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Growing Pak-Russia defence ties trouble India

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ISLAMABAD: The mounting defence collaboration between Moscow and Islamabad, especially the lifting of the Russian embargo on arms supplies to Pakistan, has infuriated the Indian security establishment, which was opposing the sale of Mi-35 helicopters to Pakistan.

According to highly informed sources in the Pakistani security establishment, while setting aside the Indian opposition, the Putin administration had first lifted the embargo on Russian arms supplies to Pakistan in June this year. And now, in a major development, Moscow and Islamabad have moved forward by signing [on November 20, 2014] an ambitious agreement to expand defence and military ties, setting in motion a new era of teamwork between the former Cold War foes. The agreement was signed during an official visit by Russian Defence Minister General Sergey Shoygu with Defence Minister Khawaja Asif, who came down hard the other day on the US by describing it as an ‘untrustworthy friend’
.

According to the Pak-Russia agreement, details of which are still being kept secret by both sides, Russia has agreed to supply 20 Mi-35 attack helicopters to Pakistan. The Mi-35 is the export version of the Mi-24 helicopter gunship. Weighing 12 tonnes, the helicopter gunship also has a cargo area that can hold up to eight people besides carrying rockets, missiles, bombs as well as an automatic cannon.

First produced in 2005 by the Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant, the multi-role helicopter is equipped with the latest navigation system, multifunction displays, target sights system that includes a thermal imager and TV channels, laser range finder and location finder. The Mi-35 helicopter boasts enhanced flight capabilities and can be operated even in the mountainous terrain of the Waziristan region where a military operation is on. Once formalised, the Mi-35 helicopter supply deal would be the biggest Russian military sale to Pakistan, with the latter also have shown interest in buying the Mi-28NE Havoc attack helicopters, as well as surface-to-air missile systems. Officials from both countries are expected to meet up shortly to give final touches to their defence deal, while overlooking the Indian fury.

According to sources in the Pakistani security establishment, the Indian side had been making frantic efforts through diplomatic channels to stop Russia from lifting the embargo on its military supplies to Pakistan. The Indians started building up pressure on Moscow early this year when the Russians first hinted at the possibility of inking a defence deal with Pakistan. Russia has long been the largest supplier of arms to India, which is the world’s leading arms buyer. However, Russia finally announced in June this year to lift the ban on arms supplies to Pakistan which had been in force for almost two decades. The Russian move instantly strained relations with India, with New Delhi warning Moscow to review the decision if it wants to keep friendly ties with the South Asian nuclear power.

In their efforts to pressurise Moscow into scrapping its decision, the Indian diplomats had even reminded their Russian counterparts of a hard hitting statement made by Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on October 14, 2012 [during his official visit to India for talks with then-Indian External Affairs Minister SM Krishna]. Rogozin told the Indian media while answering a question: “You must understand that we do not deal with your enemies. We don’t deliver any arms to them. If you see otherwise, you may spit on my face. We never created problems for India on its frontiers as did by some other countries.”

However, the Russian approach towards Pakistan seems to be changing in the wake of the imminent withdrawal of US-led Allied Forces from Afghanistan. The Pakistani Foreign Office circles say the Russian decision indicates a paradigm shift in its foreign policy, a kind of move which one sees once in decades. According to them, when a state takes such a decision, it is not without considering the pros and cons of the matter — the strategic takeaways and the possible pitfalls. But, the compelling reason may be the key role Pakistan is set to play in the “post US-withdrawal Afghanistan”. Hence, keeping in view the declining US influence in the region, Russia is already making efforts for a Pakistan-China-Russia axis by reaching out to Pakistan and China in a bid to improve its economic ties and to secure its southern borders against the spread of rising Islamic fundamentalism.

The Foreign Office circles in Islamabad agree that Islamabad, Beijing and Moscow have a commonality of interest in a stable Afghanistan. According to them, while bearing in mind the looming withdrawal of the Nato forces from Afghanistan, Russia fears that state failure in Afghanistan could cause a spillover of the Islamic fundamentalism into Central Asia, which could reach up to the southern regions of Russia. And having already faced bloody secessionist movements in Chechnya and the South Caucasus, this is not a scenario that Moscow would welcome. Therefore, while realising that any successful resolution of the problems associated with Afghanistan must involve Pakistan, Moscow is keen on improving ties with Islamabad.

