H-1B visa: Indian IT companies seem like latest Donald Trump casualty

[randomradio]

Sir, if the Indians pay 20% more for Iphone than they should buy a different product? I am not sure how to answer it. No one's putting a gun to anyone's head to "must buy the IPhone".

What I mean is, people who want to buy something will pay the extra money.

Second, Sir, you don't know my past or present. I know everything good, bad and ugly about this H1B visa system. I don't want to come across insulting. But this thing has brought so much corruption to the US, to employ Indian labor. So whatever the reasons may be, at this point, this thing has become number 1 killer of American jobs. Many politicians even sympathize with India and they won't name this (and so do I, which is why I said, let me not talk about it). But if we don't get a handle on our own generation's future, our future will be gone. We'll become like a simple country, instead of a powerful nation. For that, we need to make sure, we take care of our American citizens' careers first, legal residents, etc, that included people of all colors and races.

The problem is companies simply don't care about what you think. A 'real' company wants slave labour and not pay taxes.

Second, each corporate spends millions of dollars every year on stupid crap like "Fire Hazard Training" or "How to Give First Aid". I can watch that crap on youtube for free. If the same millions and some more, are sent towards retraining your employees for Tech jobs, or other careers that are "hot, instead of getting foreign labor, you wouldn't need anyone from the outside.

Unfortunately for them, it is laws that prevent them from having slave labour or avoid taxes.

So 'crap' like that was created to save lives, not by the companies, but by govt agencies like the fire department and the medical department. And the companies are expected to invest in this by law.

It is the responsibility of the individual to train himself in new technologies. In the tech industry, you can become outdated in only a few years.

At this point, we are pretty self sufficient so we can take care of our future ourselves. When need be (at a 40-45% tax bracket and non-expense write-off), companies are welcome to go get the necessary labor from the Philippines, India, China, etc. No problem with this type of an arrangement.

Companies are already paying 55% in taxes in the US. If you tax them anymore, they will just move their headquarters and then export to the US at lower tariffs through the bilateral FTAs that the US has with many countries. By law, Trump cannot increase import tariffs beyond 15%, so he will have to change laws by going through the Congress, and the Congress may not share all of his ideals.

You see, these companies would rather move to India, China, ASEAN or the EU and sell to a larger population base and export to the US. So once these other larger economies become more mature, companies will have the option of moving, chasing profits. And increasing protectionism in the US will force other countries to resort to protectionism which will only hasten the exit of these companies from the US.

If the US signs a FTA with Vietnam, and China does the same with Vietnam, then the company will move to Vietnam and sell to both without facing the issue of taxes in either country.

Just like how you have freedoms enshrined in your constitution, the companies have freedoms too.

 

[DJ_Viper]

What I mean is, people who want to buy something will pay the extra money.

That's any product, anywhere. Has nothing to do with IPhone being purchased in India Sir, as you used it as an example to my post about keeping jobs in the US!

The problem is companies simply don't care about what you think. A 'real' company wants slave labour and not pay taxes.

Well, a "real" company also has a "real system" that made it a company (called the country or the economy). I can't imagine what would Apple be today if it had been operating in Somalia or in a Small country like the Malta . So if one company wants to take advantage of the system and the economy to make hundreds of billions of dollar, it has to respect the laws of that country and the social responsibility its under as the people of that country bought its products.


Plus, they pay Taxes in India, China and elsewhere too. The main issue has become the fact that many of the foreign labor supliers bribe and do all illegal things to put their people to work. The hiring managers and recruiters in the US, turn their head the other way, ignore the locals and hire foreigners in herds. A few people for their greed, are causing millions to suffer. That is not allowed.

Companies are already paying 55% in taxes in the US. If you tax them anymore.

Sir, no company pays 55% taxes . Hell, the big ones don't even pay 5% taxes. I told you, you don't know me so its fine. Doesn't mean that I am stupid or without a brain. I've given a lot of time to a lot of things in life. Companies like GE and others, they spend billions in opening up new "innovation centers" in India and China. But they filed $ 0.00 taxes from 2006 till 2011 when the entire globe was going through financial crisis. But their offshore operations were profitable but they didn't have to "report it" because it was a write off. End the write off shiit, let them pay 30% on these foreign profits, I can assure you, they will be back in the US like they never left.

