What's new

Gunmen kill five in Saudi Arabia, six suspects arrested.

Status
Not open for further replies.
As per wilki it's " pseudo sunni Extremst and a re "reform movement" to
restore "pure monotheistic worship ”

You do realise that Islam is actually built on Monotheism right? So calling for Monotheism means "Wahabi" now and is very distinct from other Islam? what do you mean exactly? Or as you said "As per wiki" which pretty much told me everything I need to know about the statement.

So again, you did not really bring a coherent answer to the question the only thing you said was "They are Muslim" and according to your previous post "They are not Muslim" and thus in reality what you said is "They are Muslims and thus they should not be considered Muslims" isn't that right?

Okay you have more time to try and refute me, and answer the questions I asked.
 
.
Apparently the mods have their thumbs up their asses because they are afraid if they don't toe the Iranian propaganda line they would get a backlash from our resident Shia extremists in the forum.

Let's give them some time but indeed it is strange that such a troll thread title was even allowed. I guess the double standards are obvious for all.

Speaking about Shias in KSA;

d9e4ab74adaea962d308f3633de9c851.jpg
Ashura Al Hussain
by Tayseer Alabyadh, on Flickr

cc7c7d051c9be488990eec7094ed461c.jpg
Ashura Al Hussain
by Tayseer Alabyadh, on Flickr

5049adb7f1fb6e563259839d340367c0.jpg
Ashura Al Hussain
by Tayseer Alabyadh, on Flickr

Ashura processions in KSA. From 2012 as can be seen.


a06d3a31ae0809620fa52e3b289c0d25.jpg


c62d623bcca0791a601011a19931c950.jpg


133338e2f160487d3f07056f57f2ddc1.jpg


d61527d4bf7c8419fbcc7d98e8466272.jpg


cde44c4c09c4d5ae9fbbd129a4535184.jpg


2614faa576d8b1b68527edb6b3b70084.jpg


Credit to @Arabian Legend for the photos once posted ages ago. Saves me the googling.:lol:
 
.
I know they are, they have the same rights as any Saudi citizen. You can't say the same for minorities in Iran. That being said, those processions which take place in public streets and involve self-flagellation need to go through local ministry to at least arrange permit for which streets/timing the processions will take place. And then there should be a debate if the flagellation processions can take place. That is my opinion.

Haman is being childish with his title. So when hundreds are killed within hours in Syria should we open threads titling them 'Rafidee terror attack'? You're better than that Haman. This imaginary 'Wahabi' thing is annoying. I've had people in public tell me Saudi's are 'wahabi''. I'm like wtf? There's no such thing.


"wahabi" is the current Iranian propaganda to discredit Saudi Arabia's image as an Islamic center and shift it towards itself, part of the propaganda is actually a Takfiri mentality which suggests that Wahabis are not Muslims at all. So who is the real Takfiris of this Equation I do ask.
 
.
Our Shia community has been celebrating Ashura since forever and never have they been attacked by anyone. Whether in the Eastern Province, Madinah or Najran etc.
The Saudi government has often been viewed as an active oppressor of Shias because of the funding of the wahabbi ideology which denounces the Shia faith.[28]

In 1988 fatwas passed by the country’s leading cleric, Abdul-Aziz ibn Baz denounced the Shias as apostates. Another by Abdul-Rahman al-Jibrin, a member of the Higher Council of Ulama is on record as saying

"Some people say that the rejectionists (Rafidha, i.e. Shia) are Muslims because they believe in God and his prophet, pray and fast. But I say they are heretics. They are the most vicious enemy of Muslims, who should be wary of their plots. They should be boycotted and expelled so that Muslims spared their evil."[29]

According to Vali Nasr, al-Jibrin's sanctioning of the killing of Shia was reiterated in Wahhabi religious literature as late as 2002.[3]

According to a 2009 Human Rights Watch report, Shia citizens in Saudi Arabia "face systematic discrimination in religion, education, justice, and employment".[30]

Saudi Arabia has no Shia cabinet ministers, mayors or police chiefs, according to another source, Vali Nasr, unlike other countries with sizable Shia populations (such as Iraq andLebanon) . Shia are kept out of "critical jobs" in the armed forces and the security services, and not one of the three hundred Shia girls’ schools in the Eastern Province has aShia principal.[3]

Pakistani columnist Mohammad Taqi has written that "the Saudi regime is also acutely aware that, in the final analysis, the Shiite grievances ... stem from socioeconomic deprivation, as a result of religious repression and political marginalization bordering on apartheid."[31]

Testifying before the US Congressional Human Rights Caucus, Ali al-Ahmed, Director of the Institute for Gulf Affairs, stated

