Gun Ownership, Is it justified?

[sigatoka]

I don't think you want them using M4s. According to some of friends coming back from Iraq, those things jam with the slightest bit of grit in them. Now you have to break it down, clean it, etc. Most inconvenient in a firefight. Most of them try and get a backup AK-47 as soon as they get there.

Same with my AR-15 vs my SKS ( Norinco). I can abuse my SKS, I have to keep my AR very, very clean! The AR-15 (clean) is very accurate though. Just don't go deer hunting with it. You will destroy the meat!

Maybe an Israeli Tavor or the Chinese copy?

lol, i just saw Michael Moor's film bowling for Columbine. I had seen the Fareheight 911 before this one. (Farhengiht was pretty pathetic actually) but this other one was quite good.

Have u seen it, and what do you make of the arguments against your gun ownership?

 

[TexasJohn]

lol, i just saw Michael Moor's film bowling for Columbine. I had seen the Fareheight 911 before this one. (Farhengiht was pretty pathetic actually) but this other one was quite good.

Have u seen it, and what do you make of the arguments against your gun ownership?

I did see Farenhite 9/11 but not the other one. Here is my take on gun ownership ( and I am a member of NRA):

1. The right to bear arms is protected by the constitution.

2. You have to be responsible when you own a weapon. Before I ever fired a single round, I had to earn how to field strip and assemble it.

3. Texas has a concealed handgun license. To get one, you have to have a crime free record, have a FBI background check done, take lessons at the police range, and understand what the license entails. It is designed for self defense only, and you are required to reasonably warn an assilant when possible. It is also not a carte blance to carry a gat. You may not carry it in a bar, or any other place that clearly says, " no firearms permitted". Amusingly, being a "concealed gun" you cannot have it displayed or you go to jail. Also if you shoot someone with a gun other than the one you carry, you would have to explain that to a judge.

4. Guns don't kill people - bullets do!

Responible gun ownership, whether for hunting or defense is the right thing.

 

[Sid]

As a few members felt the need to discuss this issue, this new thread will deal with it from now onwards. Please remember that this is a sensitive topic and there are hardly any universal arguements for or against Gun Ownership.

Please talk with reference to the country that you intend to discuss as different countries have different circumstances that urge, coerce and tempt, ordinary civilians to take up arms, whether licensed or unlicensed.

 

[TexasJohn]

Thank you Sid for starting the thread. There was a deviation from the topic on the other one.

 

[sigatoka]

1. The right to bear arms is protected by the constitution.

4. Guns don't kill people - bullets do!

I thought the Bill of rights protected the ability of civilians to raise a militia, not specificially to carry arms. But do you believe there should be restrictions on the type of arms? I mean are you for civilians possessing RPGs and if not, why not.

4. Absolutely true, but guns can increase the ability of a person who loses it to kill many more people. For e.g. some employees who go on rampage (even though they purchase guns legally) would only be able to kill 3 people with knives but with guns they are able to kill many more. Bullets themselves are harmless without a gun to propell them.

p.s. from my POV private gun ownership makes sense only when nations are surrounded by powerful border enemies such that the civilian ownership acts as an added deterrent to invasion. Its unlikely that Mexico will or can invade U.S.

the argument for guns against criminals is flawed because it sets up strategic competition which ensures criminials get bigger guns and become more trigger happy.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

I have a .30-06 Remington Model 70 with a 8x Magneto scope. Your move.

 

[TexasJohn]

I thought the Bill of rights protected the ability of civilians to raise a militia, not specificially to carry arms. But do you believe there should be restrictions on the type of arms? I mean are you for civilians possessing RPGs and if not, why not. .

The second Amendment specifically states:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. No, civilians should not have RPGs, or even fully automatic firearms unless they have a proper Class license. That is only given to law enforcement and military as and when needed. Ex. Cop is no longer in the SWAT team, he does not need an UZI. It's the whole idea of a well regulated militia/ Police/ National Guard.

What would Joe Blow need an RPG for? Deer hunting? stopping a burglar? This way he would blow his meat up, and in the second case burn his house down!!

4. Absolutely true, but guns can increase the ability of a person who loses it to kill many more people. For e.g. some employees who go on rampage (even though they purchase guns legally) would only be able to kill 3 people with knives but with guns they are able to kill many more. Bullets themselves are harmless without a gun to propell them..

Possible, but gun ownership is not the root cause. It's all about social / personal issues and nutjobs. The postal dude usually has a history of prior mental disturbance. A drunk behind the wheel of a speeding car can also go nuts.

the argument for guns against criminals is flawed because it sets up strategic competition which ensures criminials get bigger guns and become more trigger happy.

I would disagree here. Criminals will always get the firepower they want. How else will you explain countries like Somalia, Afghanistan, or for that matter even India and Pakistan? ( pardon me for that!) If the goverment cannot/ will not control criminal elements and then ban law abiding citizens from owning guns on top of that, what is the man on the street supposed to do?

Do you want him to simply say " if you are going to be raped, just lie down and enjoy it?"

 

[TexasJohn]

I have a .30-06 Remington Model 70 with a 8x Magneto scope. Your move.

You go! Good no nonsense rifle. I used to have a Marlin 30/30 Lever action. Carry it all day without your arm falling off. great deer round!! plain old iron sights though.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

It's my general purpose deer/moose/bear gun. I like the range out to 800 yards (not meters). My groupings are 2.7 inches using Remington silvertips for the 1st 3 shots.

When compared to my old C1/FN-FAL or even the C7/M16, its damned light and I carry alot less ammo and I am far more lethal.

Give any criminal a MAC-10 and all the ammo he can shoot and I will trust myself with my good 70 and just the 5 rounds I normally carry. Guess you know who to bet on.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

I don't think you want them using M4s. According to some of friends coming back from Iraq, those things jam with the slightest bit of grit in them. Now you have to break it down, clean it, etc. Most inconvenient in a firefight. Most of them try and get a backup AK-47 as soon as they get there.

I've seen those After-Action Reports. The major problem is not the weapon but the maintenance. The Guards and Reserves don't do enough of it. The M4s in the RegForce are performing to standards.

 

[A.Rahman]

I have a .30-06 Remington Model 70 with a 8x Magneto scope. Your move.

Back home I had Kalashnikov

 

[Officer of Engineers]

I not only outrange you but I have alot more accuracy, a flatter trajectory, and about 20 times heavier ball, and a zillion times more powder.

 

[Sid]

I have seen Michael Moore's 'Bowling for Columbine' and that documentary (I guess we can call it one) makes a lot of sense. Gun ownership by ordinary civilians, in a country like the US is unjustified.

I couldn't believe it that they were handing out guns for opening a bank account and was equally shocked by the cold heartedness of the NRA leader.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Who decides who's allowed to have guns and who is not? The government? The very government elected by the people who wants guns?

Michael Moore is the best propagandist in the world.

 

[Averroes]

Michael is an excellent documentarian. Go back to your Fox news.