I'd appreciate it if we quit talking back and forth like Children. I am a lot more well versed in this topic so there is no magic word you can say that would fade away the facts or suffering of millions of Americans losing homes in the financial crises, while the only one buying, included majority of the foreign labor. Go figure. Thanks

 

[Tiger Genie]

We are in 2016 entering 2017 soon. Let me give you both Indian and American perspectives.

Impact on India
In 2014 India's IT BPO industries turned > $150B over in sales.

Assuming Indians got 60K of the 65K annual H1B quota AND average H1B salary of 75K AND that each H1B holder stays in that category for 4 years:
Total annual H1B salary to Indian holders = 4 * 60000 * 75000 = $18B.
So if not a single H1B visa job is given to an Indian, total loss to India is around 10%
And if this results in even a dozen really smart people staying in India (frankly out of 60K H1B visas, I'd assume may be 10% are exceptional, making it aroudn 6K). That 12 people will create the 18B in no time.
Why? because unlike the 90s, now India is the home of the third largest number of startups in the world.
And do not forget India is also the fastest growing economy in the world.
Bottom line, it will be net positive for India

Impact on the US
Traditional IT jobs are going away. In 5 years from now a large number of low level programming jobs won't be necessary. There is enough algorithmic development talent in the US. The model that is becoming more and more prevalent is that every company ends up distributing its talent pools among the US, India, China and either Israel or Europe. That is how global companies operate.

So whatever lower level programming jobs exist in five years they will be easily absorbed by Americans. (By lower level I mean run of the mill developers).

In other words it will be a small net positive for the USA.

There is a bigger play

And I hope that is where we are headed. Reduce H1b or re-purpose it only for exceptional skills meaning: real science and engineering. This will immediately draw whole bunches of truly great Indian, European, Chinese scholars and super-charge our laboratories. Not that we lack them now but this will super charge.

There are literally tens of thousands of Phds doing real science in Univ Beijing and similar - America has to change and super charge its scientific base. This is an opportunity.

 

[Kaniska]

Last Modified: Tue, Nov 29 2016. 05 07 AM IST

H-1B visa: Indian IT companies seem like latest Donald Trump casualty
Among Donald Trump’s early priorities is the H-1B programme, under which 65,000 temporary workers are allowed to work in the US each year
Figuring out which of his campaign promises Donald Trump is going to cheerily ignore once in office is a large and flourishing industry at the moment. But whatever the fate of climate change negotiations or a special prosecutor for Hillary Clinton, one theme of his campaign appears to have carried through into his transition: opposition to the current US work-visa scheme. That’s bad news for innovation in Silicon Valley. It may be worse news for India.

Among Trump’s early priorities, according to a video he released on YouTube, would be directing “the Department of Labor to investigate all abuses of visa programs that undercut the American worker.” That’s a pretty direct attack on the H-1B programme, under which 65,000 temporary workers—and 20,000 with advanced degrees in tech-related fields from American universities—are allowed to work in the US each year. (Various renewals and country-specific exemptions mean the total number of temporary workers is higher.)

Even so, you could reasonably ask if those words mean what they appear to mean, since Trump has a history of flip-flopping on this issue, sometimes within hours.

Fortunately, a more explicit commitment from the president-elect than his own words is available. And that’s his appointment of Senator Jeff Sessions as the next US attorney general. Sessions is one of the most hardline voices on immigration you can find—and he has reserved particular ire for the H-1B programme. Indeed, he tried to effectively gut it last year, in legislation he co-sponsored with Senator Ted Cruz. Sessions also co-wrote a letter to then-AG Eric Holder—and two of his Cabinet colleagues—demanding an investigation into “abuse” of the program by “some large, well-known, publicly-traded corporations.” (In another sign of how nativism unites the extreme right and the radical left in the US, the letter was co-signed by a certain Senator Sanders.)

So it’s almost certain that the H-1B programme won’t survive in its current form. What could replace it?

