Gwadar port to be operational by year end :Chinese official

[That Guy]

I will not be posting any more Sir. Why? Because I am being threatened:



Adios!

Oh please, a pathetic excuse. You post a relevant reply, that's good quality, then you're fine. He asked for a date, nothing more.

All you're doing is finding excuses to shitpost, and not get in trouble.

I do not recall threatening you my friend so do share the report with me.
Just wanted the information to take our discussion forward.
I shall review and comment further.

Don't bother. @Oscar is right, there is no point to talking to him.

 

[SQ8]

Please share the date this report was published.
If possible, do also share a link where i can access this report.

Thanks in advance.

Here is the link to the official consultant "report" which is infact a master's thesis at Lund University.
http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=3224614&fileOId=3224623

Don't bother. @Oscar is right, there is no point to talking to him.

You can always find the supposed references (which the gentleman in his usual tactic has disguised as "official" and "consulting" reports) are generally from rather less astute or credible sources. Take the last link for e.g. .. its actually a Master's thesis from 2012.

Granted, it has some good sources but it maintains:

"As most previous research has been carried out before, there has been no data available as many of the infrastructure developments envisioned are hardly in place. The much promising revolution the Gwadar port was hoped to bring suffers dearly, and only literary work has been used to conclude the previous papers. The port is yet to deliver estimated performance, and therefore, there is hardly any data available that can measures its success or conclude otherwise. A serious lack of availability of information of any shipping data, or any relevant costs, tariffs or relevant variables is absent. There is a serious inconsistency in that data that is somewhat available. There is either minimal or no access to even nearby sources to retrieve any relevant information. Furthermore, a statistical assessment or implementation of economic models to determine Gwadar port’s effects on the overall economy of the country, as performance of the port in its current condition is not formidable to have macroeconomic effects. For these reasons, most of the research has been carried out via the internet or whatever any other resources could assist."

From: http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=3224614&fileOId=3224623

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@Syed.Ali.Haider

Hello Sir ; China ITSELF has bought another Operating and Ready port in Greece which will
be the main distribution Hub for China's merchandise export in Europe

http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/chinas-mediterranean-odyssey/

Gwadar will also be used ; But The Greek port fits in with the Road and Rail links that have been developed from China to Europe

The TERRAIN in the Kunjerab pass and the Karakoram mountains is very difficult
Add to it the road is closed for six months in a year due to rain ;snow fall ; landslides

The Tyranny of the terrain is the biggest limitation for the Quantity of goods
that can be transported via Gwadar

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Time will tell if it is going to be super success as you have said or turn into something else as the interest of UAE ports are at stake as well and do not forget the new port of Iran underdevelopment. India will succeed no matter what game your nation plays. If Pakistan is confident about its success than why are they proposing rail link between Gwadar and Chabahar.

Thats how we will take your beef away, its got nothing to do with confidence.

Add to it the road is closed for six months in a year due to rain ;snow fall ; landslides

Who told you that? That wasnt true even 10 years back when KKH wasnt extended enough in width .Right now it offers minimal blockade in case of mud slides., which gets cleared within hours - to a day or two depending upon how intensive it is.

 

[That Guy]

Here is the link to the official consultant "report" which is infact a master's thesis at Lund University.
http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=3224614&fileOId=3224623



You can always find the supposed references (which the gentleman in his usual tactic has disguised as "official" and "consulting" reports) are generally from rather less astute or credible sources. Take the last link for e.g. .. its actually a Master's thesis from 2012.

Granted, it has some good sources but it maintains:

"As most previous research has been carried out before, there has been no data available as many of the infrastructure developments envisioned are hardly in place. The much promising revolution the Gwadar port was hoped to bring suffers dearly, and only literary work has been used to conclude the previous papers. The port is yet to deliver estimated performance, and therefore, there is hardly any data available that can measures its success or conclude otherwise. A serious lack of availability of information of any shipping data, or any relevant costs, tariffs or relevant variables is absent. There is a serious inconsistency in that data that is somewhat available. There is either minimal or no access to even nearby sources to retrieve any relevant information. Furthermore, a statistical assessment or implementation of economic models to determine Gwadar port’s effects on the overall economy of the country, as performance of the port in its current condition is not formidable to have macroeconomic effects. For these reasons, most of the research has been carried out via the internet or whatever any other resources could assist."