At the same time, Pakistan is already trying to diversify its foreign policy after decades of fighting the Russian policies at the behest of Americans. Islamabad’s excessive participation in the US-led war on terror led to noticeable shrinkage of the parameters of its foreign policy. The Foreign Office circles in Islamabad point out that the kind of assistance it received from the US since the 9/11 attacks did little good to its declining economy. Even on the military front, the Americans were non-cooperative. For instance, Pakistan has been seeking for almost a decade new helicopter gunships from the United States [rather than used stuff] as it wanted to replace the 35 American AH-1S and AH-1F gunships it already has. At least six of these helicopters have already been lost in the last few years in anti-terrorism operations in Pak-Afghan tribal belt where helicopter gunships are heavily used and frequently shot at. But the Americans refused to supply the required helicopters, thus forcing Pakistan to approach Russia for the purchase of Mi-35 helicopters which are equally good.

The decision makers, both in Islamabad and Moscow, seem to have learnt their lessons. Therefore, the two countries have finally decided not to remain hostage to how Washington and Delhi react to their warming of ties, which is a good omen not only for Pakistan and Russia but for the whole region.


Growing Pak-Russia defence ties trouble India - thenews.com.pk
 
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Pakistan's economy is flagging and its defense budget is a paltry $7 billion. In contrast India has a robust galloping economy with a defense budget of almost $50 billion. I doubt some advanced Russian weaponry can tilt the balance so much so that India feels threatened and out of place. India is now seriously pursuing her own military industrial complex and also importing heavily from the West. In such circumstances it is only natural that Russia too wants to expand her horizons. Besides, the emerging Russia-Pak relationship is purely economic in nature and a deep strategic relationship with Pakistan is highly unlikely considering that India still has deep ties with Russia.
 
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Poor guys .Creating so much sensation for a single visit :lol:
And we are going to sign a 40 billion $
Fighter deal.
so what? how much is population of India as compared to Pakistan? How much is area of your Country as compared to our? obviously india is bigger country then pakistan w.r.t area, population so also bigger economy. why acting like children..
 
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ISLAMABAD: The mounting defence collaboration between Moscow and Islamabad, especially the lifting of the Russian embargo on arms supplies to Pakistan, has infuriated the Indian security establishment, which was opposing the sale of Mi-35 helicopters to Pakistan.

According to highly informed sources in the Pakistani security establishment, while setting aside the Indian opposition, the Putin administration had first lifted the embargo on Russian arms supplies to Pakistan in June this year. And now, in a major development, Moscow and Islamabad have moved forward by signing [on November 20, 2014] an ambitious agreement to expand defence and military ties, setting in motion a new era of teamwork between the former Cold War foes. The agreement was signed during an official visit by Russian Defence Minister General Sergey Shoygu with Defence Minister Khawaja Asif, who came down hard the other day on the US by describing it as an ‘untrustworthy friend’
.

According to the Pak-Russia agreement, details of which are still being kept secret by both sides, Russia has agreed to supply 20 Mi-35 attack helicopters to Pakistan. The Mi-35 is the export version of the Mi-24 helicopter gunship. Weighing 12 tonnes, the helicopter gunship also has a cargo area that can hold up to eight people besides carrying rockets, missiles, bombs as well as an automatic cannon.

First produced in 2005 by the Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant, the multi-role helicopter is equipped with the latest navigation system, multifunction displays, target sights system that includes a thermal imager and TV channels, laser range finder and location finder. The Mi-35 helicopter boasts enhanced flight capabilities and can be operated even in the mountainous terrain of the Waziristan region where a military operation is on. Once formalised, the Mi-35 helicopter supply deal would be the biggest Russian military sale to Pakistan, with the latter also have shown interest in buying the Mi-28NE Havoc attack helicopters, as well as surface-to-air missile systems. Officials from both countries are expected to meet up shortly to give final touches to their defence deal, while overlooking the Indian fury.