Well, one idea floating around is to ensure that any temporary workers earn a pretty hefty wage—the figure in the Cruz-Sessions bill was $110,000 a year. Another is to replace the current lottery system with an auction, again keeping out lower-paid engineers. But it’s entirely possible that the next administration will want to go even further. Trump’s chief strategist, Steve Bannon, for example, has lamented the fact that “two-thirds or three-quarters of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia.”

It’s important to note that a good number of those executives began at the bottom—Google’s Sundar Pichai or Microsoft’s Satya Nadella are unlikely to have pulled in the big bucks when they first came out of graduate school. It’s near-impossible to design an immigration system that selects only the highest-paid and still protects the inventiveness and meritocracy that has made Silicon Valley the centre of the tech world. Half of all technology start-ups in the US are founded by immigrants. Like all forms of protectionism, the Bannon-Sessions vision would lower standards and reduce productivity, eventually causing the US to lose the edge—and the income—that comes with being the undisputed champion of innovation.

The other big loser, of course, will be India. The behemoths of the Indian IT industry—companies like Infosys and Tata Consultancy Services—are already struggling with a business model that technological change might have made obsolete. But they’re still dependent on H-1B visas: The list of top applicants under the program reads like the directory of a Bangalore office park. For these companies, getting temporary employees to directly service their clients in the US used to be crucial. It was the most efficient way to provide IT services, and drove growth and profitability for both vendor and client. Trump’s policies will accelerate their decline, unless they learn to adapt a lot quicker than they have in the past.

And finally, what of that much-loved figure, the Indian software guy in the US? For years, getting an H-1B was the second-highest aspiration for a graduate of one of India’s many engineering schools—beaten in the hierarchy of needs only by the key to the Garden of Eden, the green card. It isn’t a simple matter of more money, incidentally—many H-1B hopefuls imagine that going to America will mean they can change tracks, and wind up doing more interesting and productive work than is typically available back home. The H-1B has been such a staple of Indian middle-class dreams for so long, I can’t even imagine what will replace it once it’s gone. Bloomberg

Mihir Sharma

http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/rEL...-companies-seem-like-latest-Donald-Trump.html

Nothing wrong with it. We have to understand that no one is obstructing genuine candidates but most of the politicians from US are fed with Indian offshoring companies who just replace current employee with cheaper resource from India and other South Asian nations. This has to stop.

It sounds like good news to India. It will slow down and eventually stop India's serious brain drain problem. Indian talents should stay in India to build their own country, instead of being proud being a H1B laborer in foreign company.

To be honest, in last 7-8 month, i am trying to hire multiple position in my team. But is also a fact, that the talented and best kids out of college in India are reluctant to come to Indian outsourcing firms or they even like to come to US. Indian job market is very very good enough for best kinds to continue in Bangalore and Hyd to pursue his career. Only the average kids who are neither too bad nor best in the breed is interested to come to US in the current generation.

We are in 2016 entering 2017 soon. Let me give you both Indian and American perspectives.

Impact on India
In 2014 India's IT BPO industries turned > $150B over in sales.

Assuming Indians got 60K of the 65K annual H1B quota AND average H1B salary of 75K AND that each H1B holder stays in that category for 4 years:
Total annual H1B salary to Indian holders = 4 * 60000 * 75000 = $18B.
So if not a single H1B visa job is given to an Indian, total loss to India is around 10%
And if this results in even a dozen really smart people staying in India (frankly out of 60K H1B visas, I'd assume may be 10% are exceptional, making it aroudn 6K). That 12 people will create the 18B in no time.
Why? because unlike the 90s, now India is the home of the third largest number of startups in the world.
And do not forget India is also the fastest growing economy in the world.
Bottom line, it will be net positive for India

Impact on the US
Traditional IT jobs are going away. In 5 years from now a large number of low level programming jobs won't be necessary. There is enough algorithmic development talent in the US. The model that is becoming more and more prevalent is that every company ends up distributing its talent pools among the US, India, China and either Israel or Europe. That is how global companies operate.

So whatever lower level programming jobs exist in five years they will be easily absorbed by Americans. (By lower level I mean run of the mill developers).

In other words it will be a small net positive for the USA.