From: http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=3224614&fileOId=3224623

Well, there you have it.

 

[All-Green]

Here is the link to the official consultant "report" which is infact a master's thesis at Lund University.
http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=3224614&fileOId=3224623



You can always find the supposed references (which the gentleman in his usual tactic has disguised as "official" and "consulting" reports) are generally from rather less astute or credible sources. Take the last link for e.g. .. its actually a Master's thesis from 2012.

Granted, it has some good sources but it maintains:

"As most previous research has been carried out before, there has been no data available as many of the infrastructure developments envisioned are hardly in place. The much promising revolution the Gwadar port was hoped to bring suffers dearly, and only literary work has been used to conclude the previous papers. The port is yet to deliver estimated performance, and therefore, there is hardly any data available that can measures its success or conclude otherwise. A serious lack of availability of information of any shipping data, or any relevant costs, tariffs or relevant variables is absent. There is a serious inconsistency in that data that is somewhat available. There is either minimal or no access to even nearby sources to retrieve any relevant information. Furthermore, a statistical assessment or implementation of economic models to determine Gwadar port’s effects on the overall economy of the country, as performance of the port in its current condition is not formidable to have macroeconomic effects. For these reasons, most of the research has been carried out via the internet or whatever any other resources could assist."

From: http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=3224614&fileOId=3224623

Thanks for the share Oscar.

This is what I suspected in terms of relevance.
While indeed a useful study, I do not think these reports are relevant as they predate CPEC commitment.
The CPEC is really something which took shape conceptually in 2013-2015.
The reports shared on this thread are mostly before this timeline and hence could not have encompassed the impact of this development project on Gwadar.

Once implemented, CPEC shall be able to induce significant growth in Gwadar due to land link enhancement with not only western China but with all nooks and corners of Pakistan which are currently not as well connected. The cost/time of goods import/export shall come down.
While CPEC and Gwadar shall enhance our export/import capability and capacity, the trade within Pakistan shall also see a major boost with our enhanced rail/road network reach/capacity.

With so much growth in facilities, we can see a huge positive change in Baluchistan which shall be a massive boon for the Pakistani State. A happy Baluchistan is perhaps something which is priceless in context of Pakistan.

Also, a very critical aspect being missed in terms of significance of Gwadar and CPEC for Pakistan is the potential to create a huge number of Jobs; both for CPEC infrastructure development and in operations of all entities created under CPEC.

Having said all of this, the benefits cannot be realized till this project is seriously focused upon and executed in a transparent and honest manner by our Government.

 

[VCheng]

@Syed.Ali.Haider

Hello Sir ; China ITSELF has bought another Operating and Ready port in Greece which will
be the main distribution Hub for China's merchandise export in Europe

http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/chinas-mediterranean-odyssey/

Gwadar will also be used ; But The Greek port fits in with the Road and Rail links that have been developed from China to Europe

The TERRAIN in the Kunjerab pass and the Karakoram mountains is very difficult
Add to it the road is closed for six months in a year due to rain ;snow fall ; landslides

The Tyranny of the terrain is the biggest limitation for the Quantity of goods
that can be transported via Gwadar

Here is the outline of the official report submitted to the Government of Pakistan by the consultants it hired for the Gawadar Port Project, Arthur Little:

http://www.iwinconflict.com/courses/1387397437_aurthur d. little Gwadar.pdf

(BTW: This report, dated 2006, is the plan that is being implemented NOW, so it is current.)

 

[salarsikander]

Gawadar is an important project for Pakistan to provide for an alternate port. But a major global trade route or hub for China, or anyone else, it will never be, since alternatives are better all around the region. That is all I am saying. Is there any incorrect in that?

And there is nothing wrong in presenting that is there?
we are looking after our interests and so it is in our interests to propagate it as such, as it is with every country.

