Growing Lashkar e Jhangvi (LJ) influence in Pakistan

[coffee_cup]

There aren't enough examples, there are mere far-fetched assumptions, inconclusive evidence and political rivalries mixed with genuine threats. The third largest political party doesn't work with the one of the most notorious banned organization of all time, especially with such ideological differences.

Ok lets have a look...

- Americans supporting Mullahs in Afghanista against Soviets
- Americans supporting AQ related groups against Asad
- Soviets supporting Mullahs of Iran and likes of Hizbullah

And when we talk about USA, we talk about the West in general. So yes there are more than enough examples in the world.

Talking about Pakistan now, MQM has been working with religious extremists, this has already been stated by their own arrested "workers", who together with these extremists killed people from both sides of the fence.

Top leadership of MQM are very shady characters who order their terrorists to kill people first and then disown the arrested workers, now do you need examples about that as well?


And no, MQM is not the third largest political party in Pakistan (if one accepts it as a political party at all). Based on what you make this claim?

 

[Secur]

Talking about Pakistan now, MQM has been working with religious extremists, this has already been stated by their own arrested "workers", who together with these extremists killed people from both sides of the fence.

Is there a link you can provide for this claim? Anyone prosecuted by a court of law for killing both Sunnis and Shias who also happens to be a proven MQM worker?

And when we talk about USA, we talk about the West in general. So yes there are more than enough examples in the world.

I agree that there are examples. I said relevant to this case. What interests are suitable for both MQM and this sectarian terrorist organization?

And no, MQM is not the third largest political party in Pakistan (if one accepts it as a political party at all). Based on what you make this claim?

How does your ranking go? Seats and influence in Karachi, Hyderabad and urban Sindh.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I am all for hanging all extremist Mullahs starting with Maulvi Burqa of Lal-Masjid. Our country can do much better without them.

But the point I was making about incidents such as Safoora is that sometimes things are not as black & white as they seem at the first glimpse. Very complex situation in Karachi where MQM is known for conducting false flag for such a long time, even killing their own workers (several arrested MQM workers have put light on this subject). And MQM's connection with the neighboring country are no secret as well. Even some of their top Rabita Committee members in London are indians with British passports.

of course and this is called the fog of war if you will
internal and external enemies will take advantage
those of you who are old enough like me might recall back in the days there was a copy cat massacre of a family in Hawaliay I am talking early 80s, it was attributed to hammer group ( Afghan/KGB terror outfit) but it turned out to be done by some members of the family.
likewise personal enmity , political rivalries and business disputes cloaked under sectarian attacks to and it appears that the sectarian/ religious terrorists dont really mind. I recall one interview of Hamid Gul where he mentioned a terror attack long time ago where there was no apparent sectarian, ethnic or political reason and that suggested a foreign hand just to cause a snowball effect in Karachi chaos.

some intellectuals say hey dont blame India because the terrorists are locals and known and they post confessional videos and make calls to our news channels (YES true) but RAW or any other hostile foreign entity wont send its own nationals and instead employ locals through indirect channels and middlemen.

by the way here is a prediction of next Indo-Pak stand off (forgive me Indians). Indians will mobilise their forces, start shooting at rangers and our military and villiagers and start shelling and some agressing combat patrols through a very convincing false flag?

how? employ few dimwits from Pakistan posing as kashmiri militants, train them etc and ease them into India via LoC or international border (while BSF is continently looking away). lead them to a metropolis and then either let them kill some insignificant innocent Indians before finishing them off through a "brave operation" or lead them to a historical monument and let them damage it superciliously and then kill them off bar one or two and then help the Indian web-force, social media, channels and anchors do the rest.

I mean if TTP and LeJ can convince our youth to come and massacre shias on the road sides or their places of worship or children at school in the name of Islam then why not again someone as ISIS or AL Qaeda convince the same youth to cross the border and do the same to Indians? the mindset of the "doe'r" doesnt care about the theatre, what he or she is interested is in the act...... the bloodier the better the virgin count in afterlifre

@Horus @MastanKhan @Hyperion @Secur @Abu Zolfiqar I know I am crazy but world is crazier.