There is a bigger play

And I hope that is where we are headed. Reduce H1b or re-purpose it only for exceptional skills meaning: real science and engineering. This will immediately draw whole bunches of truly great Indian, European, Chinese scholars and super-charge our laboratories. Not that we lack them now but this will super charge.

There are literally tens of thousands of Phds doing real science in Univ Beijing and similar - America has to change and super charge its scientific base. This is an opportunity.

Spot on....Indian economy is not dependent on H1B not only US IT market...It is just an traditional misconception that is always perceived.

 

[DJ_Viper]

But the point to be noted here is that, all thse guys have experience of about 4-5 years in top most IT firms of India, and they are usually best ones from there teams.

And not only The experience and work quality, they actually get less paid than the Local workers of the Host country with same experience.
And obviously they work hard so as to get extension on work visas and eventually get the Green Card.

So, in the end, Its the company that gets the most out if this model. They pay less, mostly get more work done.

Sir, I am a big fan of Indian population's work ethic. I've seen it in my previous life in some industry. Indian and Pakistanis, both work very very hard. So I like your work ethic and there is nothing wrong with it, in fact its a great thing to have.

On working in foreign countries and getting paid less, well, allow me to tell you if you already didn't know. The "foreign countries" you went to work for, the US, the UK, Australia, etc, all pay high dollars for IT and other educated jobs. In fact, more than they pay to local Americans. But, there is an Indian company working as a Middle Man. That company takes the real check from the Western employer, keeps a big chunk of money and pays you little. So your problem should be with your Indian "handler". Not with the West.

And frankly speaking, I don't mind us bringing people from outside when there is a need. But not at the expense of American people. But that has been happening for the past decade at the least and it needs to stop and reversed. We need our own middle class up and running again, students who graduated since 2008, have been suffering with higher degrees and lower paying jobs, etc, etc. All of this needs to be fixed and jobs need to be given to the US population first. This isn't much to ask.

 

[Kaniska]

Sir, I am a big fan of Indian population's work ethic. I've seen it in my previous life in some industry. Indian and Pakistanis, both work very very hard. So I like your work ethic and there is nothing wrong with it, in fact its a great thing to have.

On working in foreign countries and getting paid less, well, allow me to tell you if you already didn't know. The "foreign countries" you went to work for, the US, the UK, Australia, etc, all pay high dollars for IT and other educated jobs. In fact, more than they pay to local Americans. But, there is an Indian company working as a Middle Man. That company takes the real check from the Western employer, keeps a big chunk of money and pays you little. So your problem should be with your Indian "handler". Not with the West.

And frankly speaking, I don't mind us bringing people from outside when there is a need. But not at the expense of American people. But that has been happening for the past decade at the least and it needs to stop and reversed. We need our own middle class up and running again, students who graduated since 2008, have been suffering with higher degrees and lower paying jobs, etc, etc. All of this needs to be fixed and jobs need to be given to the US population first. This isn't much to ask.

Spot on, Actually, the middle man employer and the corporate Boss who may be a Western person, settle everything between each other, other elements in the supply chain just feeds into them, so that the Western Manager and the middle man Indian company become richer each day.

It is also a fact that Indian companies when charge less for any Job, they are encouraged highly by the corporate stakeholder who are Western people. For them, even they even do not think about their country man, when they outsource the job to Indian companies.

 

[randomradio]

Well, a "real" company also has a "real system" that made it a company (called the country or the economy). I can't imagine what would Apple be today if it had been operating in Somalia or in a Small country like the Malta . So if one company wants to take advantage of the system and the economy to make hundreds of billions of dollar, it has to respect the laws of that country and the social responsibility its under as the people of that country bought its products.

They are respecting the laws of the country. But they also have to respect the laws set in the WTO. And they have to follow the laws of other countries as well.

Plus, they pay Taxes in India, China and elsewhere too. The main issue has become the fact that many of the foreign labor supliers bribe and do all illegal things to put their people to work. The hiring managers and recruiters in the US, turn their head the other way, ignore the locals and hire foreigners in herds. A few people for their greed, are causing millions to suffer. That is not allowed.

You can stamp the illegal hiring. That's actually fine because it means more important and capable people in India will get a higher chance. I'm all for curbing the H1B for cheap labour. But you also have to consider the fact that the cheap labour can move to India also.