According to sources in the Pakistani security establishment, the Indian side had been making frantic efforts through diplomatic channels to stop Russia from lifting the embargo on its military supplies to Pakistan. The Indians started building up pressure on Moscow early this year when the Russians first hinted at the possibility of inking a defence deal with Pakistan. Russia has long been the largest supplier of arms to India, which is the world’s leading arms buyer. However, Russia finally announced in June this year to lift the ban on arms supplies to Pakistan which had been in force for almost two decades. The Russian move instantly strained relations with India, with New Delhi warning Moscow to review the decision if it wants to keep friendly ties with the South Asian nuclear power.

In their efforts to pressurise Moscow into scrapping its decision, the Indian diplomats had even reminded their Russian counterparts of a hard hitting statement made by Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin on October 14, 2012 [during his official visit to India for talks with then-Indian External Affairs Minister SM Krishna]. Rogozin told the Indian media while answering a question: “You must understand that we do not deal with your enemies. We don’t deliver any arms to them. If you see otherwise, you may spit on my face. We never created problems for India on its frontiers as did by some other countries.”

However, the Russian approach towards Pakistan seems to be changing in the wake of the imminent withdrawal of US-led Allied Forces from Afghanistan. The Pakistani Foreign Office circles say the Russian decision indicates a paradigm shift in its foreign policy, a kind of move which one sees once in decades. According to them, when a state takes such a decision, it is not without considering the pros and cons of the matter — the strategic takeaways and the possible pitfalls. But, the compelling reason may be the key role Pakistan is set to play in the “post US-withdrawal Afghanistan”. Hence, keeping in view the declining US influence in the region, Russia is already making efforts for a Pakistan-China-Russia axis by reaching out to Pakistan and China in a bid to improve its economic ties and to secure its southern borders against the spread of rising Islamic fundamentalism.

The Foreign Office circles in Islamabad agree that Islamabad, Beijing and Moscow have a commonality of interest in a stable Afghanistan. According to them, while bearing in mind the looming withdrawal of the Nato forces from Afghanistan, Russia fears that state failure in Afghanistan could cause a spillover of the Islamic fundamentalism into Central Asia, which could reach up to the southern regions of Russia. And having already faced bloody secessionist movements in Chechnya and the South Caucasus, this is not a scenario that Moscow would welcome. Therefore, while realising that any successful resolution of the problems associated with Afghanistan must involve Pakistan, Moscow is keen on improving ties with Islamabad.

At the same time, Pakistan is already trying to diversify its foreign policy after decades of fighting the Russian policies at the behest of Americans. Islamabad’s excessive participation in the US-led war on terror led to noticeable shrinkage of the parameters of its foreign policy. The Foreign Office circles in Islamabad point out that the kind of assistance it received from the US since the 9/11 attacks did little good to its declining economy. Even on the military front, the Americans were non-cooperative. For instance, Pakistan has been seeking for almost a decade new helicopter gunships from the United States [rather than used stuff] as it wanted to replace the 35 American AH-1S and AH-1F gunships it already has. At least six of these helicopters have already been lost in the last few years in anti-terrorism operations in Pak-Afghan tribal belt where helicopter gunships are heavily used and frequently shot at. But the Americans refused to supply the required helicopters, thus forcing Pakistan to approach Russia for the purchase of Mi-35 helicopters which are equally good.

The decision makers, both in Islamabad and Moscow, seem to have learnt their lessons. Therefore, the two countries have finally decided not to remain hostage to how Washington and Delhi react to their warming of ties, which is a good omen not only for Pakistan and Russia but for the whole region.


Growing Pak-Russia defence ties trouble India - thenews.com.pk

1. these defence ties havnt even started, so why is India worried?
2. only 3 cobra gunships have been lost in WoT. the other 2 or 3 were 'accidents' during training and testing.

yes its true these helos are old and over-used.
 
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so what? how much is population of India as compared to Pakistan? How much is area of your Country as compared to our? obviously india is bigger country then pakistan w.r.t area, population so also bigger economy. why acting like children..


We dont have any problem.But sometimes your media response is that Pakistan is going to join some Anti West alliance of Russia.
They are completly ignoring the consequences behind these development
and also ignoring the deep strategic relationbetween India and Pakistan and also West especially US influence in your economy.
 