 

[Shamain]

You cant differentiate between the third largest political party and a banned organization seriously?

If you are referring to me, at least have the courage to quote or mention me. Whats with this passive-aggressive behavior?

Oh no i am too awed by ur majesty (for being an mqm supporter)to even indirectly refer to you, subliminal messages or passive aggressive posts arent my thing. So plz dont worry when i make such posts and u are around.

In general whenever mqm and pmln posters are around they start defending their parties. And thats what
gets to me. Its the content that irks.

As of banned and unbanned argument,thats the reason i never quote any mqm supporter directly. They will always come up with almost any excuse to defend their party.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

There aren't enough examples, there are mere far-fetched assumptions, inconclusive evidence and political rivalries mixed with genuine threats. The third largest political party doesn't work with the one of the most notorious banned organization of all time, especially with such ideological differences.

The ones relevant in this case? What interests are suitable for both?



Is the new name for ASWJ. LeJ merely changed its name.

by the way did you listen to Faisal raza abdi (in one of his many programs with Dr shahid massod) where he blamed PPP leaders using LeJ (NOT Sihap Muhammad BUT known Anti Shia terrorist groups? he even named Qamar Zaman and Qaim Ali shah? I know his words might not be proof enough but its shocking that our so called secular parties also have secretly funded or used the sectarian terrorists

 

[Secur]

by the way did you listen to Faisal raza abdi (in one of his many programs with Dr shahid massod) where he blamed PPP leaders using LeJ (NOT Sihap Muhammad BUT known Anti Shia terrorist groups? he even named Qamar Zaman and Qaim Ali shah? I know his words might not be proof enough but its shocking that our so called secular parties also have secretly funded or used the sectarian terrorists

No, I haven't. I will look for it though now that you have mentioned it. But that doesn't seem believable for obvious reason, yes politics is dirty. However there is a constraint always imposed by ideological differences. How would anyone explain it? Its very easy to allege, to prove it anywhere is a whole other story. The reason is that PPP is primarily known as a Shia political party and Zardari as a Iranian loyalist, why would people who go berserk at the sight of the deviant sect choose to work with them? There is a possibility but it seems very far fetched, I might be biased though here.

 

[coffee_cup]

Is there a link you can provide for this claim? Anyone prosecuted by a court of law for killing both Sunnis and Shias who also happens to be a proven MQM worker?

Thanks for quoting few selective lines first.

What kind of evidence would do for you? Eye witness account? Testimony and confessions of the arrested and sentenced killers? Confiscation of illegal weapons from MQM strongholds? Hate speeches and enticement to violence and murder by MQM godfather Altaf Hussain? Testimonies of victims and their families? Reports in the foreign media? Intelligence reports which were made public such as by Wikileaks?

What kind of evidence would you call evidence? First let me know about that.

I agree that there are examples. I said relevant to this case. What interests are suitable for both MQM and this sectarian terrorist organization?

Good at least you agree that your blanket statement about seculars and religious fundos never working together were not correct.

How does your ranking go? Seats and influence in Karachi, Hyderabad and urban Sindh.

How about number of National Assembly seats, that would be a good indicator.

 

[Shamain]

how? employ few dimwits from Pakistan posing as kashmiri militants, train them etc and ease them into India via LoC or international border (while BSF is continently looking away). lead them to a metropolis and then either let them kill some insignificant innocent Indians before finishing them off through a "brave operation" or lead them to a historical monument and let them damage it superciliously and then kill them off bar one or two and then help the Indian web-force, social media, channels and anchors do the rest.

I mean if TTP and LeJ can convince our youth to come and massacre shias on the road sides or their places of worship or children at school in the name of Islam then why not again someone as ISIS or AL Qaeda convince the same youth to cross the border and do the same to Indians? the mindset of the "doe'r" doesnt care about the theatre, what he or she is interested is in the act...... the bloodier the better the virgin count in afterlifre

All this while what our rangers will be doing that those fake militants will be allowed to slip through border?

Even if our army sends infiltrators ,assuminnnnnngggggggggg for a while , they know what ppl they are sending.isnt our border with india fenced.

(Just my views >_< )

Some months back there was a attack in kathua in jammu,it looked like false op by indian forces to support AFSPA.

