traditionally, Mehsuds migrate to Tank and Dera Ismail Khan to escape biting cold in the rugged mountainous area and return home by spring.

But with repatriation uncertain, the displaced Mehsuds, who are either living with their relatives or in rented houses, are in a quandary.




DAWN.COM | Front Page | Militants warn Mehsuds against returning home






I dont think this would last long, U.S is probably digging its nose in this business right now...

 

[EjazR]

False hopes created by reports of Mehsud Jirga’s pledge

Tribal elders say they cannot ensure militants’ surrender

Friday, January 22, 2010
By Mushtaq Yusufzai

PESHAWAR: The false reports about the ìpledgeî by Mehsud tribal elders to hand over the most-wanted Taliban commanders to the government opened a Pandora’s box on Thursday, with people asking whether they were really capable of fulfilling their commitment or it was meant to avoid the wrath of the armed forces.

South Waziristan Political Agent Shahab Ali Shah had called a Jirga of around 300 Mehsud tribal elders to the highly-fortified political compound in Tank to press them to make a promise for handing over 378 wanted militants, including the leader of the banned Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) Hakimullah Mehsud, to the government.

No doubt the Mehsud tribal elders pledged to extend their support to the government’s war against the militants, but the elders said none of them had made the promise to hand over the most wanted Taliban leaders to the government.

“How can we surrender Hakimullah and his dreaded men to the government? It is not possible even if we want to do so,” remarked a prominent Mehsud tribal elder who attended the traditional Jirga on Wednesday in Tank.

Like other members of the Jirga comprising “Dre Mahsud” (three Mahsud tribes) — Balolzai, Shaman Khel and Manzai — South Waziristan chieftain Malik Mehsud Ahmad Abdullay was also surprised by the banner headlines in national dailies about their claim.

Mehsud tribal elders asked how they could make such an “irrational” promise with the government about taking on militants at a time when their tribe had been evicted from their homes and were hundreds of miles away from their villages. The elders said they held a series of meetings with Political Agent Shahab Ali Shah and asked him and other senior government and military functionaries to pave the way for return of thousands of Mehsud families to their homes in South Waziristan.

“The political agent wanted us to make a promise about handing over TTP head Hakimullah Mehsud and his men to the government but we told him it was not the proper time for such a silly demand,” said a Mehsud tribal elder who requested anonymity.

The elder said they knew it was not the way to tackle a very complicated matter involving a large conflict but it seemed the political agent wanted to please his boss in Peshawar. The political agent had put forward seven conditions before the Jirga for ensuring peace and harmony in Waziristan and given January 20, 2010 as deadline. The conditions included surrender of 378 wanted persons, ban on display of arms, acceptance of the FCR’s collective responsibility clause and abstaining from sheltering foreign militants.

 

[Kompromat]

@ Ejaz R.

If they would not surrender then they must be prepared to meet their fellows in Jahanum.

 

[EjazR]

^^^

I think you missed the point. The elders are saying they don't have the power to make them surrender. They are not even in Waziristan but are internal refugees displaced from their land.

Probably the political agent wanted to get a propaganda leverage but he should have taken the tribesmen into confidence before making such a statement in the press that the tribesmen will handover TTP when clearly they can't. Not because they don't want but because they don't have the power to do so.

 

[Kompromat]

^^^

I think you missed the point. The elders are saying they don't have the power to make them surrender. They are not even in Waziristan but are internal refugees displaced from their land.

Probably the political agent wanted to get a propaganda leverage but he should have taken the tribesmen into confidence before making such a statement in the press that the tribesmen will handover TTP when clearly they can't. Not because they don't want but because they don't have the power to do so.

This is what i am saying no matter under what circumstances elders are and if they do not have power to Hand them to Pakistan to face our justice.

Then their(Taliban's) bodies would be found in those very rocky mountains where they Plan to destabilize our beloved Pakistan to make Their Indian and CIA Fathers Happy.

I wish these Taliban would have been a country , we could have Nuked them but anyway after dealing with them there would be a turn to deal with their Proxy war Lords.

We will chase them to the doors of hell & we will give a treatment to their masters too

 

[Gazzi]

This is what i am saying no matter under what circumstances elders are and if they do not have power to Hand them to Pakistan to face our justice.