"Saudi Arabia is a glaring example of religious apartheid. The religious institutions from government clerics to judges, to religious curriculums, and all religious instructions in media are restricted to the Wahhabi understanding of Islam, adhered to by less than 40% of the population. The Saudi government communized Islam, through its monopoly of both religious thoughts and practice. Wahhabi Islam is imposed and enforced on all Saudis regardless of their religious orientations. The Wahhabi sect does not tolerate other religious or ideological beliefs, Muslim or not. Religious symbols by Muslims, Christians, Jewish and other believers are all banned. The Saudi embassy in Washington is a living example of religious apartheid. In its 50 years, there has not been a single non-Sunni Muslim diplomat in the embassy. The branch of Imam Mohamed Bin Saud University in Fairfax, Virginia instructs its students that Shia Islam is a Jewish conspiracy."[32]

Suppression of religious practice[edit]
The Saudi government has refused to allow Shia teachers and students exemption from school to partake in activities for the Day of Ashura, one of the most important religious days for Shia Muslims which commemorates the martyrdom of Muhammad's grandson, Husayn bin Ali).[33] In 2009, during Ashura commencements, Shia religious and community leaders were arrested protesting against govt and chanting slogans against Wahhabis

Shiites are often banned from building mosques and other religious centers, and sometimes perform Friday prayers in various homes (Al-Hassan). In the Eastern city of Al-Khobar, whose population is predominately Shia, mosques and prayer centers were closed for sometime due to the political activities, beginning in July 2008 but they are now opened. Presently there are 81 Shia mosques in Al Khobar.[34] Saudi Arabia's religious police mandate prayers and all those in public buildings during prayer time are required to stop what they are doing to pray. Because there are minor differences between the way that Shiites and Sunnis pray and between prayer times, Shiites are forced to either pray the Sunni way or take a break from work.

In 2009 a group of Shiites on their way to perform hajj pilgrimage (one of the five pillars of Islam that all able-bodied Muslims are required to perform once in their lives) in Mecca were arrested by Saudi religious police due to the involvement in a protest against Saudi govt.[34] A fifteen-year-old pilgrim was shot in the chest and an unknown assailant stabbed a Shiite sheikh who played the major role in sparking up the clash between pilgrim and security forces in the back, shouting “Kill the rejectionist [Shia]”.[34]

Religious police have arrested Shia Women in the Eastern Province for matters as trivial as organizing classes for Quranic studies and selling clothing for religious ceremonies as they were involved in political activities which are not allowed in KSA.[34]

In the eastern city of Dammam where three quarters of the 400,000 residents are Shia, there are over 81 large mosques and few hundreds Mussallas, limited Shia call to prayer broadcast, couple of cemeteries for Shia.

In Medina[edit]
Shiite pilgrims go to Jannat al Baqi mainly to visit the grave of Fatima and Ahl al-Bayt who are buried in the cemetery of Jannat al-Baqi' but no visit of other great Sahabas in Islam. Many incidences of not following the rules of the place happened by Shiites in this region specifically resulting in the arrest which most of the times were released later.Shias and Sunni Hanafi Wahhabi Sha'afis Barelvis, and Dawoodi Bohra Ismailis usually pray near graves of Ahl al-Bayt but in Wahhabism this act is considered as Shirk. In Saudi Arabia, most of the people follow Quran and Sunnah which is called Wahhabism, So they do not allow anything which has not allowed by Quran and Sunnah like to pray near graves of Ahl al-Bayt in Jannat al Baqi.

Early 2009, several Shiites attacked into the grave of Fatima (who is daughter of Muhammad and the wife of Ali) and grabbed stones, sand and in order to make turbahs out of them which is totally not permissible according to Quran and Sunnah.

Late 2011, a Shiite citizen was charged for not following the law and involved with blasphemy and sentenced to 500 lashes and 2 years in jail; the latter sentence was later reduced.[35] Also late 2011, a prominent Shiite Canadian cleric, Usama al-Attar, was arrested as he insulted the great Sahabi and Khalifa Uthman ibn Affan ra and for criticizing the kingdom's handling of uprisings in Yemen and Bahrain.[36] He was released on the same day, declaring the arrest entirely unprovoked.[37]

Discrimination in education[edit]
Much of education in Saudi Arabia is based on Wahhabi religious material. From a very young age, students are taught that Shiites are not Muslims and that Shiism is a conspiracy hatched by the Jews, and so Shiites are worthy of death.[38] Government Wahhabi scholars, such as Abdulqader Shaibat al-Hamd, have proclaimed on state radio that Sunni Muslims must not “eat their [Shia] food, marry from them, or bury their dead in Muslims' graveyards”.[38]

The government has restricted the names that Shias can use for their children in an attempt to discourage them from showing their identity. Saudi textbooks are hostile to Shiism, often characterizing the faith as a form of heresy worse than Christianity and Judaism.