I therefore propose create even more hype and get more players as we go along. I for one wouldnt reject unless I had some sort personal agenda

 

[That Guy]

@Stephen Cohen Don't get too excited, the report is extremely out of date, by 10 years.

Here is the outline of the official report submitted to the Government of Pakistan by the consultants it hired for the Gawadar Port Project, Arthur Little:

http://www.iwinconflict.com/courses/1387397437_aurthur d. little Gwadar.pdf

The report doesn't take into account CPEC, do you want to know why?

Your opinion is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

This report is 10 YEARS OLD, meaning it does not take any new development into consideration. In fact, the CPEC concept wasn't even invisioned during that time, nor the massive $46 billion dollar funding.

Did you even bother to read the report? Or did you just pick and choose, just you did with my comments? I'm betting you pick and chose.

 

[SQ8]

Did you even bother to read the report? Or did you just pick and choose, just you did with my comments? I'm betting you pick and chose.

I can guarantee you that is not the case. The posting pattern is typical of a "dump information" parroting technique. Basically, you just hop onto google; put in keywords like "Gwadar", "Failure", "Infeasible" .. skim through the first few links that make sense and voila.. copy and paste.. copy and paste.

 

[That Guy]

I can guarantee you that is not the case. The posting pattern is typical of a "dump information" parroting technique. Basically, you just hop onto google; put in keywords like "Gwadar", "Failure", "Infeasible" .. skim through the first few links that make sense and voila.. copy and paste.. copy and paste.

Such intellectual dishonesty is both obvious and infuriating. When someone doesn't know what they're talking about, but pretend they do, it gets on my nerves.

 

[Spectre]

No one should be hounded. @Syed.Ali.Haider may be disingenuous but that is an assumption we are making. The report posted though dated put up some good questions challenging the viability and macro-economic impact of Gwadar port and while @That Guy and @Oscar have correctly stated the new developments and geo-politics have expanded the scope of Gwadar port due to CPEC program Syed Ali's questions still remain.

We have seen no data (atleast which is posted in relevant threads) which can give detailed estimates(along with assumptions) regarding the potential volume of cargo. Such estimates and the calculations behind are usually made available for public undetakings. If such is the case I would be grateful if some can provide me with an xl sheet.

It would be much better if we have an informed debate with data rather than just firing blank shots based on perception and political leanings.

P.S. I have restricted the commentary to Gwadar Port. CPEC is a broader project and understandably details would be withheld.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Here is the outline of the official report submitted to the Government of Pakistan by the consultants it hired for the Gawadar Port Project, Arthur Little:

http://www.iwinconflict.com/courses/1387397437_aurthur d. little Gwadar.pdf

(BTW: This report, dated 2006, is the plan that is being implemented NOW, so it is current.)

How do you know that expert isn't an agent? We are living in interesting times..

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China is not in the business of losing money, especially when it comes to staggering sums of investment such as this.

If we invested such a large amount of money, we obviously believe strongly that this project will be a profitable one.

 

[VCheng]

No one should be hounded. @Syed.Ali.Haider may be disingenuous but that is an assumption we are making. The report posted though dated put up some good questions challenging the viability and macro-economic impact of Gwadar port and while @That Guy and @Oscar have correctly stated the new developments and geo-politics have expanded the scope of Gwadar port due to CPEC program Syed Ali's questions still remain.

We have seen no data (atleast which is posted in relevant threads) which can give detailed estimates(along with assumptions) regarding the potential volume of cargo. Such estimates and the calculations behind are usually made available for public undetakings. If such is the case I would be grateful if some can provide me with an xl sheet.

It would be much better if we have an informed debate with data rather than just firing blank shots based on perception and political leanings.

P.S. I have restricted the commentary to Gwadar Port. CPEC is a broader project and understandably details would be withheld.

Arthur D Little is consultant for the Gawadar Port project that is being implemented now. Their conclusions as posted above speak for themselves. No evidence to the contrary has been posted except claims combined with personal attacks. Their estimates of traffic volumes and the assumptions made are clear. Their recommendations for industrial development are listed. (Besides, distance and topography remain the same now as they were 10 or even 100 years ago.)