The thing is I don't think you know how cheap the labour in India really is. A college graduate at IBM gets paid $175 a month in India. If the Federal Govt threatens to cut a company's margins, they will simply threaten to leave. So you need to find a balance between how well you manage the influx of cheap labour and the company's margins. Don't forget that Trump will be under huge pressure to accept Indian labour from the Indian govt also. A lot of this is being done at the global level, and Trump will be hard-pressed to find new allies.

Basically, if you stop India's greatest exports, human capital, it will lead to a downgrade in India's ties. And so on.

Sir, no company pays 55% taxes . Hell, the big ones don't even pay 5% taxes. I told you, you don't know me so its fine. Doesn't mean that I am stupid or without a brain. I've given a lot of time to a lot of things in life. Companies like GE and others, they spend billions in opening up new "innovation centers" in India and China. But they filed $ 0.00 taxes from 2006 till 2011 when the entire globe was going through financial crisis. But their offshore operations were profitable but they didn't have to "report it" because it was a write off. End the write off shiit, let them pay 30% on these foreign profits, I can assure you, they will be back in the US like they never left.

Completely wrong.

This is 2010. The taxes that some of the biggest companies paid.
http://www.forbes.com/2011/04/13/ge...iness-washington-corporate-taxes_slide_2.html

http://www.forbes.com/2011/04/13/ge-exxon-walmart-apple-business-washington-corporate-taxes.html

http://fortune.com/2011/04/04/the-truth-about-ges-tax-bill/

And you can only tax profits. If a company doesn't make profits, you can't tax them.

And you forget that apart from federal taxes, companies pay state taxes also. Corporate state taxes come up to anywhere between 7% and 9%.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/15/taxes-chased-ge-out-of-connecticut-commentary.html
Massachusetts? It dropped its corporate tax to 8 percent from 9.5 percent and has a flat income tax of 5.15 percent. Connecticut, on the other hand, jacked its corporate tax to 9 percent from 7.5 percent and its top income-tax rate to 6.99 percent from 5 percent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_income_tax

I'd appreciate it if we quit talking back and forth like Children. I am a lot more well versed in this topic so there is no magic word you can say that would fade away the facts or suffering of millions of Americans losing homes in the financial crises, while the only one buying, included majority of the foreign labor. Go figure. Thanks

You can't tax a company's foreign earnings either because the US has no jurisdiction in other countries. That's why Trump wants to allow these companies to bring their earnings into the US with only a 10% tax. If you talk about taxing the foreign company's earning's then they will never bring that money anywhere close to the US. And legally, you can't simply tax a company's domestic earnings in lieu simply because they also have foreign earnings.

You want car production back in the US, you can do that in a heartbeat. Stick import duties on the cars and production will come back to the US. But you want programming back in the US, you can't because companies have too many loopholes. There are tax havens, and other nations that have the jobs will protect them as well. Programming isn't a product, it's a service. Plus, you can't stick import duties on this. For example, Microsoft will stop making DVDs and expect everybody to download Windows 10. You can't tax that.

Trump's strategy is to bring back jobs to America by reducing tax rates. What you are saying is the exact opposite of what he is trying to do. So one of his first moves will be to reduce rates to 15% from the standard 35%. As for penalties for imports of services, that will never work.

 

[friendly_troll96]

Indian IT expert cheating skype interview
@Areesh @war&peace @lastofthepatriots @long_ @Djinn @DESERT FIGHTER @Hell hound

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

There is no bad news for innovation for the Silicon Valley. This is the right thing to do. Sadly, there is too much fraud and favoritism in this industry across the US. There are many Indian executives now and they flat out refuse to hire from the local population and use Indian / other offshore companies to bring labor to India.

At this time, there is plenty of labor in the US (including naturalized Indian population) that we can easily continue marching in the tech sector without problems. So the Silicon Valley can still grow, by using the locals. Its that simple.