Because anti-Shia attitudes are engrained from an early age, they are passed down from generation to generation. This prejudice is found not only in textbooks (often characterizing the faith as a form of heresy worse than Christianity and Judaism[28][39]), but also within the teachers in the classroom, and even in the university setting.[38](Wahhabi) teachers frequently tell classrooms full of young Shia schoolchildren that they are heretics.[28][39] Teachers who proclaim that Shiites are atheists and deserve death have faced no repercussions for their actions, barely even receiving punishment.[38] At a seminar about the internet, held in King Abdulaziz City of Science and Technology, professor Dr. Bader Hmood Albader explained how the internet was beneficial to society, but at the same time there were many Shia websites proclaiming to be Muslim websites, which needed to be stopped.[38]

Discrimination in the Workforce[edit]
Much discrimination occurs in the Saudi workforce as well. Shiites are prohibited from becoming teachers of religious subjects, which constitute about half of the courses in secondary education.[38] Shiites cannot become principals of schools.[38] Some Shiites have become university professors but often face harassment from students and faculty alike.[38] Shiites are disqualified as witnesses in court, as Saudi Sunni sources cite the Shi'a practise of 'taqiyyah'- wherein it is permissible to lie in any circumstance against non-Shi'as. Shia cannot serve as judges in ordinary court, and are banned from gaining admission to military academies,[34] and from high-ranking government or security posts, including becoming pilots in Saudi Airlines.[40]

Amir Taheri quotes a Shi'ite businessman from Dhahran as saying "It is not normal that there are no Shi'ite army officers, ministers, governors, mayors and ambassadors in this kingdom. This form of religious apartheid is as intolerable as was apartheid based on race." [41]

Reactions[edit]
Human Rights Watch reports that Shiites want to be treated as equals and desire to be free from discrimination (Human Rights Watch). King Abdullah has attempted to bring Sunnis and Shiites together and advance towards religious tolerance. However, the country as whole has not moved forward and the Shia minority is still marginalized on a large scale.[34]

Ismaili[edit]
The much smaller Ismāʿīlī minority—also known as Seveners -- differ from the Twelver Shia in their acceptance of Isma'il ibn Jafar as the appointed spiritual successor (Imām), rather than Moosa Al Kazim. There are an estimated 100,000 of them living in the southern region of Najran next to Yemen.[42] They also have been subject to what Human Rights Watch calls "official discrimination," encompassing "government employment, religious practices, and the justice system".[43]

Following the clashes in April 2000, Saudi authorities imprisoned, tortured, and summarily sentenced hundreds of Ismailis, and transferred hundreds of Ismaili government employees outside the region. Underlying discriminatory practices have continued unabated.[43]

Unrest[edit]
In 1997 the director of the Ministry of Islamic Affairs opened an office in Najran for the purpose of propagating Wahhabi doctrine to the local Isma'ilis. Saudi official Sheik Ali Khursan declared Ismaelis to be infidels because they did not follow the Sunna and do not believe that the Qur'an is complete, stating `We don't eat their food, we don't intermarry with them, we should not pray for their dead or allow them to be buried in our cemeteries.`[42] In 1997 the Governor Prince Mish'al ordered police to prevent Ismaelis from performing prayers during the post-Ramadan Islamic festival of Eid al-Fitr. "Anti-Ismaeli campaigns resulted in many arrests and flogging."[42] In April 2000, responding to an Amnesty International campaign publicizing lack of religious freedom in Saudi Arabia, Ismaelis in Najran openly celebrated Ashura for the first time in many years. Shortly thereafter Saudi religious police "stormed a major Ismaeli mosque, seized many of its religious texts and arrested three clerics". Local Ismaelis, who are often armed, retaliated, firing on security forces and burning some of their vehicles. Approximately 40 people were killed and many more injured. Saudi Army reinforcements swept the area and made many arrests. [42][43]

Hundreds of Ismaeli government employees were transferred away from Najran. Sometime after August 2000, four Ismaeli high school student were "sentenced to two to four years in prison and 500 to 800 lashes for fighting with a Wahhabi teacher, who openly insulted their religious beliefs in front of other students in the classroom.

Shia Islam in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Wahabis attack Shias in Medina


Troll thread title made by a Kurdi troll
u are the most racist dummy i've ever seen anywhere on the planet ...

u reek of sectarianism and racism .

of course i create a thread like that u dumdum , u think i'll just pass on the news ? u killed my people and u should pay for it

wahhabi
 
.
What is this "Wahabi" you speak of, I never know of a single person such as "Wahabi". I only heard of it as a propaganda term by Shias to defame Saudis in part of their own disgusting and corrosive sectarian ambitions. Otherwise there is no such a thing.
its a Pure subcontinent term. it is meant in bad taste and commonly coined by Beralvi school of Sunni's in the subcontinent.
used for Deobandi sect specifically. although both follow Imam Abu Hanifa r.a
I tried to avoid it but people challenge me by saying they dont understand who I mean. and you find me using this term too. no matter how I try to avoid but something which one is raised saying is hard to let go. only found out from you that it was not a nice word. just like I didnt know that calling the people Qadyani was seen as bad for them and they prefer being called Ahmedis.
just like calling all jews Zionists is wrong.