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so what? how much is population of India as compared to Pakistan? How much is area of your Country as compared to our? obviously india is bigger country then pakistan w.r.t area, population so also bigger economy. why acting like children..

Pakistan has the 6th largest population of any country in the world (after China, India, USA, Indonesia, and Brazil). You could have become the Germany of Asia but instead have become the Somalia of Asia. Why do you want to blame Pakistan's geography for its failures when geography has zilch to do with it?
 
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so what? how much is population of India as compared to Pakistan? How much is area of your Country as compared to our? obviously india is bigger country then pakistan w.r.t area, population so also bigger economy. why acting like children..
Exactly.....economically. . Pakistan won't be able to compete with India in bagging the deals and that will ensure Russia is loyal enuff to us in any military sales to Pakistan......

As the time passes by. . India will be reducing the imports and so the relationship will turn into something like Russia China friendship......
maybe in a decade ....the relationship between Pakistan and Russia will improve but it will be never the same as IndoRussia ties
 
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why does it worries india.
when india was cementing its ties with west, didnt russia warned of its repercussions. But india went ahead.
though it it is in indias prime interest to have good relations with west.

second, russia is no USSR. russian themselves, stood as the odd one out. and India payed with Vikramaditya deal, Ammo for T72 tanks, PAK FA and others.
As India is diversifying its military base, so is russia. these is nothing to be amused of. its pure geopolitics.:coffee:
 
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All the people bragging about india's super duper economy need to realize the failure of indian strategy of 1) Isolating Pakistan 2) Giving bigger defence deals to main supplier countries and putting conditions of denying Pakistan supply from the same. Now its becoming apparent that while you are big, you are not as big as you had hoped to be.
 
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Here is my post from 2009.....

Mark,

WZ-10 is not coming any time soon, Chinese will not export it until they fulfill their own requirement which could take 8 years.

As far as the purchase of T-129, it's pure speculation and there is no evidence to support that PA will go for it just because Turk are going for it. Pakistan is desperately trying to get moral and defense support from Russia but so far Russians are unwilling to provide any solid support due to Indian pressure. Pakistan want to diversity it's portfolio and want to try Russian military hardware. As far as MI-24/28/35 concerned, Pakistan requested these either directly or indirectly from Russia but request was denied.

1) Pakistan is not going to buy anything major from Russian.
2) Regardless what Pakistan purchase from Russia, It will not change Russian-Indian relationship.
 
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All the people bragging about india's super duper economy need to realize the failure of indian strategy of 1) Isolating Pakistan 2) Giving bigger defence deals to main supplier countries and putting conditions of denying Pakistan supply from the same. Now its becoming apparent that while you are big, you are not as big as you had hoped to be.
India imports annually arms and other stuff from Russia which is accounted for 15.7 billion last year's.come here when you get pocket to match that.Odd 20 helos are merely peanuts which attracts Russia in it bad economic situation but it's nowhere in scale of competing with India.
 
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India imports annually arms and other stuff from Russia which is accounted for 15.7 billion last year's.come here when you get pocket to match that.Odd 20 helos are merely peanuts which attracts Russia in it bad economic situation but it's nowhere in scale of competing with India.

Who says we are trying to out do india but on the other hand india has tried to block arms sales to Pakistan and failed. So keep sulking...
 
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Who says we are trying to out do india but on the other hand india has tried to block arms sales to Pakistan and failed. So keep sulking...
What is there in to sulk from 20 helos which commonly operated around the world which has no threat perception and strategic implications for india. which was about to being phased out from IAF itself.indian concerns are far to low in this matter no one even bother in MOD except few media enthusiastic journalists.Russians know how much in stake involved in relationship with India and where not to cross invisible line of faith . Russia - indo relationship have multidimensional levels more than 200 JV projects are on the table worth billions.perhaps you will see the glimpses of that in Putin visit in DEC.
 
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Who says we are trying to out do india but on the other hand india has tried to block arms sales to Pakistan and failed. So keep sulking...

char helicopter kya kharid liye tum to lage hawa me udne:D Indians ne bhi 35 Apaches kharida hai US or wo to Mi 35 se bahot advanced hain lekin hum itna nhi uchhal rhe hain jitna ke tum log:D
 
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