 

[Secur]

Thanks for quoting few selective lines first.

What kind of evidence would do for you? Eye witness account? Testimony and confessions of the arrested and sentenced killers? Confiscation of illegal weapons from MQM strongholds? Hate speeches and enticement to violence and murder by MQM godfather Altaf Hussain? Testimonies of victims and their families? Reports in the foreign media? Intelligence reports which were made public such as by Wikileaks?

What kind of evidence would you call evidence? First let me know about that.

Good at least you agree that your blanket statement about seculars and religious fundos never working together were not correct.

How about number of National Assembly seats, that would be a good indicator.

My definition of evidence is the same as the general one. Relax. Any of those once considered admission-able by a competent court of law and not biased JITs would count. And no, what you found at MQM stronghold 90 is the story of every single political party out there, feel free to raid elsewhere too. The story would be similar if not worse.

My point of view was limited to this country only. I wasn't trying to refer to the whole world.

Of course, whats it then? PML-N (190) PPP (46) MQM (24) PTI (33) Make it fourth.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

All this while what our rangers will be doing that those fake militants will be allowed to slip through border?

Even if our army sends infiltrators ,assuminnnnnngggggggggg for a while , they know what ppl they are sending.isnt our border with india fenced.

(Just my views >_< )

Some months back there was a attack in kathua in jammu,it looked like false op by indian forces to support AFSPA.

good point. but do you think our rangers and army can keep a watch over the entire 2,000 Miles plus border? if they do then yes this attempt will be foiled but what if they do it legally? hmm? go Dubai or Afghanistan legally and then fly there hmm?
I mentioned infiltration just in case the package needs to be disposed off right there and then.. depending how much Indians what to cook the story.

 

[Secur]

Oh no i am too awed by ur majesty (for being an mqm supporter)to even indirectly refer to you, subliminal messages or passive aggressive posts arent my thing. So plz dont worry when i make such posts and u are around.

In general whenever mqm and pmln posters are around they start defending their parties. And thats what
gets to me. Its the content that irks.

As of banned and unbanned argument,thats the reason i never quote any mqm supporter directly. They will always come up with almost any excuse to defend their party.

I have no problem with you referring to me or engaging me in a discussion. You are always free to do that, the simple point was that refer to me directly if you are making a point. Supporters of every political party defend their parties, does it seem strange to you?

So you agree that you were indirect. I don't come up with excuses, I will rather use logical reasoning and concrete evidence against anyone to get my message across than rely on mere bias and conspiracy theories. I remember the debate about Jinnahpur and a Major claims over its superiors, that wasn't an excuse it was a fact.

 

[coffee_cup]

of course and this is called the fog of war if you will
internal and external enemies will take advantage
those of you who are old enough like me might recall back in the days there was a copy cat massacre of a family in Hawaliay I am talking early 80s, it was attributed to hammer group ( Afghan/KGB terror outfit) but it turned out to be done by some members of the family.
likewise personal enmity , political rivalries and business disputes cloaked under sectarian attacks to and it appears that the sectarian/ religious terrorists dont really mind. I recall one interview of Hamid Gul where he mentioned a terror attack long time ago where there was no apparent sectarian, ethnic or political reason and that suggested a foreign hand just to cause a snowball effect in Karachi chaos.

some intellectuals say hey dont blame India because the terrorists are locals and known and they post confessional videos and make calls to our news channels (YES true) but RAW or any other hostile foreign entity wont send its own nationals and instead employ locals through indirect channels and middlemen.

by the way here is a prediction of next Indo-Pak stand off (forgive me Indians). Indians will mobilise their forces, start shooting at rangers and our military and villiagers and start shelling and some agressing combat patrols through a very convincing false flag?

how? employ few dimwits from Pakistan posing as kashmiri militants, train them etc and ease them into India via LoC or international border (while BSF is continently looking away). lead them to a metropolis and then either let them kill some insignificant innocent Indians before finishing them off through a "brave operation" or lead them to a historical monument and let them damage it superciliously and then kill them off bar one or two and then help the Indian web-force, social media, channels and anchors do the rest.