Then their(Taliban's) bodies would be found in those very rocky mountains where they Plan to destabilize our beloved Pakistan to make Their Indian and CIA Fathers Happy.

I wish these Taliban would have been a country , we could have Nuked them but anyway after dealing with them there would be a turn to deal with their Proxy war Lords.

We will chase them to the doors of hell & we will give a treatment to their masters too

Hakimullah Mehsud reminds me of the saying

"He that fights and runs away, may turn and fight another day; but he that is in battle slain, will never rise to fight again." -- Tacitus

A reply by Pakistan would be that we will continue to hunt him and find him dead or alive.....Pakistan knows what is at stake and any terrorist who has attacked Pakistan on the scale that these guys have should never be negotiated with. No matter what they can offer, these guys, whether they got help from Indian RAW or not, although it would add salt to injury, shows they will collaborate with anyone and their loyalties lay elsewhere. They can never be trusted and should be hunted down, as it will be never known when they will stab Pakistan in the back.

They have been weakened dramatically, and to allow them to return with agreements only allows them to consolidate their positions and regain what they had lost, meaning, they can cause the same carnage again before they are dislodged, but would effectively make an assault on them by PA much more diffcult.

Therefore PA should keep the momentum going and take out these bandits in its territory, however do make the distinction between those who are our friends and those who that are not.

India and the US would just love Pakistan to paint all of these tribal people as terrorists, and PA should know where its interests lay.

 

[S-2]

"...the US would just love Pakistan to paint all of these tribal people as terrorists..."

I won't speak for India. EjazR does a superb job of such, IMHO, but I will say that America carries no such desire to see your government paint all these tribal citizens as terrorists.

Were it true, I hardly doubt you'd see America contribute aid to your IDPs. Afterall, are they not from FATAville? This war has been an unbearable hardship for those of SWAT, Buner, SWA and, before all, Bajaur. We know that. In some ways even more unbearable than what the afghan populace has endured since 2001 or further back.

Robert Gates spoke as forthrightly and honestly as he could to the climate of conspiracy abounding in your country. We are not your enemy. Were we, you'd know in a manner most inimitable and onerous. We are QUITE capable of making war on our avowed enemies. Pakistan is not such.

I hope you'll reconsider your perspective here.

Thanks.

 

[Gazzi]

"...the US would just love Pakistan to paint all of these tribal people as terrorists..."

I won't speak for India. EjazR does a superb job of such, IMHO, but I will say that America carries no such desire to see your government paint all these tribal citizens as terrorists.

Were it true, I hardly doubt you'd see America contribute aid to your IDPs. Afterall, are they not from FATAville? This war has been an unbearable hardship for those of SWAT, Buner, SWA and, before all, Bajaur. We know that. In some ways even more unbearable than what the afghan populace has endured since 2001 or further back.

Robert Gates spoke as forthrightly and honestly as he could to the climate of conspiracy abounding in your country. We are not your enemy. Were we, you'd know in a manner most inimitable and onerous. We are QUITE capable of making war on our avowed enemies. Pakistan is not such.

I hope you'll reconsider your perspective here.

Thanks.

S-2, no no no, the US is only misunderstood, You may have served as an Officer in the Artillery, I too have served in the British armed forces along side the US.

I have worked with US forces first hand and know of the burning hatred they have for Muslims and Islam.

Hence, quite clear how the US would treat other Muslim countries. This hatred stems up the chain.

As Bush said in his own word "we will win this crusade"

 

[S-2]

"I have worked with US forces first hand and know of the burning hatred they have for Muslims and Islam."

I'm sorry to read your distortionist views. They are absolutist but somehow don't reflect my views nor those whom I know serving. By the way, we've over 3557 identified muslim-Americans serving in our armed forces. Those numbers could be much higher as we've no requirement to declare your religious affiliation. Virtually all serve with great valor and dignity. Allow me to present to you one such soldier-

Afghan Interpreter Pays A Personal Price-L.A. Times Jan. 20, 2010

I think you're callously wrong and willful in your intent to distort. Too bad.

Here's another. I keep three photos of a young muslim-American lieutenant- 1st Lieutenant Mohsin A. Nagvi who gave his life in Afghanistan as a constant reminder of the sacrifice made by all for my country.

So, pardon me, but to hell with your slimy and self-serving view. You don't know sh!t about America.

Thanks.