Any nation in this circumstances, will be losing precious revenue and will have a higher unemployment rate. There are dozens of law suits every month on this topic and millions of complaints. So just like in India, China or elsewhere, they want to hire the locals first, the US has a right to ensure that the US citizens and legal residents, who pay a pretty penny in taxes all their lives, will get a fair shot at getting employment. This is a standard process any or every nation would and should follow.

Our kids go through schools and colleges, take out heavy loans, finish degrees and then be jobless, ending up defaulting on student loans, resulting in income inequality and are forced to have financial stress and lower paying jobs. While labor from India (and some from other countries) come in and have no student loans, and start making "big bucks" from day 1 (literally). How unfair is this to Americans?

My post isn't about race or "I hate Indians", as I have many Indian and other ethnic friends, they are good and smart people. It is just that as a country, we need to do a better job at putting our own kids to work first. I hope Mr. Trump focuses on it, otherwise, our next generation is doomed. If he really wants to "Make America Great Again", you start by making sure "All Americans Have Great Jobs Again". I am sure he is smart enough to know that and would do his part to grow our country financially.

Don't have to be polite just tell Indian go back home , stop taking US jobs
All Indian executives hire thru slave labour companies (sweat shop middle companies)

They got their own sweet deals taking place under the table and money getting deposited in their Indian Bank accounts while the CEO live in USA away from US taxation system

If you see someone with fake visa and in USA report them to US authorities if they are replacing US workers with Indian workers claiming no one in USA wants to take job

It's like a high quality prostitution ring, fake statements and lies to US government , while no effort is made to hire locally

H1B was not mean to be abused for fake hirings 200,000 visas every year

These indians are all cunning and fox like , they will cry their crocodile tears when something happens to them while in their own country they are biggest abusers of Human Rights issues

Show them the exit door !!!

Big Banking scandles breaking out also in Canada , recently one again Indian management involved in illecit practices

iNDIAN ceo encouraging emoployees to break ethical laws , this scandal is quite recent and blowing up in north america
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/td-bank-employees-admit-to-breaking-law-1.4016569

lol Dumb arses were forcing Senior Citizens to move the financial assets into high interest accounts (Without actually telling the customers) .........and various other illegal financial practices

You won't see Indian CEO or Director show his face on camera to admit he is involved will always put someone from local community (White person) infront for damage control , while he pulls the strings from side


GET THAT WALL UP PRONTO !!! THEY ARE INVADING

 

[Chhatrapati]

Don't have to be polite just tell Indian go back home , stop taking US jobs
All Indian executives hire thru slave labour companies (sweat shop middle companies)

They got their own sweet deals taking place under the table and money getting deposited in their Indian Bank accounts while the CEO live in USA away from US taxation system

If you see someone with fake visa and in USA report them to US authorities if they are replacing US workers with Indian workers claiming no one in USA wants to take job

It's like a high quality prostitution ring, fake statements and lies to US government , while no effort is made to hire locally

H1B was not mean to be abused for fake hirings 200,000 visas every year

These indians are all cunning and fox like , they will cry their crocodile tears when something happens to them while in their own country they are biggest abusers of Human Rights issues

Show them the exit door !!!

Big Banking scandles breaking out also in Canada , recently one again Indian management involved in illecit practices

iNDIAN ceo encouraging emoployees to break ethical laws , this scandal is quite recent and blowing up in north america
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/td-bank-employees-admit-to-breaking-law-1.4016569

lol Dumb arses were forcing Senior Citizens to move the financial assets into high interest accounts (Without actually telling the customers) .........and various other illegal financial practices

You won't see Indian CEO or Director show his face on camera to admit he is involved will always put someone from local community (White person) infront for damage control , while he pulls the strings from side


GET THAT WALL UP PRONTO !!! THEY ARE INVADING

Whatever you say dude. At least we don't kill people.
There is only few Indians who go for H1B visas. More people go for skilled labor visa these days. Which, USA is set to increase.
There is a reason why Indian's in USA earn an average $100K on an average.

 

[Russell]

There is only few Indians who go for H1B visas. More people go for skilled labor visa these days. Which, USA is set to increase.
There is a reason why Indian's in USA earn an average $100K on an average.

What are you talking about????

There are literally hundreds of thousands of Indians on H1B visa...90% of Indian IT professionals in the US are on H1B visas.