I mean if TTP and LeJ can convince our youth to come and massacre shias on the road sides or their places of worship or children at school in the name of Islam then why not again someone as ISIS or AL Qaeda convince the same youth to cross the border and do the same to Indians? the mindset of the "doe'r" doesnt care about the theatre, what he or she is interested is in the act...... the bloodier the better the virgin count in afterlifre

@Horus @MastanKhan @Hyperion @Secur @Abu Zolfiqar I know I am crazy but world is crazier.

I agree with your post to larger part.

Just with one point I don't agree. TTP (or LeJ, Jaish-e-Muhammed etc.) for that matter have killed everyone, be it Sunni, Shia, Christian, Hindu, Martian.... religion isn't the most motivating factor behind their terrorism (even though there might be some in their ranks who out of hatred would want to target one particular sect Shias or Sunnis). Money or power is the largest factor. Give enough money to TTP to kill one of their own leaders and you can bet that man be dead in no time. These are strange groups who are gathered under one ogranization - criminals, religious fundos, run-aways, brainwashed youth angry with their parents or system, political Mullahs etc etc.

There are more than 70,000 Pakistanis who have fallen victim to terrorism by these ba$tards. I don't have the statistics but I am willing to bet that more than half of them were Sunnis.

So lets keep it that way. Terrorism being spread in our country has just one motive - destabilize Pakistan. With whatever means necessary. It is not just against one sect.

 

[Secur]

Just with one point I don't agree. TTP (or LeJ, Jaish-e-Muhammed etc.) for that matter have killed everyone, be it Sunni, Shia, Christian, Hindu, Martian.... religion isn't the most motivating factor behind their terrorism (even though there might be some in their ranks who out of hatred would want to target one particular sect Shias or Sunnis).

Correction. They have killed everyone whom they found in their heads or by objective criterion to be disagreeing with their version of religion and methods, almost all terrorists organizations operating in the country follow radical Deobandi interpretation of religion. Do you think its a co-incidence by any chance? Or the fact that almost of the places of religious of worship targeted have been everyone else but not them? Religion is the most motivating factor for these animals, everywhere in the world. Whether it be Boko Haram, ISIS, Taliban or TTP.

 

[coffee_cup]

My definition of evidence is the same as the general one. Relax. Any of those once considered admission-able by a competent court of law and not biased JITs would count. And no, what you found at MQM stronghold 90 is the story of every single political party out there, feel free to raid elsewhere too. The story would be similar if not worse.

General evidence admissible and accepted in courts is of several types, some of them I have already mentioned.

And were it some other country than Pakistan, MQM would have been banned very long time ago based on the overwhelming evidence about murder and violence that goes against it. And no, it is no conspiracy by establisshment, international establishment, or people from Jupiter as Farooq Sattar and co would want us to believe,

My point of view was limited to this country only. I wasn't trying to refer to the whole world.

Yes janab, even in this country, strange bed fellows are found. Like MQM working together with ASWJ (LeJ) etc. Ask K2, Motta, Chotta, Lamba, Kana, however those murderers are called,

Of course, whats it then? PML-N (190) PPP (46) MQM (24) PTI (33) Make it fourth.

So then lets be fair and from now onwards call it 4th largest "political" party. Because this is what it is - 4th largest, not 3rd!

I am quite astonished how all the time on TV show MQM leaders blatantly call it what it is not. And their supporters on PDF are towing that line as well. Very far from reality!

 

[Hyperion]

Wrong my friend........ these people will stoop to any level unimaginable by a sane mind........... as Irfan pointed out in another post, it's only about the money and sectarianism is nothing but ONE of the tools!

I know of a prominent Shia family (with loads...loads......and shit loads of land holdings) whose 100+ members got butchered (bombs, target killing etc etc - you name it) in the past 5 years............ and all of it was framed under sectarian hate crimes, however, the reality was something quite different...... right now, Wazirs, Mehsuds, Powindahs have constructed shops and houses over their lands............ and remaining members of that family have moved to Islamabad, leaving back all their ancestral property....... I know of GAZILLION more such happening, however, they are all conveniently brushed under the carpet, under a file named "sectarianism"........

ITS ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY.... ALWAYS..........

there is a constraint always imposed by ideological differences