 

[Gazzi]

"I have worked with US forces first hand and know of the burning hatred they have for Muslims and Islam."

I'm sorry to read your distortionist views. They are absolutist but somehow don't reflect my views nor those whom I know serving. By the way, we've over 3557 identified muslim-Americans serving in our armed forces. Those numbers could be much higher as we've no requirement to declare your religious affiliation. Virtually all serve with great valor and dignity. Allow me to present to you one such soldier-

Afghan Interpreter Pays A Personal Price-L.A. Times Jan. 20, 2010

I think you're callously wrong and willful in your intent to distort. Too bad.

Here's another. I keep three photos of a young muslim-American lieutenant- 1st Lieutenant Mohsin A. Nagvi who gave his life in Afghanistan as a constant reminder of the sacrifice made by all for my country.

So, pardon me, but to hell with your slimy and self-serving view. You don't know sh!t about America.

Thanks.

Your talking out of your slimy sly American a5s to say the least dude.

I have worked first hand and know the kind of sh!t your slimy leadership is.

Oh, I see you have tended to ignore the "we will win this crusade" bit. Coming from the head of the State itself.....goes to show the rest of your leadership views, sums it right up.

Anyways, showing me a photo of dead soldiers doesn;t prove crap....it was your greedy leadership who went to an unlawful war.....the evidence of 9/11 which was the pretence to go to war in the first place is laughable at best. A school child could see that... see below

http://spktruth2power.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/physics911pentagon.jpg

simple physics......

Oh, and lets go through the photos of dead Afghans shall we....we'll come to that later as it is going somewhat off topic.....

So please, if you wish to up the stakes with your diarrhoea mouth then go right ahead, just dont cry fowl when I drag dead US troops and civilians into it. So please watch what you say.

-------

As for the money US is given, as you pointed out, let me see, US goes to War in Afghanistan, evidence for 911 is laughable at best, US spends over 1 trillions dollars, and still going, and it gives Pakistan, a front line country, which it dragged into this war 1 billion dollars a year thinking that will suffice.....let me think, mathetmatics wasn;t my strong subject always..

 

[S-2]

I see you didn't manage to read the article. I didn't think that you would. I don't know what you did but I doubt you worked with us for long. We've no problem with Islam. We do have problems with ignorance.

You seem to qualify.

Given your absolute condemation of our forces, it isn't surprising that you've backed yourself into a rhetorical corner when faced with a different perspective that won't fit your pre-conceived narrative. I don't know who you are but I've a solid view of the L.A. Times and have no reason to doubt their very public story. Their credibility is on the line.

Yours seems rather oblique and hidden. I know who I'll trust and it isn't you.

I think you and I are done now.

Thanks.

 

[Gazzi]

I see you didn't manage to read the article. I didn't think that you would. I don't know what you did but I doubt you worked with us for long. We've no problem with Islam. We do have problems with ignorance.

You seem to qualify.

Given your absolute condemation of our forces, it isn't surprising that you've backed yourself into a rhetorical corner when faced with a different perspective that won't fit your pre-conceived narrative. I don't know who you are but I've a solid view of the L.A. Times and have no reason to doubt their very public story. Their credibility is on the line.

Yours seems rather oblique and hidden. I know who I'll trust and it isn't you.

I think you and I are done now.

Thanks.

You sound like a child who just wants to get the last word in......I have made several points in my last post, either answer them or just shut the hell up and crawl back to your burrow dude....

---------

As for the US war on terror, let me say that not all roads lead to Rome in this instance.........

Pkaistan should get rid of this Mehsud dude, and mine its entire border heavily, then work on getting rid of the US from Afghanistan, who are already talking about running with their tail between their legs anyway, so I wouldn't believe a word spoken by Mr Gates. This will be a repeat of the late 80s and 90s for Pakistan.

It is these Americans that bought the ideology of Jihad (which by the way only means to strive and struggle, not holy war) into the tribal areas of Pakistan during the 80s and then f***ed off leaving this beast within Pakistan's midst to deal with. Not considering the fact that if the Soveits couldn;t contain it then how in God's name will Pakistan.

But noooooo.......it didn;t serve America's agenda, therefore no need. And you talk about

"

So, pardon me, but to hell with your slimy and self-serving view. You don't know sh!t about America.

I think I have a pretty good picture of America, so thanks............

Now Sir, you and I are done