@haman10 please change the thread name and take out the word wahabi its not helpful
 
. .
its a Pure subcontinent term. it is meant in bad taste and commonly coined by Beralvi school of Sunni's in the subcontinent.
used for Deobandi sect specifically. although both follow Imam Abu Hanifa r.a
I tried to avoid it but people challenge me by saying they dont understand who I mean. and you find me using this term too. no matter how I try to avoid but something which one is raised saying is hard to let go. only found out from you that it was not a nice word. just like I didnt know that calling the people Qadyani was seen as bad for them and they prefer being called Ahmedis.
just like calling all jews Zionists is wrong.

@haman10 please change the thread name and take out the word wahabi its not helpful


Haman is accusing all Saudis of killing his people the Shia, I find that extremely amusing, they are my people before they are his, they are Saudi and we share a country together and between us, they are not your people @haman10 they are more my people than they will ever be yours.

Oh and it was a rival family so it was just a criminal act not a sectarian one no matter how much you would like it to be @haman10 to fuel your culture of hatred.
 
.
Wahabi Wahabi Wahabi...... you said it bro......... @al-Hasani now teach me a lesson! :D

Btw, where is that Najdi Goat? :p:

its a Pure subcontinent term. it is meant in bad taste and commonly coined by Beralvi school of Sunni's in the subcontinent.
used for Deobandi sect specifically. although both follow Imam Abu Hanifa r.a
I tried to avoid it but people challenge me by saying they dont understand who I mean. and you find me using this term too. no matter how I try to avoid but something which one is raised saying is hard to let go. only found out from you that it was not a nice word. just like I didnt know that calling the people Qadyani was seen as bad for them and they prefer being called Ahmedis.
just like calling all jews Zionists is wrong.

@haman10 please change the thread name and take out the word wahabi its not helpful
 
.
Wahabi Wahabi Wahabi...... you said it bro......... @al-Hasani now teach me a lesson! :D

Btw, where is that Najdi Goat? :p:
even the West has picked up this term to describe strict sunni Islam
by the way I dont know if the goat has any Najdi origin.
 
.
He is an uber moron. No one has the right to label ordinary citizens of any nation as terrorists, however, everyone has the right to criticize and demonize bad policies of foreign powers, that have (historic), or aim to change (present) internal dynamics of a sovereign nation. On this account, I find both Iran and Saudia grossly guilty. What they do now is what actually matters, however, that too does not absolve them of the mess. So keep an open ear / open mind to be criticized!

Haman is accusing all Saudis of killing his people the Shia, I find that extremely amusing, they are my people before they are his, they are Saudi and we share a country together and between us, they are not your people @haman10 they are more my people than they will ever be yours.

Oh and it was a rival family so it was just a criminal act not a sectarian one no matter how much you would like it to be @haman10 to fuel your culture of hatred.
 
.
The extreme sectarian nature of the Wahhabi will only polarize the Saudi state, unless Al Saud does something about it.
Which they wouldnt, because they are the Wahhab's sugar-mommy.
 
.
He is an uber moron. No one has the right to label ordinary citizens of any nation as terrorists, however, everyone has the right to criticize and demonize bad policies of foreign powers, that have (historic), or aim to change (present) internal dynamics of a sovereign nation. On this account, I find both Iran and Saudia grossly guilty. What they do now is what actually matters, however, that too does not absolve them of the mess. So keep an open ear / open mind to be criticized!


I told you before, if there is something wrong in my country you will find me to be the first line in support of criticism, and I have done so in the past multiple times and I continue to do so to this day most recent of which was a few days ago and you can go and see for yourself.
 
.
Mate, don't say that..... @Mosamania may digest you calling all Saudi's as Wahabi's, however, calling Najdi goat as not indigenous to Najd, he may never forgive you! He may even send in the armies of evil-Wahabo-fascists to avenge the honor of them goats! :D

I dont know if the goat has any Najdi origin.
 
.
It is a Sunni-Shia conflict that is being brewed by elements within the house of Saud.. and the Iranians... exactly what the powers that be want. Let the idiots who braay the Kalima kill each other off.
 
.
The extreme sectarian nature of the Wahhabi will only polarize the Saudi state, unless Al Saud does something about it.
Which they wouldnt, because they are the Wahhab's sugar-mommy.

The extreme sectarian nature of the Rafidi will only polarize the Iranian state, unless Al-Khamenie do something about it.

Which they wouldn't because they are the Rafidi suger-mommy.
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom